Racing Where does Winx now sit in Hall of fame

[Duritz]

Black Caviar broke 1 track record in very dodge circumstances but was hardly let go in most of her other races
how do you rate her not being let go?
Hareeba smashed the track record at Moonee Valley running 1.7.00 with 59kgs prior to it being resurfaced how do you account for that?

Black Caviar ran the fastest Newmarket in history, on a dead track, with more weight than any mare has ever carried to victory in this our most prestigious sprint race at our most prestigious sprinting course. That day she set a new high mark in my DB. She then equalled it in the TJ (when she gets a bonus for racing wide).

The rest of her runs rated below those marks because, as you said, she jog trotted a lot of them. It doesn't detract from the fact that her best was better than anyone before though, and had she been asked to extend in those other races she has obviously would've rated better than she did. As to how often she'd have repeated that Newmarket mark? Who knows. Fact is it clearly wasn't a fluke as she repeated it in the TJ and cruised at a level below the rest of the time.

Re hareeba and re surfacing - I don't know why that is of relevance. You rate them based on the conditions of the day, hareeba's performance that day is assessed based on how MV was at the time. It's like you asking me "how can you know what winx did today because in 10 years they'll resurface MV again!! Doesn't make sense...

 

[HeathySure]

Black Caviar ran the fastest Newmarket in history, on a dead track, with more weight than any mare has ever carried to victory in this our most prestigious sprint race at our most prestigious sprinting course. That day she set a new high mark in my DB. She then equalled it in the TJ (when she gets a bonus for racing wide).

The rest of her runs rated below those marks because, as you said, she jog trotted a lot of them. It doesn't detract from the fact that her best was better than anyone before though, and had she been asked to extend in those other races she has obviously would've rated better than she did. As to how often she'd have repeated that Newmarket mark? Who knows. Fact is it clearly wasn't a fluke as she repeated it in the TJ and cruised at a level below the rest of the time.

Re hareeba and re surfacing - I don't know why that is of relevance. You rate them based on the conditions of the day, hareeba's performance that day is assessed based on how MV was at the time. It's like you asking me "how can you know what winx did today because in 10 years they'll resurface MV again!! Doesn't make sense...

ok i finally understand your ratings which is what i struggled with. The hareeba thing i mentioned cos i would assume it would be one of your highest ratings ever but if you are comparing it to the races of the day then your ratings would be based on how fast the other races were run on the day, so it could be high but if everything ran faster times than normal then the rating would not be so high?
As an aside that fluke thing, a horse cannot run faster than its physically capable of so i would suggest that might either a flaw in the ratings, or the horse has that effort in him and can produce it again in the future.

We really do rate things the same way but using different methods. My method is looking at overall times during the day for hte course its running on and if the horse won in a much faster time than the others on the day it was a good bet, i just dont quantify it like you do. Watering the tracks has made this much more difficult for me though.

 

[Duritz]

ok i finally understand your ratings which is what i struggled with. The hareeba thing i mentioned cos i would assume it would be one of your highest ratings ever but if you are comparing it to the races of the day then your ratings would be based on how fast the other races were run on the day, so it could be high but if everything ran faster times than normal then the rating would not be so high?
As an aside that fluke thing, a horse cannot run faster than its physically capable of so i would suggest that might either a flaw in the ratings, or the horse has that effort in him and can produce it again in the future.

We really do rate things the same way but using different methods. My method is looking at overall times during the day for hte course its running on and if the horse won in a much faster time than the others on the day it was a good bet, i just dont quantify it like you do. Watering the tracks has made this much more difficult for me though.

Correct if everything went fast on the day then you adjust for that. Trackspeed is very important. The day that QLD "superstar" who has retired to stud after running close to TT's record the track was lightning fast. He did about 5-6L below TT's mark in reality.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

State Taj & Monopolize won overseas. Monopolize twice!

Crisp should have won overseas

 

[HeathySure]

State Taj & Monopolize won overseas. Monopolize twice!

Crisp should have won overseas

that was in the early days of hong kong crapness
Falvelon too twice!

 

[juss]

I enjoy having a casual weekly punt on the races, but nothing too serious. I'm a noob when it comes to comparing horses, but in terms of standing in horse racing, who would be considered higher, Black Caviar or Winx?

 

[iluvparis]

Black Caviar

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Neither, Gust of Wind

 

[Duritz]

Real Love ftw

 

[Whowants2know]

Karasi won the same race 3 years in a row in Japan. Which is the world's riches steeplechase race.

No champion but still pretty impressive effort that never gets mentioned.

 

[Watts4Dinner]

Karasi won the same race 3 years in a row in Japan. Which is the world's riches steeplechase race.

No champion but still pretty impressive effort that never gets mentioned.

That's like being the fastest guy on one leg. Or the best woman footballer.

 

[Duritz]

Karasi won the same race 3 years in a row in Japan. Which is the world's riches steeplechase race.

No champion but still pretty impressive effort that never gets mentioned.

That's like being the fastest guy on one leg. Or the best woman footballer.

Karasi was an amazing jumper, was a pleasure to watch and barrack.

 

[iluvparis]

Karasi won the same race 3 years in a row in Japan. Which is the world's riches steeplechase race.

No champion but still pretty impressive effort that never gets mentioned.

It might be the richest but the UK send their second stringers.

Would be like winning the HK Cup three years in a row I guess.

 

[Gavin Excell]

A number of people happy to tip Chats to beat Winx today. Odd

 

[FallingLiefs]

A number of people happy to tip Chats to beat Winx today. Odd

Will be interesting if horses keep firming against her. Normal at this time of day for it to happen but only time I recall her drifting close to jump or others firming against her since basically her last loss was last week.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Will be interesting if horses keep firming against her. Normal at this time of day for it to happen but only time I recall her drifting close to jump or others firming against her since basically her last loss was last week.

Is this because theres a view her win on the H9 last time was not that great?

 

[FallingLiefs]

Is this because theres a view her win on the H9 last time was not that great?

i think its a fairly common idea that she doesn't like the wet, but i wouldn't read too much into the flucs yet. market said she would underperform last week (i'm assuming because of the heavy second up even before that run)with Hartnell firming against her late (the important stuff) which as i said is unheard of for her last... well since gust of wind. normally at this time of morning Hartnell tightens before blowing out late except last week he tightened further. i probably have her in the $1.28 to $1.40 realm. as i have said she is vulnerable in the wet when she's not fully wound up.

 

[54Dogs]

OK /thread

Best in the world

 

[Dominion]

lollllll doubters

 

[Duritz]

Meh. Wouldn't beat Diatribe.

 

[Dan Moody]

Yawn, another s**t field

 

[54Dogs]

Chat still best sprinter in the world apparently

 

[rideclutch]

Can't judge where she sits properly until she's retired and we can reflect, but today was ridiculous.

It wasn't the field she beat, it was the crushing of expectation. Would she win by 2 lengths hard held? No, just 7 and a half.

Seriously, where the * did this horse come from? Got made to look 2nd rate by First Cat and Gust Of Wind beat her... has a horse ever improved this much??

 

[Watts4Dinner]

Can't judge where she sits properly until she's retired and we can reflect, but today was ridiculous.

It wasn't the field she beat, it was the crushing of expectation. Would she win by 2 lengths hard held? No, just 7 and a half.

Seriously, where the **** did this horse come from? Got made to look 2nd rate by First Cat and Gust Of Wind beat her... has a horse ever improved this much??

They aren't all like Caviar. I think Pharlap took 5-6 runs to win his first race. She just needed time.

 

[Duritz]

Yawn, another s**t field

She's pretty much a flat track bully these days huh.