Where does it all stop?

[Cotcho]

I hate political correctness but many of us don't know what it is to walk in the shoes of a minority group. I don't even know what it's like to be picked on at school. The whole class did once laugh at me for something stupid and for days after, every time someone laughed I thought it was about me. That tiny tiny taste from one incident....which cant even be considered bullying was enough for me. For some people it is their whole lives...

Don't you guys understand that although that girl might not have meant to hurt the way she did, the fact that there are others out there making minorities or indigenous people feel like shit, means that for other people saying hurtful things without thought just simply can't. Yes....Adam Goodes may have been over sensitive but can you blame him? It is an insecurity on his behalf but can you blame him? More reason not to say it IMO. One day when all things are equal and people realise that everyone is the ****ing same, we can all laugh and have a joke about it. Until then it's just nasty and needs to stop.

 

[eays]

No, my research and history classes have told me how to react, and I react in response to the facts, and those are the facts. From the few Aboriginals that were left, we treated them like animals., I have nothing to apologise for either as my family didn't arrive till a similar time.

IF they happened? Mate we took their land, enslaved the ones we could, r*ped their women and called them apes. Those are the facts, do some history research before you post maybe.

Using we again in the 2nd last sentence ... Apologist.
Anyway lets not digress from the issue that ape has not been used as a racist term in this country and so we should keep that in mind. If it is from now on then so be it. I guess we can thank the yanks for this new taboo word ... Hang on is "yanks" racist or is that ok because we assume that refers only to "white" Americans and we can racially denigrate white folks, pasties etc freely ? And is calling a white person a dove now racist too? It offends me and my opinion counts as much as Adam Goodes doesn't it?

 

[chunkylover53]

Using we again in the 2nd last sentence ... Apologist.
Anyway lets not digress from the issue that ape has not been used as a racist term in this country and so we should keep that in mind. If it is from now on then so be it. I guess we can thank the yanks for this new taboo word ... Hang on is "yanks" racist or is that ok because we assume that refers only to "white" Americans and we can racially denigrate white folks, pasties etc freely ? And is calling a white person a dove now racist too? It offends me and my opinion counts as much as Adam Goodes doesn't it?

You have no hope, just don't get it. I'm out.

Back to footy now.

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

Anyway lets not digress from the issue that ape has not been used as a racist term in this country and so we should keep that in mind. If it is from now on then so be it. I guess we can thank the yanks for this new taboo word ... Hang on is "yanks" racist or is that ok because we assume that refers only to "white" Americans and we can racially denigrate white folks, pasties etc freely ? And is calling a white person a dove now racist too? It offends me and my opinion counts as much as Adam Goodes doesn't it?

Your assumption is wrong. It's naive to think nobody on Australian soil has used ape as a racial slur. You could substitute it with 'monkey' or any other less than human animal. It is less common these days but the negative underlying assumption is pretty clear!

Your opinion does not count as much as Adam Goodes'... Why? Because he's been highly educated on the topic, with all due respect.

You can't see why calling a white man a dove is any different to calling an indigenous man an ape? Come on, it's YOUR responsibility to learn about these things. You can do it.

 

[Cotcho]

Using we again in the 2nd last sentence ... Apologist.
Anyway lets not digress from the issue that ape has not been used as a racist term in this country and so we should keep that in mind. If it is from now on then so be it. I guess we can thank the yanks for this new taboo word ... Hang on is "yanks" racist or is that ok because we assume that refers only to "white" Americans and we can racially denigrate white folks, pasties etc freely ? And is calling a white person a dove now racist too? It offends me and my opinion counts as much as Adam Goodes doesn't it?

Hey mate, you have well thought out and well written comments. And whilst I agree with most of what you have written I have the opinion that we, as a society/species, give words their power. Words are just noise being projected from vibrating mucous membrane LOL...but those noises are used to communicate a meaning, which can be incredibly powerful.

It is sad that people take offence to such noises, as you have mentioned, and it is especially sad that offense can be taken when someone doesn't intend on hurting a person with their words. But at the end of the day, I don't believe that a term has to be "Main stream" or have a historical link to racism to be racist. And I disagree with your definition of racism...As I said, we give words their meaning, in society we say "racism" to basically mean making fun or having a crack at someone of a different heritage (knowing that we are all one race, the human race! Yerrrrrr!!) . That argument could be used to say that gay just means happy and doesnt mean homosexual....If someone takes it as meaning homo and you said it meaning homo it means homo...not happy. Not that they are necessarily independent of each other of course! That's just getting caught up in the detail.

