Prediction Where will Carlton finish in 2019?

[ManOfClay]

Yeah well ManofClay is a known troll so I hope that troll doesnt reply to my posts. I have no time for him. To your questions

Carlton's 2008 squad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Carlton_Football_Club_season

Carlton's 2019 squad

https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2019/carlton

To my mind it most definitely runs deeper. In 2008 we had some 5 top 10 picks and many late picks the deadwood of 2008 was immense

2019 might run deeper but it certainly doesn’t have the quality of 2008. Ignore that if you will

 

[pinot]

2019 might run deeper but it certainly doesn’t have the quality of 2008. Ignore that if you will

Coming from you, yes I will - now do NOT respond to me.

 

[ManOfClay]

Coming from you, yes I will - now do NOT respond to me.

That’s a fairly childish response, I did elaborate on why I hold my opinion above in a fairly even manner if you’d like to address that. Or would you rather just ignore conflicting viewpoints?

 

[pinot]

That’s a fairly childish response, I did elaborate on why I hold my opinion above in a fairly even manner if you’d like to address that. Or would you rather just ignore conflicting viewpoints?

I dont really care what you think nor what you have to say in all honesty. Why didn't I think of it just before and just put you on ignore.

 

[Gethelred]

This is a really good point.

A well managed club would back themselves and say they are really happy to secure the boy with pick 19.

Instead, they go to all ends of the earth to let anyone who will listen/believe how highly they rated him, therefore putting undue pressure on him.

Reeks of desperation to me.

... except we didn't. One of those off hand statements that, rather predictably, has been seized and ran with for all its worth by both sides of the argument.

Notice, though, that it takes a fair bit of the 'pick 1' pressure off Walsh. With the limelight on Stocker - who may, given how he's performed before the cameras to this point, be able to handle the pressure placed on him by the pick trade - Walsh as pick 1 has gone somewhat under the radar.

 

[WilloTree]

I love the rationality that pick #19 = pick #6 cos SOS says so

Silvagni has been in a list management position 4 times and watched that list come last.
2012 (GWS - 2 wins)
2013 (GWS - 1 win)
2015 (Carl - 4 wins)
2018 (Carl - 2 wins)

It's an enviable record.

I'm sure it's been done to death, but selling off those 17yr old picks for more picks was mind-boggling. They were basically like getting 4 gold tickets to the Wonka factory and trading them for more bars of chocolate.

 

[Gethelred]

... the fact that Stocker had quit school to concentrate 100% on footy is probably a good indication as to why he won the Morrish Medal- didn't have to stress about school - didn't have to stress about exam - didn't have to play school footy - most of his peers would have had those other things in front of them

Negative spin.

Could be that he's dedicated himself to becoming the ultimate AFL player he can be is the positive version. Reality's probably somewhere in the middle.

Should someone deciding their career pathway be considered a bad thing? Especially when its precisely that kind of focus that more frequently than not determines the career trajectory of an AFL player?

 

[Gethelred]

Carlton may win one or two more games in 2019. A 16th finish might satisfy some Blues fans and offer encouragement for some of their better players to stay. This latter point is important as the Blues face the risk of becoming a talent farm for stronger clubs.

Because that's happened to date, has it?

 

[ManOfClay]

I dont really care what you think nor what you have to say in all honesty. Why didn't I think of it just before and just put you on ignore.

All I did was address your points in a considered manner. If you don’t want debate then perhaps a discussion forum isn’t the place to be

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Silvagni has been in a list management position 4 times and watched that list come last.
2012 (GWS - 2 wins)
2013 (GWS - 1 win)
2015 (Carl - 4 wins)
2018 (Carl - 2 wins)

It's an enviable record.

I'm sure it's been done to death, but selling off those 17yr old picks for more picks was mind-boggling. They were basically like getting 4 gold tickets to the Wonka factory and trading them for more bars of chocolate.

Come on, get real.

You really think a list manager could get a new club off the bottom in the first two years? Or that is even their priority.

 

[Fadge]

Come on, get real.

You really think a list manager could get a new club off the bottom in the first two years? Or that is even their priority.

SOS - the specialist list manager for clubs where win/loss records are irrelevant.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

SOS - the specialist list manager for clubs where win/loss records are irrelevant.

Do you get at all what starting a new club involves?

Breathtaking ignorance.

We targeted guys like Sheedy and Sylvagni to negotiate that period. I'd say it went well.

 

[Tigerandy63]

McGovern is a genuine star? He is a nice player and a handy pick-up, but this seems a very generous use of the word "star".

Fair call, but he will be in Carlton's top 5, given his experience and versatility.

 

[StevoJenkins]

I dont really care what you think nor what you have to say in all honesty. Why didn't I think of it just before and just put you on ignore.

And another Carlton fan making a fool of himself.

 

[Dez!]

Yeah well ManofClay is a known troll so I hope that troll doesnt reply to my posts. I have no time for him. To your questions

Carlton's 2008 squad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Carlton_Football_Club_season

Carlton's 2019 squad

https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2019/carlton

To my mind it most definitely runs deeper. In 2008 we had some 5 top 10 picks and many late picks the deadwood of 2008 was immense

You're basing this on nothing but hope though. 2008 had far more proven talent than what you have now, you're banking on potential.

It may end up being the case but the majority of your list is unproven potential heading into 2019.

This is why I don't have Carlton winning any more than 4 games and I don't believe you'll even get that many. Too young and not enough mature talent to make many strides in 2019 but 2020 would be more in line with making good progress if their unproven potential starts to prosper.

 

[Thetrader15]

... except we didn't. One of those off hand statements that, rather predictably, has been seized and ran with for all its worth by both sides of the argument.

