Where to from here?

[kirky]

Disagree completely.

Was one of the few members of the midfield brigade who could actually hold his head up high in actually making an attempt to combat the white tide and get stuck in.

Where was Reilly? Where was Goodwin? Where was Thompson?

There were far too many shirking the issue once again, yet it's always Shirley who is singled out.

If you want to talk about giving the ball away, let's have a look at our usually immaculate back six. Two HTB goals conceded in the first quarter alone from Rutten and Johncock.

Just an abysmal performance all-round.

Can't disagree with that however from where I was standing Shirley seemed to be treading water and was in no-mans land for most of the day.

The back 6 coughed up a number of goals all day (2 in the first quarter were inexcusable) - very ordinary and this comes back to the midfield creating pressure.

Only positive is we played generally crap and lost by 2 odd goals.

Trade bait - Reilly.

 

[Alex99]

sorry that training taper oe extra hard training in the last month does not cut it....you know why because every other club in finals contenetion is doing exactly the same thing.....including freo......the difference is the other teams arent splashing all over the papers...west coast is doing it and so are the swans...100% guranteed

You are more or less saying because your team is tierd and you are battling

which is rubbish...injuries fair enough thats probaly more the reason....and a fwd line which doesnt have much variety...also mcleaod picking up dinky uncontested possession across half back doesnt scare anyone.....Why doesnt Craig throw Mcleod fwd every now and then...or onto the ball for a 10 minute burst.....for all the plaudits of Neil Craig he doesnt come up with much imagination during the game...hey not bagging the guy at all because he's been great but when your getting beaten you have to throw things around a bit i think

Excuse me you goose, the West Coast Eagles (who ever was interviewed after the match confirmed this) had a very light session leading up to the game against the Adelaide Crows. They only trained once on the Wednesday night for about an hour especially to be fresh for the game, the other sessions were either in the pool or at the beach used as recovery.

How the **** could they have been having extra tough training sessions at the pool or the beach.

No one is using the tapering training sessions as an excuse, it’s simply a fact and if we lose it has to be put down to poor management on Neil Craig’s behalf. That’s not an excuse.

 

[Stiffy_18]

You implied that Robert Shirley had a good game today but how could this be so when his primary role in the side is to stop someone and it didn’t happen.

He plays in the midfield as a negative stopper, today his job was Josh Carr and Josh Carr was one of the more influential players in the last quarter for the Dockers, he didn’t do his job so how could have he had a good game? I would give the money to Josh Carr in that duo.

If Robert Shirley’s use of the ball was very good then that is a bonus but don’t forget he is in the side to be a tagger. If he doesn’t do his job he hasn’t had a good game.

Goodwin was tagged by Mathew Carr and Brent Reilly was beaten by Heath Black but we are talking about Robert Shirley and his effectiveness to the Adelaide Crows midfield.

Thanks Mr. Craig for letting us know what his role was today

 

[Alex99]

Thanks Mr. Craig for letting us know what his role was today

Roll your eyes as much as you like, but we all know Robert Shirley is in the side because of his defensive ability, not his offensive attributes he brings to the game.

Next week we play the Western Bulldogs and his most would think he will line up to tag Scott West.

If Scott West gets 30 touches and the Western Bulldogs win the game and Robert Shirley get 30 touches has he fulfilled his role in the team? I say no because he has not done played his part in the midfield system

If Scott West get between 5 and 10 touches and we win the game, it doesn’t matter what Robert Shirley does as he has done his job.

 

[kirky]

It's interesting how much WCE fans take an interest in Adelaide's progress - especially after a Crows loss.

I thought it was an isolated curiosity, restricted to the main board and Bay 13, but clearly the phenomenon is virulent and on the verge of outbreak.

Worse than spam emails. Need to update Bigfooty's anti-virus software.

