Analysis Where does Simpson rank amongst WCE Premiership coaches?

eagles_4_life

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#76
We underestimate the value of a good woman /wife . Just look at Mitchells homesick missus .
Simpson and his missus rate above all coaches I base this on the list . Malthouse had the best list .
Woosha's list was ok but Woosha burnt out and took us to a spoon .
Simmo brought his own entourage of coaches and nailed it .
Have heard the reason Mitchell had to leave was that he got caught nailing embleys ex. Think her name is rain?
 
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Scotland

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#78
This is a slight deviation - I think the best team of the lot from a pure footballing perspective was the 92-94 Eagles, but I enjoy watching the 2018 generation more than any other. This is a group of blokes more unified than I think we've ever seen at the club.

And let's be honest: 2005-2006 era Eagles was bloody ugly footy. It's not a comment on us, but a comment on where the game was at the time.
A function of era. I'd rather watch the 1992 Eagles than the 2006 or 2018 versions but the latter two would beat the former. Four bench players rotating 100 times a game and a squad drilled into getting 18 behind the ball the second we lose it. Early 90s teams would struggle with the professionalism and tactics of current day sides.
 

JackOutback

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#79
A function of era. I'd rather watch the 1992 Eagles than the 2006 or 2018 versions but the latter two would beat the former. Four bench players rotating 100 times a game and a squad drilled into getting 18 behind the ball the second we lose it. Early 90s teams would struggle with the professionalism and tactics of current day sides.
These arguments never work for me when comparing across history. Of course if you transplanted the 92 Eagles to today, they’d get thumped. And Don Bradman would be a bunny. But if the 92 Eagles existed side by side the current lot, with the same training methods and tactics, I think they’d win comfortably. That was an insanely talented team (that underachieved, if anything; should have nabbed a third flag).
 

Scotland

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#80
RE: Malthouse, he is the coaching games record holder but everyone knows he coached an amazing list.

Jakovich, Worsfold, McKenna, McIntosh, Hart all AA defenders. Matera, Kemp, Turley AA midfielders. Plus Sumich who kicked 100, guys like Heady, Wilson, Lewis who played SOO. At one point half the WA side were playing for WC. We arguably underachieved 1991-1996 and our drafting over the mid to late 90s wasn't great.

RE: Worsold, he was a motivator that guys would run through brick walls for, but he wasn't anything special tactically. A bit like Buckley now, very rigid in the game plan and match ups he goes with which can be problematic. Others like Clarkson, Sheedy, Pagan are better thinkers.

Both are culpable for the culture of WC that evolved through the 90s, along with Nisbett and Cook.
 

Scotland

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#81
These arguments never work for me when comparing across history. Of course if you transplanted the 92 Eagles to today, they’d get thumped. And Don Bradman would be a bunny. But if the 92 Eagles existed side by side the current lot, with the same training methods and tactics, I think they’d win comfortably. That was an insanely talented team (that underachieved, if anything; should have nabbed a third flag).
Agree that 92 was more talented, it's only the professionalism and tactics that swing it in the favour of 06/18.

Cricket is a bit different. I reckon if you can average 99.94 on uncovered pitches with a 2lb bat you would go OK today.
 

Sw3Et

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#82
Does Woosha lose points for lack of player control and discipline during the premiership years and shortly after? I feel like the guys we have at the moment are all legit good blokes. I wonder how much Simmo has to do with that?
 

Dazzler10

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#83
These arguments never work for me when comparing across history. Of course if you transplanted the 92 Eagles to today, they’d get thumped. And Don Bradman would be a bunny. But if the 92 Eagles existed side by side the current lot, with the same training methods and tactics, I think they’d win comfortably. That was an insanely talented team (that underachieved, if anything; should have nabbed a third flag).
Bradman would still be Bradman. He had it tougher in his day, uncovered pitches, no helmets, toothpick bats...

Edit: Scotland beat me to it.
 