I think many here are missing the point because half of you are saying...Ape isnt a racist term, I can call Jason Dunstall an ape and mean no offense and none is taken....and half are saying, yes it is because Goodesy is black and looks more like an ape and obviously we have to be very careful not to insult people who get a tough time, historically and currently.

The fact of the matter is, if that little girl intended on hurting Adam Goodes based on his heritage or skin colour etc....then it was a racist comment, whether it is main stream or whatever. And I guess we will never know. I am of the opinion that she did say it because of his race, to me it didnt appear to be a unfortunate observation! But I think this is the point where people are disagreeing.
The fact that Adam Goodes took it as a racist remark doesn't mean that it was a racist remark...it is merely a reminder to everyone how powerful words can be and how on edge people from specific minorities can be made to feel. Therefore special attention needs to be made to prevent stuff like that from happening.

 

[Grin]

Using we again in the 2nd last sentence ... Apologist.
Anyway lets not digress from the issue that ape has not been used as a racist term in this country and so we should keep that in mind. If it is from now on then so be it. I guess we can thank the yanks for this new taboo word ... Hang on is "yanks" racist or is that ok because we assume that refers only to "white" Americans and we can racially denigrate white folks, pasties etc freely ? And is calling a white person a dove now racist too? It offends me and my opinion counts as much as Adam Goodes doesn't it?

I don't know why anyone would bother wasting their time trying to explain to you what should be bleeding obvious.

You come across as beyond ignorant.

 

[courtjester]

Using we again in the 2nd last sentence ... Apologist.
Anyway lets not digress from the issue that ape has not been used as a racist term in this country and so we should keep that in mind. If it is from now on then so be it. I guess we can thank the yanks for this new taboo word ... Hang on is "yanks" racist or is that ok because we assume that refers only to "white" Americans and we can racially denigrate white folks, pasties etc freely ? And is calling a white person a dove now racist too? It offends me and my opinion counts as much as Adam Goodes doesn't it?

Grow up. Grow a brain. Or f**k off.

 

[Heisenberg_]

I don't know why anyone would bother wasting their time trying to explain to you what should be bleeding obvious.

You come across as beyond ignorant.

Showing how ignorant and uneducated he is, fact is the only people who don't find the word ape a racial slur are people that need to be educated on the subject.
As others have said look at the history of what indigenous Ausyralians have been through, some of Australia's history is an absolute disgrace, we had a white Australia policy up until the 70s and they weren't allowed to vote up until that time as well.
So don't go around telling people what they should and shouldn't find to be racist because you have no right until you walk a mile in his shoes. Just because it's not as offensive as some other racial slurs doesn't mean it's not offensive.

Another thing, although its generated some discussion, it's not really a thread worthy topic on a club board so I will be keeping a close eye on it and if it gets silly it will be closed.

 

[Damo80]

Yet if a white person is referred to as a Neanderthal (same general inference as the "ape" slur"), it would go largely unnoticed... just saying.

 

[Spagman]

Yet if a white person is referred to as a Neanderthal (same general inference as the "ape" slur"), it would go largely unnoticed... just saying.

I just don't understand how people don't see how that's completely different. I'm not being PC, but the 13 year old girl SHOULD have known that calling a black man an 'ape' would be extremely derogatory (if not knowing it's racist implications).

After I heard it happen, I asked my 13 year old son what he would think if he was black and someone called him an ape. He said if it was from a friend and light hearted, such as 'ya big ape' then obviously not, but from a random stranger, yelled out - at a sporting match, you could NOT take it as anything but a racist slur (thanks to history) until you knew all the elements around it.

IMHO about Eddie, yes it was a completely dumb thing to say. Was it racist? It's all about intent, and there was no racist intent. The media and some people are jumping over this like flies on shit.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy actually, clearly he had his mind preoccupied on something else, opened his mouth and wasn't even thinking about what he said. I think he mixed up 2 topics in his brain at the same time and blurted that shit out, while on auto pilot.

When you work 12-14 hours a day, plus do morning radio, its gonna catch up with you eventually.

