Analysis Where to play Maynard and the flow on

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didaksrightfoot

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#53
(Could do with a poll)
---

Whats the obsession with always trying to turn small defenders/forwards into midfielders? (Not just us - all clubs do it).

IMO, Maynard should stay as a small defender/HB/defensive wing. He does not have the decision making or football IQ to play in the middle regularly.
Have him play from the defensive half, and use those runs and booming kick when space opens up and opposition defenders are not focused on him.
Put him in the midfield and suddenly he is regularly manned up, and he has to make split second decisions consistently - I just dont think he's that type of player.

All this discussion reminds me of Lumumba. In 2010 he played that role perfectly - had the space and time to make big runs out of defence without being under much pressure. Once he was moved to the wing, it became apparent that he was lacking in his disposal and his ability to make those decisions under pressure.

I think people have been consistently over-rating this part of Maynards game based on a couple of times a game you see him running through as an overlap player who is un-manned. Let him stay as a primary defender and keep doing that... put him regularly in the midfield and I think he will be quickly exposed and people will be very quickly calling for him to be dropped.
 

sr36

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#54
+1, only other thing to add is that Maynard has demonstrated that he can be a goal kicking midfielder.
12 career goals in 51 AFL games. No goals in the back half of the year when he played midfield. I like Bruzzy and there's a possibility that he can become this, but 'demonstrated'?
 

sr36

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#55
(Could do with a poll)
---

Whats the obsession with always trying to turn small defenders/forwards into midfielders? (Not just us - all clubs do it).

IMO, Maynard should stay as a small defender/HB/defensive wing. He does not have the decision making or football IQ to play in the middle regularly.
Have him play from the defensive half, and use those runs and booming kick when space opens up and opposition defenders are not focused on him.
Put him in the midfield and suddenly he is regularly manned up, and he has to make split second decisions consistently - I just dont think he's that type of player.

All this discussion reminds me of Lumumba. In 2010 he played that role perfectly - had the space and time to make big runs out of defence without being under much pressure. Once he was moved to the wing, it became apparent that he was lacking in his disposal and his ability to make those decisions under pressure.

I think people have been consistently over-rating this part of Maynards game based on a couple of times a game you see him running through as an overlap player who is un-manned. Let him stay as a primary defender and keep doing that... put him regularly in the midfield and I think he will be quickly exposed and people will be very quickly calling for him to be dropped.
I tend to agree in general with the strange obsession for everyone to develop into a mid, but think you're underestimating the need for excellent decision making in defence. I worry about him as a defender, as I think his natural inclination is simply to attack the footy as hard as possible in all circumstances and be damned to the consequences. It's an attitude that isn't always the best for a defender of clever, slippery forwards - which is the player type that he is destined to man if he stays a defender. I'm happy for him to be trialled in other roles.
 

JB1975

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#57
(Could do with a poll)
---

Whats the obsession with always trying to turn small defenders/forwards into midfielders? (Not just us - all clubs do it).

IMO, Maynard should stay as a small defender/HB/defensive wing. He does not have the decision making or football IQ to play in the middle regularly.
Have him play from the defensive half, and use those runs and booming kick when space opens up and opposition defenders are not focused on him.
Put him in the midfield and suddenly he is regularly manned up, and he has to make split second decisions consistently - I just dont think he's that type of player.

All this discussion reminds me of Lumumba. In 2010 he played that role perfectly - had the space and time to make big runs out of defence without being under much pressure. Once he was moved to the wing, it became apparent that he was lacking in his disposal and his ability to make those decisions under pressure.

I think people have been consistently over-rating this part of Maynards game based on a couple of times a game you see him running through as an overlap player who is un-manned. Let him stay as a primary defender and keep doing that... put him regularly in the midfield and I think he will be quickly exposed and people will be very quickly calling for him to be dropped.
In Maynard's case, I think some of the determination to push him up the ground comes from our need to have more physical presence around the contest. He doesn't have as much polish as JDG but he's got just as much --or more-- grunt as well as a healthy capacity to hit the scoreboard.

You're right, his decision-making will likely get exposed throughout the season, but his evolution to date has been impressive and we can hope it will continue in the middle/along the wing.
 

brockbruiser

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#58
Why not try him in the midfield? I don't think there's an obsession in trying to turn small defenders/forwards it's more along the lines that players these days need to be able to play in more than one position. It provides flexibility. If we never tried Swannie in the midfield when he used to play forward we would never have known the gun midfielder he might become.

Maynard is a bull, and was played as a midfielder towards the end of the u/18s season and showed real promise. Additionally his bother has shown alot in the VFL since playing midfield.

There was always hope he would turn into a midfielder with his endurance the only thing holding him back. No harm in trialling it, especially during the preseason, it allows coaches to have contingencies in place should players become injured or so forth.
 

loki04

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#59
My preference is off a wing.
Treloar to wing coming off being fed on the break. Utilise that pace better.

Has to play half back.
Why?

Murray, Crisp, Langdon, Sharenburgular, Varcoe and Howezat.

A lot of great Mids had an apprenticeship as a HB early days even the great N.Buckley (also Dangerfield).
 

swoop42

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#60
For Collingwood to progress as a side both Maynard and de Goey must get serious midfield minutes in 2018 IMHO.

If that's at the expense of Pendlebury as the elder statesman of the midfield group then so be it.

Unfortunately as good as Pendlebury has been much of his prime has been used up now with a team not competing in September and despite his talent it hasn't proven enough to make the difference and elevate us back into finals contention.