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#84
Agree that 92 was more talented, it's only the professionalism and tactics that swing it in the favour of 06/18.

Cricket is a bit different. I reckon if you can average 99.94 on uncovered pitches with a 2lb bat you would go OK today.
Bradman would still be Bradman. He had it tougher in his day, uncovered pitches, no helmets, toothpick bats...

Edit: Scotland beat me to it.
If anything, he'd be better. For all the reasons you raise and that the game is stacked in batsmen's favour, particularly in the short form.

Sent from my CPH1707 using Tapatalk
 

Scotland

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#85
Does Woosha lose points for lack of player control and discipline during the premiership years and shortly after? I feel like the guys we have at the moment are all legit good blokes. I wonder how much Simmo has to do with that?
Yes and no. If anything the culture of allowing dickheads that perform is a Malthouse thing. Look at Collingwood, the moment he was gone Buckley started flushing them out one by one.

The culture of WC was set during the 90s when he was captain. It's not like Cousins and Gardiner came along and decided 'we like to party (we like, we like to party)' and set the wheels in motion. The only difference between 1995 and 2005 is that players were still allowed to go out and have a beer in 1995 and people didn't go out with digital cameras, smartphones etc. looking for scandals. I don't need a dark, grainy image to tel me that Ashley McIntosh was pissed as a chook at Club Bay View the night after a game. Of course he was!

Ken Judge came in as an outsider and raised concerns and Nizzy and co showed him the back door and packed his desk into a cardboard box. Worsfold coming back at the end of 2001 having left in 1998 was never going to change the culture of the club, it was the culture he helped build and he still had a dozen or so ex teammates on the list.

As far as the "good bloke" Eagles go, 2007/8 happened under Worsfold's watch and we were on the path to being choirboys well before Simpson arrived. We were a nice team while Glass was captain, but save for 2011/12 weren't much chop. Where Simpson deserves praise is for coaching a side that is actually good while also not being full of complete ********s.
 

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#87
We have had our differences over the journey, but let me state one certifiable fact:

Your current coach has instituted the most watchable football in the last 15 years.

For many years I haven't given two stuffs for any other matches outside of my own club, but I actually go out of my way to watch Eagles matches now.

A game plan predominately built on marking, kicking, contested work and tackling power. You can tell Pagan coached him. Long may it reign.
 

Doashuey

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#88
Agree that 92 was more talented, it's only the professionalism and tactics that swing it in the favour of 06/18.

Cricket is a bit different. I reckon if you can average 99.94 on uncovered pitches with a 2lb bat you would go OK today.
With better bats, better protective equipment, road like pitches and a ball that hasn't changed in 100 years, Bradman would average 150 today. His eye and technique have never been close to equaled.
 

Scotland

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#89
We have had our differences over the journey, but let me state one certifiable fact:

Your current coach has instituted the most watchable football in the last 15 years.

For many years I haven't given two stuffs for any other matches outside of my own club, but I actually go out of my way to watch Eagles matches now.

A game plan predominately built on marking, kicking, contested work and tackling power. You can tell Pagan coached him. Long may it reign.
We still web it up a bit, but the bulk of our game plan is pretty straightforward. You just have to be good enough to execute it.

Get the ball, kick it to the advantage of our forwards. When the opposition has the ball, try to pressure the ball carrier and close down short kicks to force high kicks inside 50 to a contest. McGovern #1 in contested marks, Darling #4, Barrass #18. Kennedy top 10 on a per game basis. Hurn and McGovern 1 & 2 for total marks, Hurn #1 in kicks, Yeo #5. Pretty simple metrics, and we're not afraid of one on ones.
 

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#90
We still web it up a bit, but the bulk of our game plan is pretty straightforward. You just have to be good enough to execute it.