 

[Cabbie]

No one is using the tapering training sessions as an excuse, it’s simply a fact and if we lose it has to be put down to poor management on Neil Craig’s behalf. That’s not an excuse.

when you mention it automatically is read as an exscuse...how about saying the fremantle football club was sensational in winning at a venue that is hostile and under real pressure as they are playing for thier season

I would say that and combined with Burton and Roo missing was the reason for the loss.....

 

[Crowz Gal]

How much did we stuff up with our handballs. Several times we either handballed it to someone in the direct vicinity of freo players, or handballed TO the freo players.

 

[Alex99]

when you mention it automatically is read as an exscuse...how about saying the fremantle football club was sensational in winning at a venue that is hostile and under real pressure as they are playing for thier season

I would say that and combined with Burton and Roo missing was the reason for the loss.....

Because under normal circumstances we should not have lost to Fremantle, we were playing at home and coming off a very tough month of training. The Adelaide Football club was flat as a tack today, we only generated about 15 mins of spark (during the 3rd quarter) and in the last we didn’t have the energy to over power Fremantle.

Fremantle won today and showed they are a very good football club with a lot of potential for the next 5 or 6 years. The Dockers deserve all the credit for winning but you also have to take into consideration the circumstances that the Crows have been training under, to assume they would beat us in other circumstances (in the finals in a few weeks) would be a huge mistake.

This week NC will implement a few recovery sessions to freshen the player up so they can start preparing for the finals.


Like I said, not an excuse but circumstances that have to be taken into consideration.

 

[Alex99]

How much did we stuff up with our handballs. Several times we either handballed it to someone in the direct vicinity of freo players, or handballed TO the freo players.

Player skills and the decision making process breaks down once fatigue has set in, it was evident today that the player skills broke down during the second half of each quarter (other than the 3rd were we had a run on).

 

[lozstar]

How much did we stuff up with our handballs. Several times we either handballed it to someone in the direct vicinity of freo players, or handballed TO the freo players.

lesson 1 in training this week should be - learn how to kick the ****ing football!

 

[lozstar]

To put things bluntly: The hacks that surround your good players have finally been exposed through critical injuries.

Hahahahaha, who are these supposed hacks?

I spose then that Carlton's excuse for being bottom of the ladder is the good players are injured and you have too many hacks?

 

[maccas_no1]

Dont think we should be hitting the panic button just yet, I would be concerned if we went into the finals undeafeted.

Leg speed is a concern got caught far too often with the ball and have done for the last couple of weeks, is that due to extra workload at training????

Johncock as highlighted on another thread has been really down on form and confidence the last few weeks, his kick ins have been terrible and also some of his general play has been questionable, hopefully this will trun around soon.

Fremantle are a great side and I had crows98 before the game telling me we were going to trash them, I told him no, it will be a tough game and they deserve respect, any club that wins five games in a row does.

We should get Riccuito, Torney back next week, really need to work on getting a settled finals line up now.

 

[King Elvis]

Yep, the Crows need a bit of tinkering around the edges, but nothing too serious.

At the moment we've lost to the Number 2 team in the comp at home, we've beaten Collingwood who were in the 4, and we've lost ot Freo - probably the form team of the Comp. And we came close to beating them with basically one ruck-man, and numerous big outs.


Add to this the injuries and suspensions we've sustained, and the supposed heavy training workload.

It's not the end of the world, as I said, a bit of tinkering here and there, and we should be back in action.

 

[fentanyl]

sorry that training taper oe extra hard training in the last month does not cut it....you know why because every other club in finals contenetion is doing exactly the same thing.....including freo......the difference is the other teams arent splashing all over the papers...west coast is doing it and so are the swans...100% guranteed

i have to play the devil's advocate and agree with this comment.
it may have explained the perplexing performances vs the roos and hawks, 2 games in which we looked below par, as well as the WCE and woods matches.

today showed that the problems run a lot deeper than just fatigue:
poor midfield, impotent attack, and the defence giving up goals.
and don't think the birdman and roo are gonna rescue us. if it's true that burton's injury is worse than initially feared, then we won't be seeing him til season 07. and roo's injury is the best kept secret since the coca cola recipe.

