Where We Can Improve

[Goldust]

SKILLS. Until we learn to hit targets by foot and handball constructively (that is to benefit a teammate and not over use the football), we won't be going anywhere above our current 9th ranking.

If my life depended on a Richmond player hitting a moving target from 40 metres away, I would feel kinda secure with Nathan Brown and Cameron Howat having the football in their hands and on most occasions Joel Bowden. That leaves a lot of our guys who would be putting my life at risk. It would be bye, bye Goldy!!!!

 

[Woodstock]

We desparately require these 5 players to all step up in the midfield this year:

Deledio
Tambling
Polo
Foley
Howat

These guys are our future midfield. They need to develop both in the offensive and defensive aspects of their game. Lots of "gut running" to create opportunities when we attack, and likewise to help the backline out when we're defending. This does not happen at the moment and is one of the main reasons we struggle and shall continue to do so, should this not change.

Our backline is sound, it's just always under so much pressure as there's little to no support from up the field.

 

[Weaver]

Right NOW our midfield is one of the worst in the league ... if not the worst.

We are all praying that a bunch of largely unproven kids (Deledio, Tambling, Howat, Foley, Polo etc) all stand-up and are able to go head to head with the likes of Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Baker and Harvey.

Ain't goin' to happen. Not yet. Kids don't win games in this league.

Playing so many kids hurts us in the short-term. They don't have the stamina, strength, smarts or consistency to apply pressure in the midfield. Deledio and Tambling can't tackle Ricciuto and Goodwin over and over again. The effort wears them down. You try bringing down a 90kg tackle bag 20 times. Forget all the other running, bumping and contesting - you'd be stuffed from laying tackles.

That will change in time.

We are the worst team in the league for applying pressure. That is bad.

We are the worst team in the league for being pressured (opponents tackling, chasing, bumping us). That is bad.

Add the two together and that is catastrophic.

It means that opponents find it easy to execute skills under little pressure, and we find it impossible under immense pressure.

Until we develop a genuine finals-calibre midfield, then talk of game-plans, backlines and forward set-ups are largely academic. Our backline is overwhelmed, our forward line is starved, our running players are choked of supply and time. We can't judge how well our guys are kicking when they have no targets to kick to and are under pressure when they kick.

Our midfield is basically Johnson, Tuck and Tivendale. Brown is mostly a forward. J. Bowden is a defender. Newman off a knee, Coughlan out again. Krakouer a forward. Pettifer is a forward. Hyde an honest tryer.

You take Johnson, Tuck and Tivendale in against any team in this league and you are toast most weeks.

In a league where you need 10-12 experienced midfield contributers we have 3 (and plenty on this forum don't rate any of the 3).

For the Saints any contribution from Andrew McQualter (2nd year midfielder - 1st round draft pick) is a bit of a bonus. They can win games without him. On the other hand it is an absolute necessity for us to have Deledio, Tambling, Polo, Foley, Howat, Raines, Meyer, White, Hartigan do the work.

The core of our team is a group of 9-10 kids with less than 50 games in them.

We need another 3 seasons of games into our young midfielders. When Deledio, Polo, Foley etc are 100 game players with 4-5 seasons experince and 6 preseasons in them - then we will be able to compete in midfield.

 

[Weaver]

Just saying we are way off the mark IMO. Our blokes always seem to develop longer than other teams to.

Sherman dominates at the Lions
McLean
Pearce
Surjan
Jones (DEES)

I could name a million, none from us...Why?

There is a real grass-is-greener effect which frustrates me plenty.

Not a criticism of you Sante, but lots of people only casually follow teams other than Richmond. Watch an occasional match. See a 'kid' they haven't seen much of and get jealous. Why don't our kids come from nowhere like everyone elses?

Surjan and McLean were in the 2003 draft with Foley, Hartigan and Raines.
Pearce and Sherman were in the 2004 draft with Deledio, Polo, Tambling, Pattison, Meyer

I don't think there is a huge development difference. I think our guys suffer from having to be the 4th best midfielder whereas McLean benefits from being down the pecking order.

