Prediction Where will Carlton finish in 2019?

[Fadge]

Yes, everyone is entitled to make judgments at any point and those same people are equally open to be criticised for those judgments at any point in time. On that note, your points - which you are entitled to make - are speculative and premature.

Surely both Carlton and Adelaide had to speculate to assess their decision to trade away their respective picks, did they not?

The alternate view is a first round pick equals a first round pick, which again is naive and negligent.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Surely both Carlton and Adelaide had to speculate to assess their decision to trade away their respective picks, did they not?

The alternate view is a first round pick equals a first round pick, which again is naive and negligent.

You made a point and it was reasonably summarised as speculative and premature. Your next post adds nothing factual to support the point you had made, yet you label others as simpletons.....

Pure gold there Fadge.

Congratulations, your membership has just been elevated to platinum.

 

[LordLucifer]

A broken clock is right twice a day

Excuse me, I have copyright on that phrase thank-you very much.

 

[LordLucifer]

Seriously dude, you think people can’t tell the difference between a troll post and a genuine post?

Leave it out Geoff ………....

If someone has a different opinion to yours it's not automatically "trolling", in fact it's a massive cop-out to play that card too.

If you don't like the comment then ignore it and move on.

 

[Fadge]

You made a point and it was reasonably summarised as speculative and premature. Your next post adds nothing factual to support the point you had made, yet you label others as simpletons.....

Pure gold there Fadge.

Congratulation, your memebership has just been elevated to platinum.

Jeepers, I just hope that whatever you do with your life you don't have to make any decisions that require foresight or speculation.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Jeepers, I just hope that whatever you do with your life you don't have to make any decisions that require foresight or speculation.

Please keep on topic Fadge, it’s hard for us simpletons to keep up with your greater intellect as it is.
I’m full up just trying to comprehend your amazing ability to see into the future, it’s wonderful stuff.

 

[gillo94]

Teams have different draft rankings! Gee who would thought?

It’s like some of you have absolutely no idea how sports teams draft players.

The draft is very hard to get right teams are constantly letting guns slip way too low.

And PR trying to justify the trade? There’s a video before the trade had even been completed of SOS talking about where he rated Stocker and how he hoped he would slip so he could trade and draft him.

He had a broken jaw. Missed Championships because of it. Clayton Oliver didn’t play championships either so I think good call by Blues recruiting team

 

[gillo94]

Seriously dude grow up, just because someone (in this case the majority) doesn't share your opinion doesn't make it trolling.

Yeah but season hasn’t even started yet and already stupid reasoning where clubs will finish. Hard to predict so early.

Bottom 6 don’t see too many changes. Port might even slip in there. Blues Suns StK Bulldogs Freo all in similar positions and might come down to who can really win the most games from that lot that can really jump the ladder and possibly play finals. I don’t think Blues will jump too much but can improve from last year with lot of recruits we have picked up.

 

[ManOfClay]

did you read what i said at all? the reason why we couldnt hold teams to a beatable score was because we had vfl players like mullet, shaw, o'shea running across the backline. compared to when we had a relatively fit back line in 2017 we had a season like brisbane did this year where we were close to winning a lot of games we played.
Edit: and no we didn't have a defensive game plan this year that was in 2017 (which we got s**t on by the media for boring football ) which again proves my point, this year we had an attacking game plan.

So what proven players have you added to make your backline any better? You don’t have a good backline by any measure, regardless of whether it is your strongest line.

If you had an attacking game plan this year then that isn’t looking good.

Where do you think problems with your team’s inability to defend and attack lie?

 

[RAPPA]

Surely both Carlton and Adelaide had to speculate to assess their decision to trade away their respective picks, did they not?

The alternate view is a first round pick equals a first round pick, which again is naive and negligent.

There would’ve been a raft of speculations and assessments undertaken to reach the decision they did. Assessing what your prospective pick is going to look like after a season without a game yet played is subject to many variables. You look at who you brought in through trades etc, team structures, game plans etc and base it around having a full list.

Who Carlton may or may not have picked up next year with its original first round pick is purely speculative and there’s no guarantee that that player will come good. Stocker could be a dud as could the player that Carlton would have prospectively picked up with its original first rounder. Both could be guns. And even the fate of the player that Carlton picks up with adelaide’s first rounder is purely and utterly speculative.

Of course, the higher the pick you have, the wider the pool of players you have to choose from, including those assessed to be the best in the country. But just as there’s have been guns in the top 5 in previous years, there have also been some average players and duds.

Your simplistic assessment is exactly that - simple. Entitled as you are to make it, it is not immune to criticism.

 

[gillo94]

Really hoping Carlton move up the ladder. I recon Bolts is a good coach and could be one of the greats but he has never had much to work with really. He'll end up getting sacked in a few years if things stay the same. Can't really roll with the whole journey thing for to much longer.
Not sure what needs to happen. Just hope that these young guys improve enough in time.

I remember a time when Bomber Thompson copped a heap of crap from Cats supporters and media. Worked out fine for him. Just need bit of patience but a same time as you said talent to develop fast. Can already see improvement in guys like Charlie Curnow, Harry McKay, Paddy Dow and few others.

