Opinion Where the growth needs to come...

[plugger66]

Main growth but a huge ask is whindhanger owens Milera. They change that very average midfield which is good individually but ordinary as a group. King will improve again as he has done every year. Gresh is the X factor. Then there is Clark and coffield. Who knows where they are at but good years by both will get us up the ladder. The list this year finished pretty much where that list should have. The same list with a couple of right players added is good enough for 2 to 4 more wins which can’t get you 8th or 4th. Midfield is where the improvement needs to come from. Backs are fine just need depth. Forwards are fine especially if we could add a forward ruck.

 

[lewdogs]

Main growth but a huge ask is whindhanger owens Milera. They change that very average midfield which is good individually but ordinary as a group. King will improve again as he has done every year. Gresh is the X factor. Then there is Clark and coffield. Who knows where they are at but good years by both will get us up the ladder. The list this year finished pretty much where that list should have. The same list with a couple of right players added is good enough for 2 to 4 more wins which can’t get you 8th or 4th. Midfield is where the improvement needs to come from. Backs are fine just need depth. Forwards are fine especially if we could add a forward ruck.

It would be magnificent to see those three take another step but I think I'm just expecting second year blues. But fingers crossed, they would all make an enormous difference.

 

[saint66au]

Get some blokes under 24 onto the BnF podium

 

[The Boar]

We can't with this List and these Coaches.

Can't attract a trade or FA as we're a middling team currently.

I think we need to keep our strong youth, move on some players to reset hard at the draft for 2 years.

Owens, Windy and NWM were the highlights of the year. Repeat that (as best as we can) x2 and reset around King and Co.

Focus on highly skilled, smart footballers with leadership and we'll have a new strong core.

Finally, sweep the Coaches. Everyone other than Lenny and Enright should be under strong review, including Ratten in 2023.

We're going backwards whether we like it or not, have to embrace that and treat off the bandaid because seasons like 2021 and 2022 are a waste of everyone's time and playing careers

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dr Spaceman]

We're going backwards whether we like it or not

 

[sunny3193]

I can still remember watching that film as a kid on TV. For what ever reason it stuck in my head but I didn't get the reference.

I was in the film, not a big part.
I was the stunt weed

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ryder was instrumental in some of our big wins, even if it was just taking a good grab at the right time and kicking a goal.
He seemed to lift and lift the team.

Not sure who is going to provide this sort of oomph now.

Some of the younger ones need to move beyond playing their role adequately. ( or inadequately ).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Howard Adams Sharman : Key back. Sharman? Adams under the pump?

Coffield. Battle Lionert Highmore Wilkie : Tallish defenders but not key defenders , We collect these

Webster Paton Connolly : Small defenders.

Wanganeen-Milera Hill Billings ? : Outside mids, should Billings be a forward?

Sinclair Jones Ross Clark McKenzie Byrnes Windhager : Inside outside mids, who can play hbf in a pinch.

Crouch Steele Bytel Owens? : Inside mids.

Gresham : Inside mid/forward

Marshall Heath : Ruckman

Long : person who runs at the ball and causes pressure, maybe a turnover.

Butler , Higgins , Peris : Small forward

Membrey Alison? Wood Hayes : Utility forward who can play on the wing maybe or relief ruck.

King : Key forward...bomb it to him.

Seems we have the best depth in a position that could be filled pretty readily if we didn't.

 

[70s sainter]

More of a football based philosophy now that Finnis is gone .
Thanks for moorabbin and some of the sponsors but now at least we can move forward .
Leathlean throwing his weight around in afl house - mainly more home games against the bigger clubs at the Mcg - hopefully 5
Lenny bringing the players and hopefully the game plan together.
Max and Higgins kicking straight.
Players actually enjoying their footy.
Home game against port at marvel.
Mental health game speech scrapped.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Every single club is relying on internal growth and could put up post similar to these post above, we do it every year
If we dont bring in a A grader like Degoey or Dunkley I see us just treading water and being around the same spot 10th
Our back half of the year was bottom 4 -6 stuff going on all the main stats
Think the biggest thing holding us back is our game plan and coaching box

This is why sometimes we improve and are still disappointed that other clubs are better. We seem to not have moved but they just get lucky and improve more than we do at the same time

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

In hindsight perhaps making the finals and winning one in 2020 was a backwards step?