 

[Calcium Man]

Our midfield is basically Johnson, Tuck and Tivendale. Brown is mostly a forward. J. Bowden is a defender. Newman off a knee, Coughlan out again. Krakouer a forward. Pettifer is a forward. Hyde an honest tryer.

You take Johnson, Tuck and Tivendale in against any team in this league and you are toast most weeks.

This is really one of the most frustrating aspects of Frawley's reign, and there are plenty, the lack of foresight in drafting kids, especially midfielders.

Our current midfield has effectively made deledio our most dangerous mid so he gets most of the attention from the opposition. And yet people, especially opposition fans, complain he doesnt do enough. Everyother side in the comp has a least one star midfielder to hide their kids behind. We have none!

 

[PLSC]

keep the quality coming boys seems like all the fluff are away for the long weekend

 

[Goldust]

This is really one of the most frustrating aspects of Frawley's reign, and there are plenty, the lack of foresight in drafting kids, especially midfielders.

Our current midfield has effectively made deledio our most dangerous mid so he gets most of the attention from the opposition. And yet people, especially opposition fans, complain he doesnt do enough. Everyother side in the comp has a least one star midfielder to hide their kids behind. We have none!

WILL defend Wallace to the hilt and think he has done a pretty handy job draft-wise over his three seasons, except in one key area. We have drafted specifically for the midfield and running half back flank types...almost exclusively. Three drafts have tossd up just three bigger bodies. Riewoldt in 2006 (for the 2007 season), Hughes in 2005 and Pattison in 2004. To my way of thinking, that's not enough. Understand fully that our midfielders will not be able to compete with more seasoned midfielders until they get more experience and bulk up, but that may not eventuate unless we get some bigger bodies around them to protect them. We don't seem to have those types. Richo and Simmonds and the like are hardly enforcer-types. Schulz - injury prone, Gaspar - not much bulk. Polak would want to have plenty of strength!!!

 

[Calcium Man]

WILL defend Wallace to the hilt and think he has done a pretty handy job draft-wise over his three seasons, except in one key area. We have drafted specifically for the midfield and running half back flank types...almost exclusively. Three drafts have tossd up just three bigger bodies. Riewoldt in 2006 (for the 2007 season), Hughes in 2005 and Pattison in 2004. To my way of thinking, that's not enough. Understand fully that our midfielders will not be able to compete with more seasoned midfielders until they get more experience and bulk up, but that may not eventuate unless we get some bigger bodies around them to protect them. We don't seem to have those types. Richo and Simmonds and the like are hardly enforcer-types. Schulz - injury prone, Gaspar - not much bulk. Polak would want to have plenty of strength!!!

Wallace seems to have drafted us back into the modern game, but we can only really compare it to frawleys efforts. I agree we have no real big bodied mids or enforcers. Polo is our only real tough onballer from Wallaces first two drafts. Edwards looks to be a real goer and hopefully conners is another tough mid. But it is an area we really lack. We are a soft team and have been for a while. We dont have a Barry Hall, Josh Carr player who will hit back. The last one was Flemming. This is a reason i really hope jackson can come on this year, he can do this.

 

[Calcium Man]

keep the quality coming boys seems like all the fluff are away for the long weekend

Agree completely. This is the first time i have posted a lot in awhile.

 

[_RT_]

Perhaps Wallace's belief that footy has turned into an un-contested run fest has some merit then. It seems Wallace has decided to continue what he started at the Dogs which saw them have plenty of runners recruited with not so many highly skilled talls. I think Wallace believes he can get by with 2 KP players for each position. 2 FB's (Thursty and McGuane) 2 CHB's (Polak and Hughes) 2 CHF's (Riewoldt and Pattison) 2 FF's (Schulz & Richo) and 2 Ruckmen (Simmo and Knobel) add that a fleet of runners and you have an almost carbon copy of the Dogs and WCE. The players I have named can also be rotated to suit needs as well. Hence him wanting to develop Schulz and Hughes in the last 2 years as CHB's.

 

[Paddles]

Can someone remind me what we gave up or at least what we missed when we drafted Hudson and Houlihan?

 

[Goldust]

Can someone remind me what we gave up or at least what we missed when we drafted Hudson and Houlihan?

