Analysis Where is Port Power at list wise?

[Freomaniac]

Rebuild

You mean a similar rebuild like North Melbourne since 2020 or eagles since 2022? Yeah... Nah


Ports list is interesting. It's not a bottom 4 list. It's not a top 4 list either despite finishing 2nd on the ladder and got a preliminary final last season.

 

[Hank Scorpion]

Partial rebuild with a couple of years around the bottom 4 required.

Spent too many years trading draft picks for magic beans and they have very little depth outside of their best 5-6 players as a result (Carlton syndrome.)

Feel like whatever they'd have to trade for Nas is just going to exacerbate the problem.

 

[HugeJohnson]

I think Port have a good core of mids, but they lack key positions and small forwards. Unfortunately those are the two hardest positions to fill with quality. Its the same problem North have.

Alir is 30 years old and your best key defender. He isnt consistent either.

Georgiades is your best forward, and unfortunately SPP is having his 2nd ACL, and the future of Marshall is in question. Whatever the question is, Ollie Lord isn't the answer.

So in reality Port needs 2 key defenders, 2 key forwards and 2 quality small forwards.
To find those is really hard. North have been trying for half a decade and still havent found one.

You say that like it's a bad thing? He's equal second in the Coleman in a team that's getting smashed most weeks.... What's the point you're trying to make? He shouldn't be good enough to be our best forward?

 

[TheUnicorn]

It’s not great timing, especially with Tazzy just around the corner. Also, this year is being reported as a pretty weak draft. How are they going to handle this? They’re really going to have to nail the picks they do get and find some real gems.

 

[The Hobo]

The biggest issue and Ken's major failing is player development. How many key position players has he developed during his tenure? Most of KPP are trades from other clubs who usually have great debut seasons then fall away rapidly the following seasons.

Which Key position players do you think he should have developed better/further? Who showed signs of making it that he should have developed into an AFL player? I can't recall any on our list that showed they had the quality to make it. And as good key position players are so rare, if they were half decent, i'm sure another club would have seen that talent and picked them up after we delisted them.

I mean I suppose that did happen with Frampton. But that's about it.

 

[The Hobo]

They need to go to the draft with quality picks as Hinkley had stuffed their list by overpaying players who aren't even quality players to remain as premiership "contenders".

Didn't realise Hinkley was the list manager.

 

[stallon]

You mean a similar rebuild like North Melbourne since 2020 or eagles since 2022? Yeah... Nah


Ports list is interesting. It's not a bottom 4 list. It's not a top 4 list either despite finishing 2nd on the ladder and got a preliminary final last season.

They need too many pieces to be a serious threat.
Pieces that you cant just pick up cheap or have perform at a young age(KPPs)

They've invested so heavily in the midfield but just forgotten about the rest of the field.
Imo they need to go to the draft, then develop players for 3-4 years.
Rozee, georgiades and JHF will still be in their primes in 4 years time

 

[The Hobo]

To answer your question in my opinion:

The list is mostly good, and I don't think a full scale rebuild is required, however there are some massive holes that need addressing if we are to have success.

The best 22 is actually quite good. I believe it is good enough to fight for top 4 (as evidenced by numerous top 4 finishes in the last 5 years). However as soon as you scratch beneath the surface, the lack of depth becomes immediately apparent. This season, injuries have exposed that badly. We've got about 5 games out of Marshall and Lukosius this season, so never saw our best forward line - and we also lost SPP from there. Rioli has been unfit and missed a number of games as well now.


I also believe our strength and conditioning team have a lot to answer for, as our players are unfit, and undersized.

List wise, there are a few issues that need addressing.

Key Defenders. We have 3, and all 3 play every week when fit. BZT, Aliir and Esava. Esava has taken a massive leap forward this season and is looking likely to becoming a very very good defender. However there is no depth. Harrison Ramm, the midseason pick is the only backup, and he is extremely raw. We need at least one other key back that can play in this position. Our current plan is to put Bergman there, which of course stuffs the midfield.
We started the season without BZT for the first half of the season, and by the time he got going, we lost Esava.


Ruck - Sweet has played well the past few weeks, and Visentini is young and developing, so this MAY now be ok. Sweet had a shocker of a start to the season though, and we really struggled, as Soldo has been really poor and Visentini isn't ready. This lead to a period of games where the opposition ruck was by far and away the best player on the pitch for about 5 weeks in a row. If Sweet can play at the level he's been playing at recently, then it's ok. It's a watch.