That isn't a knock on Pendlebury or the midfield group who as a whole has been our biggest strength but with other areas of the ground still a work in progress freshening up the midfield group with two young bulls who can push forward seems an easier route to take for immediate improvement in 2018 than sticking with the status quo and hoping Cox proves a revelation up forward or Wells plays 20 games.
 

The Sherriff

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#61
In Maynard's case, I think some of the determination to push him up the ground comes from our need to have more physical presence around the contest. He doesn't have as much polish as JDG but he's got just as much --or more-- grunt as well as a healthy capacity to hit the scoreboard.
I dunno. Just re-watching Rd 23 for ****s and giggles and Maynard was clean, aggressive and quick - moreso than pretty much anyone on the ground. His pass to hit up Elliot for a shot on goal in Rd2 out of traffic was sublime.
 

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JB1975

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#62
I dunno. Just re-watching Rd 23 for ****s and giggles and Maynard was clean, aggressive and quick - moreso than pretty much anyone on the ground. His pass to hit up Elliot for a shot on goal in Rd2 out of traffic was sublime.
I dunno either, or at least I don't feel categorical about it. My sense is that JDG makes better decisions in heavy traffic/under pressure, but I think that (a) the gap between them isn't that wide, and (b) Maynard could close the gap soon enough.
 

jackcass

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#63
In Maynard's case, I think some of the determination to push him up the ground comes from our need to have more physical presence around the contest. He doesn't have as much polish as JDG but he's got just as much --or more-- grunt as well as a healthy capacity to hit the scoreboard.

You're right, his decision-making will likely get exposed throughout the season, but his evolution to date has been impressive and we can hope it will continue in the middle/along the wing.
I'm not too concerned about either Maynard's decision making or disposal. Think many of the (perceived) issues in these areas are largely due to fitness and hence why we've seen improvement over the journey and he'll be fine longer term. I think he'll always be prone to an occasional brain fade but I think they're due to limited footy IQ rather than anything else.
 
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#65
Maynard and De Goey are real exciting. Two men who are going to put their aggression to use and in a way that will make their teammates stand back in awe. They both have an affection to win.

I love his attitude to be the best he can be, something I am sure Bucks is thrilled about, along with Maynard who wants to improve his running capacity and get to another level.
 

mike123

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#66
12 career goals in 51 AFL games. No goals in the back half of the year when he played midfield. I like Bruzzy and there's a possibility that he can become this, but 'demonstrated'?
He's kicked 12 goals whilst mainly playing in the backline I think you just backed up his point
 

Mark W

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#67
I suspect we see the game very differently because I couldn't disagree more. Crisps role off half back, his metres gained, disposal efficiency and possession numbers I thought were approaching elite by position. I think we've found one big piece of the jigsaw puzzle with Crisp and i'm very comfortable with him in defence.

What would your small defensive group look like?
Im not comfortable with Crisp or Greenwood, or Phillips or any players with questionable disposal in any position whilst two of our best players and best midfielders also have questionable disposal (Treloar and Adams). Our major weakness is not winning possession, (Treloar and Adams are guns at that) it is poor conversion. Our defence wins contests, our midfield wins contests and then we dispose of the ball poorly giving our forward line little chance to convert. If we want to improve as a team we need to become better balanced, less grunt, and more silk. We need to surround Adams and Treloar with good disposers of the footy. This is not to say that the 3 I mentioned are useless or offer nothing, but for a team whose weakness is poor disposal, poor conversion, we need to be ruthless on these types.

My defensive group? Well while we are well off for medium sized intercept defenders, we are weak in the small running players. I would definitely play Varcoe for some run and decent decision making. If we can push Maynard and/or De Goey into midfield then playing one of the experienced mids like Pendles makes some sense. We played surprisingly well in the midfield without him at the end of last year. If Stephenson is any good, it may free up WHE to play HBF, he played very well in the last game against Melbourne. Id be giving Aish every chance as he has played some decent footy in the VFL at HBF (though I worry greatly about his lack of intensity). WHE, Varcoe Pendles and Aish are all miles better disposers of the footy then Crispy...

I will also be very interested in whether Murray or Appleby are any good...

But, in short, we simply have to improve the quality of our teams disposals, and show less faith in the lion hearted battlers who dont use the footy well
 

Apex36

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#68
This is how i'd line up in the back line:

Murray Dunn Varcoe
Crisp Reid Howe


No idea how you fit Scharenberg and Langdon into that.
In fact, apart from our forward line, it's ridiculously hard to pick a best 22 with a full list to select from.
No idea how you slot Murray straight in to the 22 when he’s never even played a senior game. Seems more of a stretch than Scharenberg or Langdon.
 

THATSGOLD

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#73
The only need I see is the need for him to prove he’s actually senior quality before declaring him in the best 22.
Same with Stephenson, who is very skinny and probably going to get found out at senior level and maybe even reserves with bigger bodies than the TAC cup.
 

Apex36

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#74
Same with Stephenson, who is very skinny and probably going to get found out at senior level and maybe even reserves with bigger bodies than the TAC cup.
There are plenty of skinny first year players who’ve been able to cut it with the big boys. The kids got enough skill to make up for his smaller frame, but I’d wager he’ll start in the VFL before being thrown to the wolves.
 

Soups

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#75
There are plenty of skinny first year players who’ve been able to cut it with the big boys. The kids got enough skill to make up for his smaller frame, but I’d wager he’ll start in the VFL before being thrown to the wolves.
Just look at Jack Martin, he’s still as skinny as he was when he debuted lol.

At the end of the day if JS is tough enough, he’ll play. He has a good mix of inside and outside and for me I don’t think it’s going to be a problem.
 
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