Hudson cost draft pic #49 in 2001. Pick ended up with St Kilda who slected Josh Houlihan (one of many Houlihans drafted to AFL ranks to never inspire!!!)

Adam Houlihan wa spick 63 in that same draft. Cost nothing. Geelong delisted him, so in effect he cost us nothing....well, nothing but the misery his insipid performances brought upon us.

In effect, the cost was zilch!

 

[_RT_]

Can someone remind me what we gave up or at least what we missed when we drafted Hudson and Houlihan?

About the only player missed on when drafting Houlihan was Brian Harris the others faded away pretty quick.

 

[Goldust]

About the only player missed on when drafting Houlihan was Brian Harris the others faded away pretty quick.

ACTUALLY Brad Miller was available. he's the kind of guy the Tigers lack...someone with some presence and some grunt.
Others still around were Adam Schneider, Dane Swan and Damon White, At least the first two would walk in to the line-up.
But perhaps wise we offloaded that pick when we did. Given our recruiting record of the Frawley era, every possibility Spud would have went for Mick Martyn, who went in the 60s, redrafted by the Kangaroos! Clearly past his "best use by" date at that stage!

 

[PLSC]

Perhaps Wallace's belief that footy has turned into an un-contested run fest has some merit then. It seems Wallace has decided to continue what he started at the Dogs which saw them have plenty of runners recruited with not so many highly skilled talls. I think Wallace believes he can get by with 2 KP players for each position. 2 FB's (Thursty and McGuane) 2 CHB's (Polak and Hughes) 2 CHF's (Riewoldt and Pattison) 2 FF's (Schulz & Richo) and 2 Ruckmen (Simmo and Knobel) add that a fleet of runners and you have an almost carbon copy of the Dogs and WCE. The players I have named can also be rotated to suit needs as well. Hence him wanting to develop Schulz and Hughes in the last 2 years as CHB's.

the only uncontested run-fests are when crap teams play

watch a finals game with the eagles, swans, or crows and you will see the bench mark

i hate everyones obsession with the dogs, were lucky to sneak into the 8 and thrashed an insipid scum then got their right wack in perth

they are all show

 

[sante]

There is a real grass-is-greener effect which frustrates me plenty.

Not a criticism of you Sante, but lots of people only casually follow teams other than Richmond. Watch an occasional match. See a 'kid' they haven't seen much of and get jealous. Why don't our kids come from nowhere like everyone elses?

Surjan and McLean were in the 2003 draft with Foley, Hartigan and Raines.
Pearce and Sherman were in the 2004 draft with Deledio, Polo, Tambling, Pattison, Meyer

I don't think there is a huge development difference. I think our guys suffer from having to be the 4th best midfielder whereas McLean benefits from being down the pecking order.

We have no depth, well not enough quality players to let the young ones develop...

This is really one of the most frustrating aspects of Frawley's reign, and there are plenty, the lack of foresight in drafting kids, especially midfielders.

Our current midfield has effectively made deledio our most dangerous mid so he gets most of the attention from the opposition. And yet people, especially opposition fans, complain he doesnt do enough. Everyother side in the comp has a least one star midfielder to hide their kids behind. We have none!

Its unfair on our kids...but it has to happen unfortunately.

 

[Goldust]

the only uncontested run-fests are when crap teams play

watch a finals game with the eagles, swans, or crows and you will see the bench mark

i hate everyones obsession with the dogs, were lucky to sneak into the 8 and thrashed an insipid scum then got their right wack in perth

they are all show

AGREE wholeheatedly (did I just say that? actually we agree on plenty!!) The Dogs were found wanting against a team that plays accountable football and has a few forward options to stretch their midget like defence (Harris excluded...who had a crap year anyway!)
I would think it not unlikely that the Dogs brand of flat out football contributed heavily to their injury toll last year. The human body is made to wear out!
And no one is telling me the Tigers wouldn't have beaten the Pies in that final!!!

 

[_RT_]

ACTUALLY Brad Miller was available. he's the kind of guy the Tigers lack...someone with some presence and some grunt.
Others still around were Adam Schneider, Dane Swan and Damon White, At least the first two would walk in to the line-up.
But perhaps wise we offloaded that pick when we did. Given our recruiting record of the Frawley era, every possibility Spud would have went for Mick Martyn, who went in the 60s, redrafted by the Kangaroos! Clearly past his "best use by" date at that stage!