 

[ManOfClay]

He had a broken jaw. Missed Championships because of it. Clayton Oliver didn’t play championships either so I think good call by Blues recruiting team

Because Clayton Oliver didn’t play in the championships then Stocker is a good call?


What’s your logic there?

 

[ManOfClay]

. Can already see improvement in guys like Charlie Curnow, Harry McKay, Paddy Dow and few others.

Therein lies one of carlton’s problems.

 

[gillo94]

So what proven players have you added to make your backline any better? You don’t have a good backline by any measure, regardless of whether it is your strongest line.

If you had an attacking game plan this year then that isn’t looking good.

Where do you think problems with your team’s inability to defend and attack lie?

Nic Newman would have to take that role. Lochie O’Brien tried out last year. Blues will cover that role

 

[gillo94]

Because Clayton Oliver didn’t play in the championships then Stocker is a good call?


What’s your logic there?

I’m just saying you don’t have to necessarily play in rep squads to be considered top talent. Difference is Stocker would have played. Only thing stopping him was a broken jaw.

 

[gillo94]

Therein lies one of carlton’s problems.

SPS, Zac Fisher. Have recruited Setterfield, Pickett, Walsh, Marchbank, Mitch McGovern

Good starting point

 

[ManOfClay]

Nic Newman would have to take that role. Lochie O’Brien tried out last year. Blues will cover that role

How is nic Newman an improvement on mullet, Shaw, o’shea?

He’s essentially just the same level. O’brien Is a kid and a little way off yet.

 

[gillo94]

How is nic Newman an improvement on mullet, Shaw, o’shea?

He’s essentially just the same level. O’brien Is a kid and a little way off yet.

I don’t believe Shaw is still playing but Newman was recruited as backup. Docherty was always first choice. O’Brien has played senior games, just a question now of where his best position is.

 

[Dez!]

Yeah but season hasn’t even started yet and already stupid reasoning where clubs will finish. Hard to predict so early.

Bottom 6 don’t see too many changes. Port might even slip in there. Blues Suns StK Bulldogs Freo all in similar positions and might come down to who can really win the most games from that lot that can really jump the ladder and possibly play finals. I don’t think Blues will jump too much but can improve from last year with lot of recruits we have picked up.

No gillo there's been a lot of reasonable arguments as to why Carlton will struggle but they're getting shitcanned by Blues supporters for lack of sunshine and lollipops.

 

[La Dispute]

Carlton supporters on the whole have been very reasonable when discussing the state of their list and future prospects. There’s nothing wrong with speculating on a low finish, however there is a certain degree of assumption when stating we’ve given up a top 2 pick (while also missing the fact we’ve still retained a 1st rounder for next year) for Stocker.

I do agree some are too quick to dismiss divergent opinions as trolling, but the reality is some of it is blatant shitposting, which is incredibly easy to spot. No point getting defensive if it gets called out and the aim was to incite some annoyance rather than actually discuss the trade.

We’ve contextualised the rebuild and run over our history of draft misses almost verbatim.

 

[My name geoff]

Leave it out Geoff ………....

If someone has a different opinion to yours it's not automatically "trolling", in fact it's a massive cop-out to play that card too.

If you don't like the comment then ignore it and move on.

Yes you are exactly right, I have a firm belief that anyone who has an opinion differs to my own that means they are trolling

 

[My name geoff]

Yep.

Anything negative about Carlton = Troll

Obviously.

Like I said, you just worry about ASADA

 

[My name geoff]

For the simpletons in this thread, my previous post was tongue in cheek.

People have a right to judge decisions at any given point in time, and obviously those judgements will be reassessed as more information comes to light.

My point stands - there aren't many clubs who would be willing to trade their pick 2 for picks 12 and 19, and there would be 18 clubs (including Carlton) who would queue up to swap their picks 12 and 19 for pick 2.

If Carlton assessed the trade by assuming they would finish any higher than 17th next year based on their 2018 season, that is both deluded and negligent.

Are you intentionally ignoring the fact the Carlton has Stocker rated 6 in this draft?

Are you ignoring the fact that Adelaide missed the finals with the oldest team in the comp?

As it stands, by Carlton’s reasoning (which is just as realistic as your scenarios) we have this trade:

Carlton in:
2018 Pick 6
2019 pick 9

Carlton out:
2019 pick 1

 

[My name geoff]

No gillo there's been a lot of reasonable arguments as to why Carlton will struggle but they're getting shitcanned by Blues supporters for lack of sunshine and lollipops.

Can you see that Carlton fans get shitcanned for reasonable views as to why the blues will improve?

 

[Monkey King]

My point stands - there aren't many clubs who would be willing to trade their pick 2 for picks 12 and 19, and there would be 18 clubs (including Carlton) who would queue up to swap their picks 12 and 19 for pick 2.

As raw picks, when locked in, you’re correct. But that’s just a snapshot in time; presently, we’re not at that snap shot and 5 years from now, who knows how that snapshot will look. Only need to look back to 2015 and turn those picks into players and no club would be trading Schache (pick 2) for Charlie Curnow (pick 12) and Ryan Burton (pick 19).

So sure, everyone can have an opinion, but anyone acting like they’ve got the washup under wraps here already based on this kind of reasoning is just kidding themselves at this point.