The one happy point in the last 10 years for us and you want to take it away?

 

[Munga]

I think the growth comes from the likes of Long... what we do with what we get.

 

[sauce_head]

The one happy point in the last 10 years for us and you want to take it away?

Not take it away, I was very happy as well. But we may have gotten ahead of ourselves…

 

[SaintsSeptember]

End of 2013
Lost : Watters, DalSanto, McEvoy, Blake, Milne, Koschitski , Saad, Ledger
Gained : Cho, Billings , Longer, Delaney, Eli Bruce , Dunstan , Acres , Mav , Savage
Then Finished bottom.

End of 2014
Lost : Gwilt, Stanley, Hayes , Maister, Jones , Dennis-Lane, Dunnell, Milera
Gained : Mc Cartin, Goddard, Membrey, McKenzie, Lonie, Saad , Sinclair
Following year finished 14th. ( Why the improvement )?

End of 2015
Lost : Schnieder , Simpkin, Sippos, White , Ray , Saad
Gained : Carlisle , Gresham some others.
Following year finished 9th. ( Prominent players, Montagna, Ross, Armitage ( last good season), Steven, Riewoldt, Savage, Weller, Billings, Roberton, Gilbert. ).

End of of 2016
Lost : Curren, Delaney, Lee, Shenton, Eli , Fisher , Dempster ( officially retired the following year ).
Gained : Steele , Stevens, Long, Battle , Phillips , Marshall, Brown
2017 finiished 11th. Carlisle rusty, No Armitage or Dempster, and Dunstan regressing.

End of 2017
Lost Riewoldt . Montagna ,
Gained Clark, Coffield Paton
2018 finished 16th. Look at the team outs and go figure. Stevens only 2 games, and Armo not a shadow of his former self.

End of 2018.
Lost Hickey. Stevens, Gilbert, Minchington , Weller
Gained . Ratten No notable traded gains. King, Bytel, Parker , Hind, Wilkie , Marsh
2019 finished 14th. Jack Steven

9

Jack Steven

Age

36

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.7

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.8

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

had been the big shock. Armo Shot. Longer couldn't play.

End of 2019.
Lost Cho, Steven , Bruce, Newnes. Acres, Armitage , Longer, Pierce ,McCartin. Brown
Gained , Howard, Hill, Ryder. Byrnes, Connolly, Butler
2020 finished 6th. Steele, Billings ( who had not been Cho'd apparently ) and Clark all prominent. Butler great in the forward line.

End of 2020.
Lost Carlisle , Hind, Phillips, Marsh , Savage.
Gained , Higgins ,Highmore , Wood.
Finished 2021 10th.

I reckon the Job Richo got was doomed from the beginning.
If you look at the talent that was bleeding out of the side each year we needed elite list management to do anything good, but instead we
got some of the worst drafting and trade choices possible.

What if.....the 2020 result was actually due to the remnants of Richo in the team......and we're now all Ratto?.

 

[saintbill]

IMO, we need something out of left field. For example, can somebody step up and nail a midfield spot.

Could any of Coffield, Clark, Billings or even Higgins become a genuine gun onballer.

Highly unlikely, but would be massive if that happened. If Coffield for example became an inside bull, that would be epic.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

IMO, we need something out of left field. For example, can somebody step up and nail a midfield spot.

Could any of Coffield, Clark, Billings or even Higgins become a genuine gun onballer.

Highly unlikely, but would be massive if that happened. If Coffield for example became an inside bull, that would be epic.

Most likely IMO is that Windhager does a tagging apprenticeship, ( like Steele did ) to work towards it.

 

[Ads734]

Straight kicking and coaches

 

[lewdogs]

Windy interview at the BnF...

"Me and a few of the boys have already gotten started on our pre-season program."

 

[saint66au]

My memory might be a bit hazy, but fairly sure that the year AFTER the Dogs won a flag, a big % of their BnF Top 10 were 23 or under.