Get the ball, kick it to the advantage of our forwards. When the opposition has the ball, try to pressure the ball carrier and close down short kicks to force high kicks inside 50 to a contest. McGovern #1 in contested marks, Darling #4, Barrass #18. Kennedy top 10 on a per game basis. Hurn and McGovern 1 & 2 for total marks, Hurn #1 in kicks, Yeo #5. Pretty simple metrics, and we're not afraid of one on ones.

It's a simple game when your goal is to play the game according to it's fundamentals, and it's a million times better as a spectacle.

It's the vandals like Wallace, Roos & Lyon who contributed to stuffing it up via negating processes, which ultimately influenced the next generation of coaches, and inspired a multitude of rule changes designed to fix the damage.
 

DanWCE

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#91
Fox footy are doing some coach interviews and I caught an ad for Simmos one. Does anyone know when it'll be aired?
 

DanWCE

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#93
I may be wrong, but I think during Sunday's game they mentioned Simmo's would be on the 14th March.
Right you are good sir. I couldn't find it on my app but I've tracked it down on the desktop TV guide. 6pm tomorrow.

There's a video interview with Basil on TheWest, but you have to listen to Basil..
 
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#94
Some interesting points made on this post from the Freo board;
I don't think most people truly appreciate how well WCE have been list managed for the past decade in comparison to Freo. Simpson inherited a really balanced and experienced list. To his credit, he's made the most of it.

In their premiership team they used experienced players that were traded in and then either one or two players from every draft from 2005 to the 2017 excepting 2009 (Brad Sheppard would have played if not injured) and 2011 (GWS impacted draft - Yeo was originally from that draft though).

Their key positions and midfield are filled solely by experienced players traded in (Kennedy, Cripps, Yeo, Redden, Jetta, Vardy, Hickey) or those drafted prior to 2014 (ie with 5 or more years in the system). Barrass was the only one in their B22 spine drafted or traded in after 2010. And their key distributors off half back are also two of their most experienced (Hurn and Jetta). The players in their B22 who were drafted after 2013 are all small forwards or small defenders (Duggan, Cole, Venables, Rioli, Ryan). In their GF team Venables was the only one under 20 - and he was their least important GF player (2 effective disposals and 2 clangers). Even with injuries to key players during the season their key spots were filled by experienced players (Naitanui > Lycett+Vardy, Sheppard > Schofield, Gaff > Sheed). Their youngsters may have played a couple of games but they were never KPPs (third talls at most - Waterman, Allen, Brander) nor played in the midfield.

Then we take Freo, whose spine (sans 35yo Sandi) is Darcy (a 20yo ruck), Hamling (traded in 2016), Pearce (drafted 2013, missed over a year with injuries), either Cox (a 20yo) or Taberner (a rookie from 2012 who is still not guaranteed B22), Hogan (only just traded in) and Lobb (only just traded in). Their spine has been playing together for years, ours isn't even settled (and is yet to play a regular season game together). Our midfield is Fyfe, Mundy (33yo) and then a bunch of youngsters drafted from 2014 onwards (most of our mids were in their 1st season last year) or players traded in the past 3 years (eg BHill).

We only have 8 players on our list that we drafted/traded in prior to 2014. West Coast has 16. 2 of ours are perpetually injured (Sandi and Hill) and 2 probably shouldn't be B22 (Ballas and Tabs). 14 of theirs are B22. All our trade ins have been in the past 4 years. 11 players in total - 5 are either injured (Bennell) or fringe (Kersten/McCarthy/Matera/Colyer). WC have 8 traded in players on their list, 7 of those over the past 7 years (1 each year except none in 2014 and 2 in 2015). 7 are B22 (Ah Chee the exception).

When your spine and midfield (plus immediate depth) has mostly been together for 5 years+ it makes it so much easier to coach and have the players execute a game plan effectively. I don't think West Coast are a skilled team because they are all amazing kicks. I think Simpson has turned them into an incredibly disciplined team and they move as one to give the person with the ball high percentage options (eg a short kick to a lead whilst the others draw away their defenders). And they do the same when the opposition has the ball - moving in unison. Something that can be achieved far more easily with a team that is experienced and has played together a lot.