Forward/Ruck - No player capable of chopping out when the main ruck is resting. Finlayson was the answer but his form has fallen off a cliff (off field personal issues likely a major factor, so nothing against him). Whitlock may be the answer if he can work his ass off in the gym over the offseason.

Small Forward - Rioli a possibility to retire at the end of the season, and no depth. We've had to resort to playing McEntee there in past weeks (and he's actually done ok the last 2 games, but history suggests he's not the answer)

It's not all doom and gloom, I expect to be back in the top 8 next season, there is too much quality not to. (assuming injuries calm down). But if we are to challenge for a flag, we need to focus on depth.

 

[The Hobo]

They need too many pieces to be a serious threat.
Pieces that you cant just pick up cheap or have perform at a young age(KPPs)

They've invested so heavily in the midfield but just forgotten about the rest of the field.
Imo they need to go to the draft, then develop players for 3-4 years.
Rozee, georgiades and JHF will still be in their primes in 4 years time

Only in terms of depth.

Don't forget we never saw the forward line this season (Marshall 0 games, Lukosius 5 games, 2 were half games due to injury)
The defence did not play many games together as a full unit, BZT missed most of the first half, Esava most of the second half. Aliir on one leg for the second half as there is 0 depth.

We probably need to pick up one AFL ready defender, and another young one to develop. Forward line is likely ok as Whitlock is developing and played his first game and can cover.

 

[Cleric]

You say that like it's a bad thing? He's equal second in the Coleman in a team that's getting smashed most weeks.... What's the point you're trying to make? He shouldn't be good enough to be our best forward?

Talk about an over reaction.
Mitch is a very good forward, but he is your only good forward.
That's what I said. You need more than one good strong forward in today's game.
Lord isnt the answer, Marshall is a good chance to leave the game with his injuries and concussions.
Whitlock is miles off it at this stage.
Luko is a B grader at this point.

Compare that to Adelaide, Bulldogs, GWS or Gold Coast.

The point is Port still need to find another couple of high level key forward, some key defenders and some elite small forwards.
These are the three hardest positions to fill, just ask North.
Its why Adelaide prioritised them over mids in their rebuild.

 

[Cleric]

To answer your question in my opinion:

The list is mostly good, and I don't think a full scale rebuild is required, however there are some massive holes that need addressing if we are to have success.

The best 22 is actually quite good. I believe it is good enough to fight for top 4 (as evidenced by numerous top 4 finishes in the last 5 years). However as soon as you scratch beneath the surface, the lack of depth becomes immediately apparent. This season, injuries have exposed that badly. We've got about 5 games out of Marshall and Lukosius this season, so never saw our best forward line - and we also lost SPP from there. Rioli has been unfit and missed a number of games as well now.


I also believe our strength and conditioning team have a lot to answer for, as our players are unfit, and undersized.

List wise, there are a few issues that need addressing.

Key Defenders. We have 3, and all 3 play every week when fit. BZT, Aliir and Esava. Esava has taken a massive leap forward this season and is looking likely to becoming a very very good defender. However there is no depth. Harrison Ramm, the midseason pick is the only backup, and he is extremely raw. We need at least one other key back that can play in this position. Our current plan is to put Bergman there, which of course stuffs the midfield.
We started the season without BZT for the first half of the season, and by the time he got going, we lost Esava.


Ruck - Sweet has played well the past few weeks, and Visentini is young and developing, so this MAY now be ok. Sweet had a shocker of a start to the season though, and we really struggled, as Soldo has been really poor and Visentini isn't ready. This lead to a period of games where the opposition ruck was by far and away the best player on the pitch for about 5 weeks in a row. If Sweet can play at the level he's been playing at recently, then it's ok. It's a watch.


Forward/Ruck - No player capable of chopping out when the main ruck is resting. Finlayson was the answer but his form has fallen off a cliff (off field personal issues likely a major factor, so nothing against him). Whitlock may be the answer if he can work his ass off in the gym over the offseason.

Small Forward - Rioli a possibility to retire at the end of the season, and no depth. We've had to resort to playing McEntee there in past weeks (and he's actually done ok the last 2 games, but history suggests he's not the answer)

It's not all doom and gloom, I expect to be back in the top 8 next season, there is too much quality not to. (assuming injuries calm down). But if we are to challenge for a flag, we need to focus on depth.