We had two (Max/Battle) this year.

If you want to rise up from the middle or lower ranks you cant just rely on your age 25+ players to do everything.

 

[seasonedsainter]

More mongrel required!! Much more mongrel required!!!!

 

[LennyHayes77]

IMO, we need something out of left field. For example, can somebody step up and nail a midfield spot.

Could any of Coffield, Clark, Billings or even Higgins become a genuine gun onballer.

Highly unlikely, but would be massive if that happened. If Coffield for example became an inside bull, that would be epic.

Those guys you listed need to take control of their own careers. It's not just going to happen for them.
An absolutely massive preseason and anyone can get the body and tank to play midfield, especially these guys who have several preseasons under their belt already.
I think all 4 of these guys are at the crossroads of becoming plain vanilla ordinary players if they don't decide they want to become stars.
Can see at least 2 of them delisted/traded by next year if things don't improve.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My memory might be a bit hazy, but fairly sure that the year AFTER the Dogs won a flag, a big % of their BnF Top 10 were 23 or under.

We had two (Max/Battle) this year.

If you want to rise up from the middle or lower ranks you cant just rely on your age 25+ players to do everything.

You can if they are talented.
Just get talented players and they will play good, who cares if they are 18 or 35?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

More mongrel required!! Much more mongrel required!!!!

Not really, we just need to stop avoiding talent because they are mongrels.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Maybe it’s the rose coloured glasses after not having to watch us play the last 5 weeks, but I think our list isn’t in as bad a shape as what everyone keeps harping on about.

We will literally only have 3 blokes over 30 next year (possibly 2 if we offload Hill). With Geelong just winning a flag with the oldest list ever, is it overstated about having players over 30 anyway?

Most of our list is still between 23 and 27, so they should be either in or entering their prime, which is evidenced by guys like Sinclair, McKenzie and Wilkie etc all having their best seasons at AFL level.

I tried to do a best 22 with adding a few players I hope take the next step and there’s still some solid players missing out.

If we can land a JDG, another KPP and bring in a few extra young mids through the draft then a lot can change.
Just need to look at Collingwood 2021 v 2022.

Ultimately it comes down to gameplan and the mindset of the players to be able to take that next step.

My hopeful best 22 come round 1.

Paton	Howard	Wilkie
Coffield	Battle	Sinclair
McKenzie	Steele	Wood
Gresham	King	Membrey
Higgins	Sharman	Butler
Marshall	Crouch	Windhager
Int: Ross	Clark	Hayes
Owens

Emg: NWM, Bytel, Webster, Billings, Jones

 

[plugger66]

Maybe it’s the rose coloured glasses after not having to watch us play the last 5 weeks, but I think our list isn’t in as bad a shape as what everyone keeps harping on about.

We will literally only have 3 blokes over 30 next year (possibly 2 if we offload Hill). With Geelong just winning a flag with the oldest list ever, is it overstated about having players over 30 anyway?

Most of our list is still between 23 and 27, so they should be either in or entering their prime, which is evidenced by guys like Sinclair, McKenzie and Wilkie etc all having their best seasons at AFL level.

I tried to do a best 22 with adding a few players I hope take the next step and there’s still some solid players missing out.

If we can land a JDG, another KPP and bring in a few extra young mids through the draft then a lot can change.
Just need to look at Collingwood 2021 v 2022.

Ultimately it comes down to gameplan and the mindset of the players to be able to take that next step.

My hopeful best 22 come round 1.

Paton	Howard	Wilkie
Coffield	Battle	Sinclair
McKenzie	Steele	Wood
Gresham	King	Membrey
Higgins	Sharman	Butler
Marshall	Crouch	Windhager
Int: Ross	Clark	Hayes
Owens

Emg: NWM, Bytel, Webster, Billings, Jones

Age isn’t an issue. Stars and depth are. Degoey certainly helps the mids but we need owens and windhanger to come on. Tge ideal midfield has one of crouch or Ross not playing. We could go from same same to degoey steele windhanger owens gresh one of crouch or Ross. That is so different to same same. We can go from below mid to way above mid. Relies on huge luck. Not degoey. He seems certain but the younger guys