Actually Miller (pick 55), Schnieder(60) and Swan (58) went before we drafted Houlihan(pick 63) it was the pick we used to get Hudson that we could have picked up one of those 3.

 

[Goldust]

Actually Miller (pick 55), Schnieder(60) and Swan (58) went before we drafted Houlihan(pick 63) it was the pick we used to get Hudson that we could have picked up one of those 3.

My mistake!!!

But I would've taken either of that trio before Huddo and Houligan!!

 

[Paddles]

They would all be handy additions. That draft keeps gnawing away at me; plus taking Fiora ahead of Pavlich. Arrrggggghhh

It's a recurring nightmare!

 

[_RT_]

the only uncontested run-fests are when crap teams play

watch a finals game with the eagles, swans, or crows and you will see the bench mark

i hate everyones obsession with the dogs, were lucky to sneak into the 8 and thrashed an insipid scum then got their right wack in perth

they are all show

What I meant was that Wallace started it at the Dogs and looks like he wants to finish the experiment at the Tigers, now whether it works or not has ye to be seen the Dogs had no talls last year and had to rely on Johnson to kick most of their goals. I hope that is not what he is thinking with the idea of sending Deleido forward or leaving Browny in the F50 for most of the game. Those type of skilled players in the middle delivering the ball lace out to Richo, Schulz, KK(I know some here don't like him but he will play) are whats going to make us competitive this year. Sure put Brown in the F50 but only for 50% of the game he is a player in the middle that can take some heat of Deledio by attracting the oppositions better tagger.

Also as stated last night if guys like Howat and Foley can maintain the level of clearances they were getting last year or improve on that then we have got more players in the middle that need attention of the opposition and to me thats what makes the better teams, WCE & Swans, better, the fact they have more than 1-2 players the other team has to watch. SIt on Judd and watch as Kerr, Cousins, Embley and co cut you up sit on 1 of them and Judd becomes a factor again. Same with the Swans sit on Goodes and J.Bolton, Kirk, Schnieder, Buchanan can hurt you swap to one of them and Goodes gets away. With the Tigers sit on Deledio and who else are they really afraid of, no-one.

But if Brown plays in the guts, Howat and Foley keep averaging their 18-20 touches and Deledio is left in the middle suddenly you have 4 guys capable fo 80+ possies combined that can hurt them and require more attention from the opposition. That leaves Johnson, Newman and perhaps Raines as run with types that can shut down while still getting the ball themselves.

Suddenly we have a bit more of a formidable midfield that has the opposition at least worried.

 

[moony]

gday all, just wanted the richmond supporters view on daniel jackson are you expecting much improvement from him this year and would you have him in your best 22?

cheers

 

[Paddles]

He'll need to show a hell of a lot if he is going to have his spot on the list next year.

Personally, I don't see how he can improve.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Very interesting thread this one. Lots of insightful comments.

Looking at the list anyone can see the problems in our midfield. The core of Tuck, Johnson and Tivendale would raise a sigh from most Richmond supporters and a giggle from most opposition supporters. Would it be worth putting Joel B in the middle? I know it would weaken the defence, but an experienced, big bodied ball magnet is just what we need while the kids develop. Joel is our best ball user, surely he needs to take more responsibility than as HBF!

 

[Calcium Man]

Very interesting thread this one. Lots of insightful comments.

Looking at the list anyone can see the problems in our midfield. The core of Tuck, Johnson and Tivendale would raise a sigh from most Richmond supporters and a giggle from most opposition supporters. Would it be worth putting Joel B in the middle? I know it would weaken the defence, but an experienced, big bodied ball magnet is just what we need while the kids develop. Joel is our best ball user, surely he needs to take more responsibility than as HBF!

Joel played midfield before his swap to HBF and was ordinary. The Occassional good game was not enough from him. He has since found consitency and confidence (tho im not sure that is a feature joel has ever lacked) in the back line and maybe he could have another stint in the midfield.