Notice, though, that it takes a fair bit of the 'pick 1' pressure off Walsh. With the limelight on Stocker - who may, given how he's performed before the cameras to this point, be able to handle the pressure placed on him by the pick trade - Walsh as pick 1 has gone somewhat under the radar.

Wait until Izak Rankine stars for GC, then the pressure will be back on Walsh

 

[Thetrader15]

2018 is a complete write off when you have 12-15 players on injury list you can't really drop underperformers or develop them in VFL as there are no players to bring in.

Alot of kids were thrown to the fire last year and I reckon they will be better for it.

I see us in a similar reflection point to 2008 where we had an aweful 2007 season and spiked hard in 2008 and finished 11th. If course in 2008 we had Brendan Fevola kicking 99 goals for the season but had no support and he was 26 years old at that time. Should also mention Betts was 21 years old and kicked 60 goals that season,

In 2008 Kreuzer and Gibbs were 18 years old and Murphy was 20 years old and Walker 21 years old..and Judd at 24 years

Our defence in 2008 was being held up by Waite and Thornton and Fevola had Setanta Ohailpin as a helping hand.

There are similar parallels except the 2019 squad is much more talented and list far deeper. As I stated the midfield just needs to click at some point this year.

Totally agree...this is exactly what happened to Adelaide. I'm expecting a similar 'spike' and add our 'easy draw' to that and we are hopefully looking at top 6

 

[Thetrader15]

Makes sense now why Adelaide released Josh Francou to GC...

 

[Gethelred]

Wait until Izak Rankine stars for GC, then leaves GC for Port Adelaide, the pressure will be back up SOS's decision to take Walsh ahead of him

Edited it for you.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Richmond supposedly had a fair bit of interest.

All I'm saying is it's ridiculous to be bashing Carlton for this trade at this stage. Every AFL season is different. You can say Carlton is going to finish last or close to but you don't actually know that and likewise with Adelaide's ladder position. You haven't seen Stocker play, you haven't seen how Carlton or Adelaide look yet and you haven't seen what the two picks next year turn into.

You're criticising Carlton bashed on how you think the season will go. You're no fortune teller. Adelaide in particular are a hard team to assess. Logic would expect them to bounce back after a shambolic 2018 season but there are no guarantees. And Carlton could finish last sure. But it's not guaranteed. It only takes a bit of improvement from them and they move up more towards the 5-10 range of picks. So if Carlton improves a bit which I don't think is the most ridiculous assumption ever they could have traded let's say pick 4 for Stocker who they rated at 6 this year and a pick from Adelaide. Not exactly a big difference is it? And in reality the difference means **** all. As I said it's about how Carlton and Adelaide use the picks.

I think this is an overly optimistic assessment.

Adelaide had a shambolic season, blighted by off field distractions and injuries to half a dozen key players, yet... they finished one game outside the 8.

Carlton had injury issues as well, and unfortunately one of those injuries has reoccurred. And they were a long beneath the sides above them.

It would take a big improvement, not a bit of improvement for them to leapfrog any team other than the Gold Coast.

As you say, none of us are fortune tellers but the indications do not look good.

Having said that, if Carlton really rated Stocker, fair play to them for taking a gamble. Hopefully he turns out a gun and Carlton make the most of the Crows pick next year. Maybe it genuinely will be a good mental reset for the club by removing the talk of pick 1, etc.

Good to see the Crows get a decent pick for once too.

Win-win all round perhaps.

 

[Thetrader15]

Edited it for you.

Thanks for that. That's really great!

Word is that he can do with some time away from hime so will see out at least the 2 years. Crows/Betts fan, so would probably prefer Adelaide if he does come back but Port would be VERY keen to throw the chequebook at him

 

[Thetrader15]

I think this is an overly optimistic assessment.

Adelaide had a shambolic season, blighted by off field distractions and injuries to half a dozen key players, yet... they finished one game outside the 8.

Carlton had injury issues as well, and unfortunately one of those injuries has reoccurred. And they were a long beneath the sides above them.

It would take a big improvement, not a bit of improvement for them to leapfrog any team other than the Gold Coast.

As you say, none of us are fortune tellers but the indications do not look good.

Having said that, if Carlton really rated Stocker, fair play to them for taking a gamble. Hopefully he turns out a gun and Carlton make the most of the Crows pick next year. Maybe it genuinely will be a good mental reset for the club by removing the talk of pick 1, etc.

Good to see the Crows get a decent pick for once too.

Win-win all round perhaps.

Wow, a well documented and balanced post...there'll be no more of that on BF thanks

 

[FlowersByIrene]

What ******* moron mae this poll, what is this the bay? Take this "Carlton are a lock for bottom 3" crap elsewhere

 

[Monkey King]

Secondly the fact that Stocker had quit school to concentrate 100% on footy is probably a good indication as to why he won the Morrish Medal- didn't have to stress about school - didn't have to stress about exam - didn't have to play school footy - most of his peers would have had those other things in front of them

You’ve got your facts wrong. He finished secondary school last year and was studying at uni this year.

 

[doppleganger]

Every list manager makes mistakes.

Absolutely they do.

But blind Freddy could see those players you rubbished offered nothing...everyone except the Carlton list manager

And then they recruit Bugg, who couldn't win a hard ball if his life depended on it.

Yep another WTF call, he has had two cracks at it and has only ever been a fringe bloke who wasn’t up to it.

Why do Carlton continue to bring those types in?

If they want to support the kids, go and get some actual quality senior talent who regularly play 20+ games and we’re in leadership groups who are coming to the end but can still offer something.

Churning through fringe VFL level talent is pointless.