But, that really is no excuse, he does not deserve to be fired from every source of income that he has. Some people act like he's bloody murdered someone. The hypocrites, social media torch bearers and journalists (that should know better) should really just back the f**k off a notch and stop over hyping stories like this.

I also don't think Harry O, and even Goodsey should have commented on Twitter about it. All Harry O has done has fuel the flames further. He meant well, but once the media get involved it's on for young and old and your intended message normally gets lost in the noise.

Oh and if Luke Darcy notices you've said something dumb, then you must have let rip with a real howler. I feel sorry for anyone in a situation that makes Luke Darcy the smartest guy in the room

 

[Grechy]

Also there is no way Collingwood would let Eddie go over this. No chance on the remotest part of hell.

 

[oi watch out]

UGHHHHHHHH

People that label this subject as 'politcal correctness gone mad' and 'hypersensitivity' are that thick they will never understand.
'oi yeah just get some thicker skin ya ******ed *** ape'.

Doomed.

 

[Roachy8]

There is a lot of vilification going on in this thread.

 

[Damo80]

I just don't understand how people don't see how that's completely different.

Different, perhaps, but how is it completely different?

The ape slur is derogatory because it suggests that person, or their race, is essentially primitive and/or less developed. Neanderthal has an identical implication. The only difference is whether it's applied on an individual basis, or used in a broader sense about an entire people group.

I do agree with your point re: intent. I'm sure we've all been at the footy and "vilified" players... even our own (especially our own, even). I don't condone racism, but in the case of the 13 year old girl, it strikes me as a passionate, heat of the moment outburst against an individual player. And while she used a racist term, she is quite possibly not racist, and I'm pretty sure it probably wasn't meant to be a slur against his heritage or race.

Eddie's on the other hand was just mind numbingly stupid.

 

[tigerfan11]

I made this post on the Collingwood board and felt it is also needed here.

Let me firstly say this: I am 100% against racism... real racism that is. We need a serious discussion from someone /a group at the top on what racism really is because few people have a clue. The sad thing is we know this will most likely not happen.


That being said, where does this over the top hypersensitivity to anything that can be remotely taken as racist stop? I dont post on bigfooty but feel that i need to here because this matter is quickly getting out of hand. Fact is very few people know what racism really is, and the ones that do are too fearful to speak up in fear of being labeled racists themselves. Would we even be having a discussion if an indigenous person called say, Darren Jolly a polar bear? The path we are currently on as a society is one where in the future it will be hard for a non-indigenous person to even have a conversation with an indigenous person because there literally is no boundary to what can be be taken as a racist slur these days. The media knows this subject sells because people will listen to and read about it, so they continue to promote the thinning of the skin of today's society in an effort to create more controversial situations like this. Sad really. In Melbourne especially we have a metlingpot of hundreds of different cultures, and there in nobody more culturally aware than myself so i am not scared to stand up and tackle this issue looking at it from both sides of the fence. My biggest fear is that on the back of this weeks events more and more people will now make an effort to interpret what they hear as being race related. The downward spiral will only continue and increase in velocity unless we have a well know person or group stand up and talk about the issue in a manner that is not biast to the ones being offended. I repeat - the educated ones that should be leading the discussions on this matter are too fearful of being labeled a racist to even attempt to talk about this subject from both sides of the fence.

1) Things need to be taken in the context they are said.
2) The people taking offence need to realize the motives behind the chosen words before being offended and passing judgement.
3) The person who's first instinct is to try and be offended needs to have a reality check.

If Friday's little girl had made a direct reference to anyone's race then this would all be fair and good. However its clear to all the girl said what she said because of Goodes's big build and thick beard.. not anything to do with his race. Why be offended first and ask questions about her motives later? Goodes needed to hear her explanation for the word before attempting to put his name down in history as the modern day Nick Winmar over something that was not a racist comment.

Example: You call a fat Chinese man a fatso. Why isn't that taken as racist? If it is a personal comment where the race of the person is not referred to to then i dont understand how an entire race of people can take offence to it. The path we are heading on right now is one where that Asian man would be racially offended you called a fatso would be offended for racial reasons. Where does it all stop?