 

[King Elvis]

The Crows quite simply haven't played to the system which served them so well all year.

Whether it's due to injuries and not having the cattle to do it, or mental and physical fatigue preventing us from playing to the gameplan, it's that simple.

I think even when we were dominating, we all knew that the style of game the Crows were playing was extremely effective, but also extremely hard on the players.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Not the end of the world but nevertheless some really bad signs at the moment. Injuries appear to be finally taking there toll. We need all our guns to be fit and firing by finals or we could be in trouble. It's not just the number of injuries its also the number of players whose form varies dramatically from week to week. Certain players ( I won't name them ) lack of composure when real pressure is applied is a major concern.

 

[J-Train]

You implied that Robert Shirley had a good game today but how could this be so when his primary role in the side is to stop someone and it didn’t happen.

He plays in the midfield as a negative stopper, today his job was Josh Carr and Josh Carr was one of the more influential players in the last quarter for the Dockers, he didn’t do his job so how could have he had a good game? I would give the money to Josh Carr in that duo.

If Robert Shirley’s use of the ball was very good then that is a bonus but don’t forget he is in the side to be a tagger. If he doesn’t do his job he hasn’t had a good game.

Goodwin was tagged by Mathew Carr and Brent Reilly was beaten by Heath Black but we are talking about Robert Shirley and his effectiveness to the Adelaide Crows midfield.

I'll defend Rob again because I know he works his ar*e off each week and does a lot of the little things that go unnoticed by many who just see the flashy lace-out stuff produced by the likes of McLeod, Goodwin etc etc.
Head-to-head with Josh Carr he didn't fare too badly and he absorbed some of the niggle that Carr normally gives out to put the A-list on-ballers off their game. Carr had 19 possies, Shirley had 16 possies, of which 11 where the "sharp give out of the congestion" or link-up handball to running players type. Shirley also had five tackles, second only to Bodey who had 7 an is known for his tenacious tackling. The other thing the stats tell us, Rob did not take a mark all day, that is, all his possessions were gathered in the thick of the action and often under pressure, not like others that swan around getting 10-12 possies a game by kicking sideways or backwards, taking the mark, settling and kicking it backwards or sideways again. Rob is pro-active when he has the ball, is good at the little off load and always follows up with a shepherd to clear the space/take the heat of his teammates. Because his disposal by foot is often not lace out and on the chest of a teammate, he has become the Crows midfield fall guy. The team as a whole is playing poorly and it is unfair to single out one bloke who is not as naturally gifted as some of his teammates but still busts his hump every week. Who is to say that Carr wouldnt have had 30 possies if Rob didnt play on him?

To those who say Skipworth needs to come into the midfield, well I'd just about guarentee any follower he lined up on would get 25-30 kicks because of the unaccountable nature of Skipworth's footy - he plays wide and runs hard to space get his kicks trying to simply outgun his opponent with weight of possessions, Shirls is a completely different style of player and is there for the bodywork, pressure and in-and-under gruntwork, not for big numbers - a comparable player would be Baker from the Sainters.

The defense rests your honour.

 

[West Coast 06]

It's interesting how much WCE fans take an interest in Adelaide's progress - especially after a Crows loss.

I thought it was an isolated curiosity, restricted to the main board and Bay 13, but clearly the phenomenon is virulent and on the verge of outbreak.

I think most of us are curious as you seem to be finding yourself in a similar situation to us last year. Both teams have dominated seasons throughout the year but have hit a patch of poor form and have suffered from injuries at the business end of the season. We did it in 2005, you are doing it now.

Probably why I wouldn't dream of writing off the Crows this year, they will find a way to win in the finals like we did last year, despite their form at the end of the H & A.

Here's hoping for an Eagles v Crows match on the 30th Sept, good luck.

