Where does Steve Smith rate?

[Sphynx]

There was a period of about 4-5 years in which you couldn't bowl closer than a full foot outside off to Ponting because he'd find a way to hit you for 4. Run a ball centuries in test cricket were commonplace for him; he made the extremely hard look simple.

But Smith has arguably harder runs in India and has completely trivialised an English attack in arguably a stronger era for English bowling, in harder conditions to bat in. Ponting also had significantly more support.

I think to an extent there's a bit of a disconnect at play here. I'd watch Ponting bat every day if I could, whether we're talking at his best or his worst; he was a genuinely gorgeous batter to watch. Smith has a certain majesty to him when he's on - and the new technique is a lot more attractive on the eye - but he's a workman as much as he's an artist. You're going to prefer the artwork and danger and dominance of Ponting as a spectator of the sport; Ponting is by far the prettier batter.

But beauty isn't effectiveness.

Ponting is probably my favorite player ever. Across all format's including his fielding, especially early days when he was at point.

Smith is a better run scorer though.

He's an uncompromising run machine that has worked out international bowling. He makes them bowl to him with his footwork and he picks them off in tough areas that reduces their chances of taking a wicket. He completely removes some wicket taking deliveries.

He's not the most graceful player to watch, if I wanted that I'd watch Martyn or Waugh. Doesn't make Martyn or Waugh better batsman than Punter and by extension doesn't make Punter a better batsman than Smith.

You just can't ignore his record in India and England. A record against India's strongest ever test side and 2 of Englands greatest ever quicks. To average those test numbers away in this era is comparable to Kohli's short format records imo.


I actually think Marnus and Punter will end up being the better comparison, as they are both more classically similar.

 

[Plugger46]

He went on too long, averaged 30 in his last two years

I think the position we where in at that point meant he had to
There was such a whole in leadership at that time

 

[Richard Pryor]

One of my cousin's moved in some of the same circles as him when she was at high school and she said that it was fortunate he was good at cricket because he had the iq and personality of a turnip which might explain why he's slightly less recognised than some of his more charismatic peers.

I remember a rumour that either Waugh or Ponting instructed the team not to sledge Kallis, not because it fired him up or anything, but because it all went over his head as he didn't get what was being said to him making it a waste of time.

 

[revo333]

I think the position we where in at that point meant he had to
There was such a whole in leadership at that time

I think the plan was that he was going to finish up batting at 5-6 but that never eventuated.

 

[Zach Package]

Think he’s on the cusp of entering his late era Steve Waugh ‘I can’t see the thing, but you’ll need the jaws of life to get me out’ phase, if not there already.

Looked pretty unperturbed by the short stuff yesterday, which I thought was quite remarkable.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Pretty sure Ponting averaged over 60 during his peak, Gilly averaged well over 50 too iirc, inevitability the average comes down when they reach the peak.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

He was almost the only thing holding the Aussie batting order together for a long while there after Clarke retired.

Back then Warner could be counted on to fill the boots on home decks, to be fair, but outside of Aus, it was all Smith.

As captain he averaged over 70 with the bat:

34 matches, 60 innings, 3,659 runs, 15 hundreds, 13 fifties.

Sandpapergate (and the whole crocodile tears thing which followed) ruined his reputation, which is a shame.

A weirdo cricket nerd who got the best out of himself, and could (should) have gone down as clear 2nd best Aussie batsman of all time.

Imagine a team with prime Punter at 3, prime Smith at 4, and prime Clarke at 5.

You could fill the rest of the batting order with local club cricketers and they would still make 300+ every innings.

 

[Ginnieboy]

I remember a rumour that either Waugh or Ponting instructed the team not to sledge Kallis, not because it fired him up or anything, but because it all went over his head as he didn't get what was being said to him making it a waste of time.

Oh I think he understood perfectly, never sledge players like that, Lara went beast mode when he was sledged, same a Viv.

 

[Blue1980]

He was almost the only thing holding the Aussie batting order together for a long while there after Clarke retired.

Back then Warner could be counted on to fill the boots on home decks, to be fair, but outside of Aus, it was all Smith.

As captain he averaged over 70 with the bat:

34 matches, 60 innings, 3,659 runs, 15 hundreds, 13 fifties.

Sandpapergate (and the whole crocodile tears thing which followed) ruined his reputation, which is a shame.

A weirdo cricket nerd who got the best out of himself, and could (should) have gone down as clear 2nd best Aussie batsman of all time.