I concede that Eddie really put his foot in it today, he needed to stay as far away from the matter as possible with any light hearted comment made. But why Harry O felt the need to be a hero on twitter astounds me. Pick up the goddam phone instead, Harry, and do yourself and your football club a favor.

i see what you are getting at kozi with the overall theme of your post and i agree with some of it in principle. the bolded part however i do see as being a little problematic and there is a clear difference between the goodes incident and your example of a "fatso asian". simply put....what colour is generally associated with apes/how many white apes are there?? compared with there obviously being fat people across all cultures. i'm not questioning the reason why the girl called him an ape. no reason to. but i can see why it caused a stir and offence among aboriginal people once it became known what was said. based on previous personal experience etc, goodesy obviously believed there was a direct connection between the comment and his race. he was entitled, and right, to do what he did.

 

[tigerfan11]

I am a believer that every person whether intentionally or not have made a racist comment or gesture in their lifetime. Be it joke or not. I am wog some of my best mates are anglo saxons. They call me wog I call them skip & at the end of the day we're all just really good mates. I tend to think that some races especially those who have been oppressed for a long time seem to carry on about every remark as if there's an underlying hatred there when most people don't really care if the color of your skin is different.

View attachment 19630

that's the thing though grechy....you have already built that relationship with your mates so that when those comments are made, you know the intent behind them. where it gets messy/ugly is when made by one person to another without that background already established to put the comment in context. without that context the comment is hurtful irrespective of whether or not it was intended to be.

 

[theyellowsash]

One person calling a black man a monkey might not sound like a big deal, but what about when you have a whole stadium (and sports people) doing it ala india and harbajan? If we allow things like this now then our kids will grow up thinking that actions like that are ok, and we will end up with whole groups calling the aboriginals (and others) monkeys because it is so off-putting to them but still 'ok' by society.

 

[The Sock Drawer]

I have never been more proud of the actions of an AFL footballer than I was of Adam Goodes of Friday night.
The amount of ridicule he has been subjected to since has indicated that there is still a disturbing amount of racism below the surface in society and that he was right to take the stand he did.
I am a middle class white man sitting on my comfortable backside in front of an expensive computer who is more than happy to acknowledge and respect the pain he felt at the remarks of a 13 year old girl in the crowd.
He didn't take the easy "thick skinned" option and shut his mouth and get on with it. He stood there, proud of his heritage and took ownership of the moment as a great man should. The fact that he felt remorse and expressed his sadness that those words came from a young girl only enhance his standing in my view.
Few players deserve our respect and admiration more than Adam Goodes, he will of course be remembered as one of the absolute greats of the game and now also as a cultural icon and hero for the indigenous community.
I wish he had played 300 games for the tigers.

 

[Grechy]

that's the thing though grechy....you have already built that relationship with your mates so that when those comments are made, you know the intent behind them. where it gets messy/ugly is when made by one person to another without that background already established to put the comment in context. without that context the comment is hurtful irrespective of whether or not it was intended to be.

That's a fair point.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

It's a bit concerning to see some people out there not understand how calling someone of a darker complexion an 'ape'. I don't think those people are necessarily ignorant but surely it's not too hard to see why someone (like Adam did) would take a comment like that offensively.

From this whole episode, I think it just goes to show that many people out there can understand racism and discrimination and the impact it can have on some people but while that's good, there is still some who need to be educated on understanding the concept.

I think Adam said to Mike Sheahan on the couch tv show last year that what has been done so far is good but you can always do more. Hopefully some of those people have managed to get a better understanding of this from this event so some good outcomes can come of it.

 

[Tetley Tigers]

I'm a white guy heading into my forties and I have absolutely no idea what it would be like to be subject to racism or more precisely casual racism that non-white people experience.

I notice most people calling out the old line "political correctness gone mad" are white people.

 

[CQTiger]

Massive over reaction by the media amusing that a media man like Eddie is in the middle of it so his rival media outlets will pursue it to the nth degree.
We are ridiculously politically correct in this country

 

[Mile High Tiger]

I don't know why anyone would bother wasting their time trying to explain to you what should be bleeding obvious.

You come across as beyond ignorant.

He structures arguments like a 16 yo who's getting a reasonable private school education but has f*ck-all experience of the real world .

 

[Mile High Tiger]

Yet if a white person is referred to as a Neanderthal (same general inference as the "ape" slur"), it would go largely unnoticed... just saying.

You're "just saying" the bleeding obvious, mate

 

[ScallyWag1]

At least this issue has finally given us a chance to hear Harry O'Brien's opinion on something..