 

[beartoo]

The boys looked knackered in the last quarter yesterday. Freo ran all over us. Something that isn't being considered here is that tiredness causes mistakes under pressure. The Crows as a whole look flat and exhausted. Hopefully the tapering off will freshen them up and the buzz will be back in their game.
There's a lot of talk about the place about other sides having worked out our game plan. This scenario has it that by running at us they are preventing our back 6 from running at them because our defenders are drawn outside the usual defensive zone. I'd say that if the tapering works and we regain or normal run, sides won't be able to do what WC, Freo and to a lesser extent the Pies have done.
One thing that was evident yesterday was that Freo playeer had a lot of running shots from 50 and out with the wind. This resulted in a couple of goals to them--2 that I can remember and maybe more. I'd like to see us take that option a bit more. We don't take many contested marks in the 50 (Neither does anyone else).

 

[Crow-mo]

I'll defend Rob again because I know he works his ar*e off each week and does a lot of the little things that go unnoticed by many who just see the flashy lace-out stuff produced by the likes of McLeod, Goodwin etc etc.
Head-to-head with Josh Carr he didn't fare too badly and he absorbed some of the niggle that Carr normally gives out to put the A-list on-ballers off their game. Carr had 19 possies, Shirley had 16 possies, of which 11 where the "sharp give out of the congestion" or link-up handball to running players type. Shirley also had five tackles, second only to Bodey who had 7 an is known for his tenacious tackling. The other thing the stats tell us, Rob did not take a mark all day, that is, all his possessions were gathered in the thick of the action and often under pressure, not like others that swan around getting 10-12 possies a game by kicking sideways or backwards, taking the mark, settling and kicking it backwards or sideways again. Rob is pro-active when he has the ball, is good at the little off load and always follows up with a shepherd to clear the space/take the heat of his teammates. Because his disposal by foot is often not lace out and on the chest of a teammate, he has become the Crows midfield fall guy. The team as a whole is playing poorly and it is unfair to single out one bloke who is not as naturally gifted as some of his teammates but still busts his hump every week. Who is to say that Carr wouldnt have had 30 possies if Rob didnt play on him?

To those who say Skipworth needs to come into the midfield, well I'd just about guarentee any follower he lined up on would get 25-30 kicks because of the unaccountable nature of Skipworth's footy - he plays wide and runs hard to space get his kicks trying to simply outgun his opponent with weight of possessions, Shirls is a completely different style of player and is there for the bodywork, pressure and in-and-under gruntwork, not for big numbers - a comparable player would be Baker from the Sainters.

The defense rests your honour.

convincing, and persuasive. well argued

 

[macca23]

I'll defend Rob again because I know he works his ar*e off each week and does a lot of the little things that go unnoticed by many who just see the flashy lace-out stuff produced by the likes of McLeod, Goodwin etc etc.
Head-to-head with Josh Carr he didn't fare too badly and he absorbed some of the niggle that Carr normally gives out to put the A-list on-ballers off their game. Carr had 19 possies, Shirley had 16 possies, of which 11 where the "sharp give out of the congestion" or link-up handball to running players type. Shirley also had five tackles, second only to Bodey who had 7 an is known for his tenacious tackling. The other thing the stats tell us, Rob did not take a mark all day, that is, all his possessions were gathered in the thick of the action and often under pressure, not like others that swan around getting 10-12 possies a game by kicking sideways or backwards, taking the mark, settling and kicking it backwards or sideways again. Rob is pro-active when he has the ball, is good at the little off load and always follows up with a shepherd to clear the space/take the heat of his teammates. Because his disposal by foot is often not lace out and on the chest of a teammate, he has become the Crows midfield fall guy. The team as a whole is playing poorly and it is unfair to single out one bloke who is not as naturally gifted as some of his teammates but still busts his hump every week. Who is to say that Carr wouldnt have had 30 possies if Rob didnt play on him?

To those who say Skipworth needs to come into the midfield, well I'd just about guarentee any follower he lined up on would get 25-30 kicks because of the unaccountable nature of Skipworth's footy - he plays wide and runs hard to space get his kicks trying to simply outgun his opponent with weight of possessions, Shirls is a completely different style of player and is there for the bodywork, pressure and in-and-under gruntwork, not for big numbers - a comparable player would be Baker from the Sainters.