Imagine a team with prime Punter at 3, prime Smith at 4, and prime Clarke at 5.

You could fill the rest of the batting order with local club cricketers and they would still make 300+ every innings.

He still might go down as our 2nd best ever.

 

[It Just Is]

Next best after Ponting*. 2019 Ashes and 2017 India were just unbelievable. Edgebaston back to back 140s was up there in my favourite cricket watching moments.

*Oops I meant Bradman!

Repeat those 2 series plus some runs in the WTC final next year and we could lock this thread.

 

[Mikevk123]

Has to be close right up there imo. Our current/recent run scorers (batsmen)

Smith 8,543 at 60.59
Warner 8,122 at 46.41
Khawaja 3,967 at 45.60
Laubschange 3,071 at 59.06
S.Marsh 2,265 at 34.32
Head 2,056 at 44.70

 

[Blue1980]

Repeat those 2 series plus some runs in the WTC final next year and we could lock this thread.

He is close enough as he is.

Ponting never dominated away test series in England or India like Smith has. The fact Smith has done it everywhere in the world gets my vote.

 

[Slysh]

 

[Sea fog]

He still might go down as our 2nd best ever.

He may, but I would argue a batsman like Greg Chappell faced tougher conditions in terms of pitches and bowlers. Compare the Windies teams Smith faces compared with what Chappell endured. Smith has struggled against SA which has had arguably the best bowling attack during his time. He got a ton in Sydney on a flatty when other batters were dominating too. Also Chappell played in an era when there were very few batters averaging over 50. Labu has been just as prolific as Smith and then there are blokes like Root, Kohli and Williamson who've also been pretty consistent. In Chappell's era for instance there was only really Viv Richards, Gavaskar who benefited a bit by flatter tracks in India and Javed Miandad who was never given out LBW by his home umpires.

 

[to1994]

There was some concern he might be falling away but it's great to see this summer showed he has a fair bit of fuel left in the tank.

I think the 2019 Ashes and 2017 India tour are unlikely to be repeated but if he can contribute like he's doing at the moment for the next year or two before retiring he'll easily finish as our second best ever.

I personally don't care about the sandpaper stuff. I believe Warner's manager when he says the whole team was involved and a handful of people were scapegoated as there were just too many holes at the time.

That said I think the experience will probably be better for Smith's overall life. It was clear before that he was Cricket obsessed to the point of blocking everything else, he's seemed a lot more well rounded since then.

I somewhat feel the same about Warner, he's carried himself really well since sandpaper and yet you get the same old people treating him like he hasn't changed a bit since 2013 when he was starting fights in bars.

 

[Cainozz]

Somewhere in the mid 30s perhaps 35 right behind Dravid? Can't see him reaching everest like Kallis, Punter & Tendulkar.

At 34, think he has 2-3 years tops so might be a handful of tons in that.

 

[eth-dog]

Somewhere in the mid 30s perhaps 35 right behind Dravid? Can't see him reaching everest like Kallis, Punter & Tendulkar.

At 34, think he has 2-3 years tops so might be a handful of tons in that.

I can see him getting to 40.

 

[Slysh]

Somewhere in the mid 30s perhaps 35 right behind Dravid? Can't see him reaching everest like Kallis, Punter & Tendulkar.

At 34, think he has 2-3 years tops so might be a handful of tons in that.

Not sure, we have a lot of test cricket coming up, this next 12 months will have a big say in where he finishes up.

If he has a strong Indian and English series i think 41 is possibly attainable, if he doesn't i think it gets difficult.

 

[allrighty]

There was some concern he might be falling away but it's great to see this summer showed he has a fair bit of fuel left in the tank.

I think the 2019 Ashes and 2017 India tour are unlikely to be repeated but if he can contribute like he's doing at the moment for the next year or two before retiring he'll easily finish as our second best ever.

I personally don't care about the sandpaper stuff. I believe Warner's manager when he says the whole team was involved and a handful of people were scapegoated as there were just too many holes at the time.

That said I think the experience will probably be better for Smith's overall life. It was clear before that he was Cricket obsessed to the point of blocking everything else, he's seemed a lot more well rounded since then.

I somewhat feel the same about Warner, he's carried himself really well since sandpaper and yet you get the same old people treating him like he hasn't changed a bit since 2013 when he was starting fights in bars.