I would agree, but there's a little rose coloured glasses there.
The midfield is good.
I think the rucks are good enough.
Theres some holes in the defence and attacks, and a massive hole in the small forward, and forward pressure players that's needed.

 

[Cleric]

Didn't realise Hinkley was the list manager.

Depending on the team, the coach has a massive say in list management decisions.
Ken will go to the list managers and say what he thinks he needs for his game style, and its up to them to try and fix those holes.

You dont honestly think they were going to get Luko and didn't pass it over Ken for his input do you?
The list managers will have meetings with the coach prior to the draft with who is on the boards around their picks, and let him know what they think of those players.
Generally the coaches will defer to them on that point, as the Coach hasn't sat there the whole year watching all the kids.

But on big ticket trades, absolutely the coach is a part of the process and decision making.

 

[The Hobo]

Depending on the team, the coach has a massive say in list management decisions.
Ken will go to the list managers and say what he thinks he needs for his game style, and its up to them to try and fix those holes.

You dont honestly think they were going to get Luko and didn't pass it over Ken for his input do you?
The list managers will have meetings with the coach prior to the draft with who is on the boards around their picks, and let him know what they think of those players.
Generally the coaches will defer to them on that point, as the Coach hasn't sat there the whole year watching all the kids.

But on big ticket trades, absolutely the coach is a part of the process and decision making.

Sure, but the 'overpaying' being blamed on Ken is where I was pointing out, that he probably doesn't determine the value of Luko.

 

[Freomaniac]

We have holes in the key defensive stocks and small forwards. Hard to judge our list on current results while we’re hammered with injuries and the coaching saga that’s plagued the year.

Just today we’re missing Marshal, Luko, Rioli, SPP, Bergman, JHF, Rozee, Esava, Visentini and Burgoyne injured now as well. Take out 9-10 best 22 and any team will get hammered. Unfortunately it’s been an issue all year not being able to put close to our 22 on the park all season. Depth will cover 3-5 best 22 without a drop in performance, not many teams can carry the injury load we’ve had most the season.

We certainly have list holes but the overall list when fit, isn’t as dire as the current results make it to be.

I agree with holes in the tall defenders stocks and small forwards stocks.

I look at the tall defenders stocks. Allir is good but is 30 or 31 years old. He still has 1 good year left. He was limping in the showdown too.

Estava Ratagulea and Brandon Zerk Thatcher are both 27. If Allir retires this season or next season, their younger tall defenders need to be rotated.

I agree with the small forwards. Willy Rioli is good but how many good years he has left? Port will look for small forwards in the SANFL

 

[FrankDrebin]

Those draftee would take 2-4 years to develop and to get them and NWM you will need to go into draft deficit after the compromised draft is done with your list still in rebuild.

Potentially, but it was more in response to the comments that with compromised drafts coming up and no first rounder this year there will be nothing coming up with Carr to work with. But there is a scenario where we still could have access to elite juniors, despite the car crash that was last years trade period.

 

[Scotland]

Average. But just need to change the bathwater and can keep the baby.

Losing Houston last year and not having a first this year is a poor position to be in, but overall the list isn't that bad.

Georgiades has taken a huge step since his ACL and is now a genuine key forward in the comp. Butters and Rozee are 25. JHF is 22.

If you take out Boak, Wines and Byrne-Jones who they don't really rely on any more the team is very young and inexperienced, but they aren't stuck in that zone good sides fall into where the crop of 23-27 year olds are ordinary. That is their core group of talent. Jury out on most of the under 22s because they just haven't played enough footy yet.

If they can somehow manage to get Wanganeen-Milera onto the list without giving up Butters it would be massive. Not sure how they do that but time will tell.

 

[1990crow]

Cleric is a bit obsessed with Port's list.

 

[Cleric]

Cleric is a bit obsessed with Port's list.

You should see my other obsessions.

 

[1990crow]

You should see my other obsessions.

Found it humorous you have two threads on this topic both on page 1 of the main board.

 

[Cleric]

Found it humorous you have two threads on this topic both on page 1 of the main board.

Hey, I'm a page 1 level poster. I'll take that.

 

[Dogflogger]

They have a massive list of future father sons, throw in some academy players and the team might rebuild itself.