The defense rests your honour.

Great post, and accurate as well.

We have a few posters who only notice the flashy play or the easy gets, and take no account for those that do the hard yards.

Nice to see Shirls get his true recognition.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Has everyone worked out our game plan? Maybe, but why do you think we have closed sessions now??? Why would we be spending all of the game time in these games?? To show the competition our new game plans? To proove the Rooch wrong??

The answer is quite simply, we are priming ourselves for 3 and a half weeks time.

It is astonishing to see that almost 99% of the people on this board have worried themselves to death over losing next to meaningless games in the context of winnign a premiership.

You guys are looking short term.

Neil Craig is looking long term.

If you don't agree with me now, in 4 rounds time you will be asking for a nice serving of fairy bread.

The next few weeks may not be the most polished football you'll ever see, but come September, we will be back to our devastating best.

Lets see if you guys make any sense of this.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few of these 'new game plans' in a match environment before the finals, you know, just to see if they work.

One weapon we've lost is our kick ins. In the first half of the season we would huddle at CHB and players would run outwards into space, like the spokes on a wheel. Devastatingly effective. No one could figure out why the opposition would go man on man in the huddle rather than put a few players out in the space. Finally they have cottoned on. Kicking in has become a much harder job. I don't think it is Johncock's kicking that has gone downhill, rather the task has just gotten harder.

One thing I noticed in the Freo game was that we were desperatey trying to generate run off half back. We were playing on and handballing at every opportunity, regardless of the pressure that was around us. It seemed like we were trying to recapture a bit of our dash but weren't picking and choosing the right time to do so. We looked like a team playing to instruction rather than playing instinctively.

Typically this happens when you are under pressure. Something that once seemed easy and happened naturally suddenly becomes the hardest thing in the world. Look at a golfer. When he is under the pump in a close finish he will worry about his grip, his stance, his swing etc. Hence the choke. When things are going well, when he is in the 'zone,' these things happen automatically, without conscious thought.

The trouble is, the worse you are performing the more you think about what you should be doing, rather than just playing on instinct.

 

[AAMI]

The boys looked knackered in the last quarter yesterday. Freo ran all over us. Something that isn't being considered here is that tiredness causes mistakes under pressure. The Crows as a whole look flat and exhausted. Hopefully the tapering off will freshen them up and the buzz will be back in their game.
There's a lot of talk about the place about other sides having worked out our game plan. This scenario has it that by running at us they are preventing our back 6 from running at them because our defenders are drawn outside the usual defensive zone. I'd say that if the tapering works and we regain or normal run, sides won't be able to do what WC, Freo and to a lesser extent the Pies have done.
One thing that was evident yesterday was that Freo playeer had a lot of running shots from 50 and out with the wind. This resulted in a couple of goals to them--2 that I can remember and maybe more. I'd like to see us take that option a bit more. We don't take many contested marks in the 50 (Neither does anyone else).

Good comment.

Interesting in Rooch's article today in the Tiser that he suggests that the Crows need another game plan because other sides have worked out how to counteract it.

Yet in the same article he mentioned that the Brisbane Lions stuck to their same game plan in 2001, 2002 and 2003. Other sides couldn't beat them because they were just too good!

Stick to your guns Crows. You are good enough! Let the taper work and burn the other sides off come finals time with the hard running and ferocious tackling game that you had mastered until recently.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yet in the same article he mentioned that the Brisbane Lions stuck to their same game plan in 2001, 2002 and 2003. Other sides couldn't beat them because they were just too good!

The Brisbane game plan was very simple though.
1) They knocked, punched, moved and tapped the ball forward at every opportunity
2) They attacked the ball and body with ferocious intensity
3) They kicked long to two big, quality forwards

The beauty of the game plan was its simplicity. There was nowhere where these tactics could get broken down. The Crows style is a bit different with lots of handball, running and precise skills. The worry is that this style of game won't stand up to the blowtorch intensity of finals footy.