He looks like he has bulked up too so maybe he has gone back to basics with the fitness going up a notch too.

 

[theiaofseed]

One thing I liek to mention people talk about Smith as if he's only a test player but his average in ODI cricket if you takeaway when he played as a tailender 2010-13. He averages over 50 with strike rate of 88.

 

[theiaofseed]

Somewhere in the mid 30s perhaps 35 right behind Dravid? Can't see him reaching everest like Kallis, Punter & Tendulkar.

At 34, think he has 2-3 years tops so might be a handful of tons in that.

It's such a shame he's onyl played 32 tests over the last 6 years, should have another 30 matches to his name and already be around 40 centuries.

 

[theiaofseed]

He may, but I would argue a batsman like Greg Chappell faced tougher conditions in terms of pitches and bowlers. Compare the Windies teams Smith faces compared with what Chappell endured. Smith has struggled against SA which has had arguably the best bowling attack during his time. He got a ton in Sydney on a flatty when other batters were dominating too. Also Chappell played in an era when there were very few batters averaging over 50. Labu has been just as prolific as Smith and then there are blokes like Root, Kohli and Williamson who've also been pretty consistent. In Chappell's era for instance there was only really Viv Richards, Gavaskar who benefited a bit by flatter tracks in India and Javed Miandad who was never given out LBW by his home umpires.

You proved just how good smith is when you use "struggle" and he still averages over 40 against that team on their home soil

Root, Kohli both average under 50 and only 5 players average over 50 of all current players and only 3 of them have played more than 20 Test (Smith, Williams, Labuschagne) the fact Smith not only averages 50+ but has averaged 60+ for 6 straight years speaks volumes of how dominate he is

 

[cricketnut14]

facts are , if he retired tomorrow - he's done enough to be considered an all time great.

his name is already amongst greats when you slice and dice test records.

best average at 100 tests : tendulkar 57.96 (smith 92 tests @ 60)
most runs at 100 tests: lara 8916 (smith 92 tests, 8647 runs)

tests played after 37th birthday (aussies only since WSC)




so it's safe to say he won't play many, if any after the age of 37.

i wouldn't be surprised if he has played his lasy T20I.


upcoming test schedule: (the ones highlighted in yellow below are after his 37th birthday)




there's no reason he couldn't play the next 3 aussie summers (he'd be warner/khawaja's current age).

let's say he retires after the home ashes series.

there are 30 tests in the next 3 years (32 if we make WTC finals) - lets say he plays 28 tests (takes him to 120 tests)
if he does play those, 20 of these tests will be against quality teams in england and india.

there's a chunk of the above (17 tests in the next 14 months) and is on target to have 10,000 runs by the end of the NZ tour.

in terms of australian records:
-at his current rate he'd get to approx 11,200 - only behind ponting (might be touch and go to get waugh and border if form slips)
-at his current conversion rate, he'd be around 35-38 100's - only behind ponting
- batting average 2nd to bradman (even with a form dip, he'll finish with a batting ave of 55+)
-would be on 190-200 catches, placing him 1st or 2nd (ponting 196)


i'm not sure the afghanistan, new zealand, bangladesh home series will appeal to him, unless he is eyeing off the WTC final in 2027 (turning 38)
it means he is unlikely to play south africa again - and not revisit sandpaper gate etc.
if he does play those series (approx 140 tests, then ponting's 13,378 will be in jeopardy).

 

[Sea fog]

It's such a shame he's onyl played 32 tests over the last 6 years, should have another 30 matches to his name and already be around 40 centuries.

Look at how few some of the guns player over the years though. Lillee only played 70.

 

[corbies]

He may, but I would argue a batsman like Greg Chappell faced tougher conditions in terms of pitches and bowlers. Compare the Windies teams Smith faces compared with what Chappell endured. Smith has struggled against SA which has had arguably the best bowling attack during his time. He got a ton in Sydney on a flatty when other batters were dominating too. Also Chappell played in an era when there were very few batters averaging over 50. Labu has been just as prolific as Smith and then there are blokes like Root, Kohli and Williamson who've also been pretty consistent. In Chappell's era for instance there was only really Viv Richards, Gavaskar who benefited a bit by flatter tracks in India and Javed Miandad who was never given out LBW by his home umpires.

Javed Miandad was given out LBW 8 times in Pakistan. In comparison Bill Lawry was never given out LBW in Australia.

Didn't Greg Chappell refuse to go on overseas tours on several occasions?