Lyon inherited a not dissimilar list in 2012. We had an experienced and established spine (McPharlin/Johnson/Sandi/Pavlich) and a strong midfield (Mundy/Fyfe/Barlow/Hill/Crowley). Perhaps not coincidentally both Lyon and Simpson took their teams to a GF in their second year coaching (2013 and 2015 respectively) and both lost to a more experienced, skilled and disciplined Hawthorn. Freo's 2014 and WC's 2016/17 seasons weren't dissimilar either - both playing finals but not threatening. In 2015 Ross had Freo hobble in to the end of season finishing minor premiers (again losing to the Hawks in the finals), whilst in 2018, Simpson got his team to the GF, took advantage of Richmond getting ahead of itself, and won the big dance. The major difference between Freo's 2015 list and WC's 2018 list? One had the depth to cover key injuries whilst the other didn't. Some will say it was development, I'm saying it was list management.

People will argue Ross' game style wearing the players out was also a major reason for the collapse but the reality was, when key injuries happened, Freo had no-one on the list to replace them. Freo's 2015 list simply wasn't even close to as deep and balanced as what West Coast had last year. Freo were incredibly reliant on veterans to be competitive (hence the plummet in 2016), and due to massive gaps in prior drafting we had no choice but to rebuild. Our list was in a dire predicament but the past few seasons we've turned it around (with good trading and conservative drafting). We've traded in to fill key gaps and add depth, plenty of our youngsters are producing beyond their years but need more time (especially the midfielders) and we've backed them in by playing them in key roles at the expense of our competitiveness. We can't expect immediate coordinated perfection from a list where 32 players have been turned over in 3 seasons. I'm not sure if Ross is the right coach to take Freo forward but I think sometimes people forget the context he is working in. If he goes, someone will inherit a good list come 2021.

And don't even get me started on the player availability issues we've had on top of the list management farce in recent seasons. We need to take immediate action like we did with list management. This season could be a complete write off if we don't (will only take a couple more injuries early) and if we head into next season's first round with a similar 14 or so injured players we'll completely waste all the good list management work we've done of late.
 
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#95
Some interesting points made on this post from the Freo board;
I also think having your key players peak at the right time is vital.
Geelong 07-11 the bulk of there premiership team was from 98-01 so being in the system for at least 6 years prior to the first flag 10-13 by the time 11 was around
Hawks 08 crawf last legs, guerra/ croad experienced hodge/Mitch 7 years in the system looking back it’s not surprising they slid. 13-15 they where a very experienced side.
Tigers 17 dusty, Rance, Roo and Cotch 06-08 drafted
Sydney 12 still had a fair few of there 06 flag winners around.

The only really anomalies to the rules are pies 2010 and dogs 2016
 

Chris_6678

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#96
I also think having your key players peak at the right time is vital.
Geelong 07-11 the bulk of there premiership team was from 98-01 so being in the system for at least 6 years prior to the first flag 10-13 by the time 11 was around
Hawks 08 crawf last legs, guerra/ croad experienced hodge/Mitch 7 years in the system looking back it’s not surprising they slid. 13-15 they where a very experienced side.
Tigers 17 dusty, Rance, Roo and Cotch 06-08 drafted
Sydney 12 still had a fair few of there 06 flag winners around.

The only really anomalies to the rules are pies 2010 and dogs 2016
Pendles, Thomas, Didak, Swan, Shaw, Johnson, Brown, Maxwell, O Brien had all played a fair amount of years together

Then you had Sidebottom, Beams, Luke Ball, Jolly ect

That was a pretty good team and not just a fluke!
 

Scotland

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#97
Collingwood's 2010 side was pretty young. Average age of 24 with a total of 2,226 games experience. Good even spread of 22-26 year old players. They really went downhill after the 2011 GF though. From 2010 to 2011 their GF side added 800 games of experience.
 
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