Prediction Where will Carlton finish in 2019?

[EddieExpert]

They will finish last.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Last year we were lacking 22-26 y.o. players. Players who have enough preseasons under their belts to have consistent output. 2019 will see the below players added to that bracket:

Curnow, Marchbank, McGovern, Kennedy, Cuningham, Pickett, Fasolo, Newman, Garlett, Gibbons (potentially) Bugg, Goddard

This will make a significant difference in my view as we will no longer be forced to play 20 and unders.

Yeah look, i'm glad you have hopes, but none of them names jump out at me, not enough to rise that much anyway.

 

[Proper Gander]

Wowee.

This thread somehow became absolutely amazing today.

 

[00Stinger]

If we turn back the hands of time 4-5 years, your list was equally as "putrid" as you say ours is now.

Get 80-100 games into the young draftees and look where you are now.

I'll remind you of this fact in 2-3 years time.

yep agree. And if you go back 10 years ago we were equally putrid and didnt get the recruiting right. So there is no guarantees you have either

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Gralin]

We don’t have supporters through schools anymore. They all jumped on the Hawks

they would have, but with Buddy and Cyril no longer on the list and Dogs, Tigers and Eagles winning the last three flags, I don't think it's the Hawks stealing the kids currently

 

[My name geoff]

Liam Stocker I think from early reports will be good player. Think coping heap of crap because Sos and Blues recruiting team rates him at #6 but every club has their own ratings. Well if does end up looking like a top 10 Pick early then will be very happy, if doesn’t then will have to wait til puts on bit of weight and muscle and plays more regular football. I still think will be in Carlton’s long term future.

Reckon he has already put the muscle on..

 

[pinot]

Carlton potentially will have a few players in 22-under 22 team this coming season.

Players of known ability that will be in the mix with good seasons

Charlie Curnow
Paddy Dow
Zac Fisher
Jacob Weitering
Will Setterfield
SPS
Harry McKay
Matthew Kennedy
Lochie Obrien
Caleb Marchbank
Sam Walsh
Tom Dekoning

 

[Trav 20]

Carlton potentially will have a few players in 22-under 22 team this coming season.

Charlie Curnow
Paddy Dow
Zac Fisher
Jacob Weitering
Will Setterfield
SPS
Harry McKay
Matthew Kennedy
Lochie Obrien
Caleb Marchbank
Sam Walsh
Tom Dekoning

I think all of them will make it.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I think all of them will make it.

DeKoning will need another year.

 

[mopsy]

From the list Roos took over there are 5 players remaining.

I agree with the thrust of your post, however, there are no guarantees that all, or even most of Carlton's youth will succeed and to what level. Much will depend on their coaching and development program, which at this stage is also unproven.

Cripps is a star and Curnow is likely to become a star, but that won't be enough and the rest is guesswork.

You too had no guarantees that your youth would succeed yet 4 5 6 yrs on, along with a few astute trades enough of them have made it to get you to a Preliminary final.

The assumption by many here seems to be Carltons kids are s**t and they wont make it.Generally the assumption is their own kids are great and will make it.
Based on nothing but speculation and hope. I think it is reasonable to assume a decent percentage of their kids will make it Just like i assume a decent percentage of my teams picks will make it.Seems a lot of people have double standards.

I would have thought considering where the majority of Carltons kids have been taken, mostly high picks, The fact Almost everyone in footy acknowledges the overhaul in their club, An overhaul just like your mob had just like my mob had when Gale and Hardwick took over, it took us 9 yrs to get where we are. That its more likely than not that a good percentage of their kids will make the grade.
Its also a very reasonable assumption that those kids mostly 1st, 2nd, and 3rd yr players will improve just by becoming one yr older and having had games put into them.

After the Bailey and Neeld yrs i would have thought a Melbourne supporter of all supporters would appreciate what a lack of senior players and having to play too many juniors does to a team, and just how long it can take to overcome that problem.

The following is a list of players that were at your club when Roos took over with their 2018 game tally's.
Gawn 25gms, Hogan 20, Hunt 6, Jetta 25, Jones 25, J K-H 6, Kent 5, T McDonald 20, Salem 24, Vince 17, Tyson 17, Viney 17, Harmes 25.

On top of these he had Frawley who won a G/F, Howe who has played in one,Dunn who would have played in one if not injured, Garland who has retired throw in Jetta and Hunt and right there is a damn decent backline.
Roos had plenty to start off with.

In his first yr as coach he also had Brayshaw, Petracca, Frost, Garlett, O McDonald, A N-B, Vandenberg. To me at the start of roos tenure he had an awful lot to work with and a lot of the pieces in place. It was about continuing to grow the list and more importantly get enough games and development into the kids at your club.

If i was going to compare Carlton to you id say they are 2015 Melbourne.That yr you finished 13th with 7 or 8? wins.

Now im feeling a bit sick defending this mob but i think since the 2015 overhaul they are on the right track unfortunately.If they have it right 2020 is a yr to probably expect a finals finish 2022 imo is about the time they could expect a flag tilt if like at my club and your club they are going down the right path and i think they are, i see a club doing the hard yards and sticking to a course. I really dont believe they will measure improvement this yr with the win/loss column.

I think this is an overly optimistic assessment.

Adelaide had a shambolic season, blighted by off field distractions and injuries to half a dozen key players, yet... they finished one game outside the 8.

Carlton had injury issues as well, and unfortunately one of those injuries has reoccurred. And they were a long beneath the sides above them.

It would take a big improvement, not a bit of improvement for them to leapfrog any team other than the Gold Coast.

As you say, none of us are fortune tellers but the indications do not look good.

Having said that, if Carlton really rated Stocker, fair play to them for taking a gamble. Hopefully he turns out a gun and Carlton make the most of the Crows pick next year. Maybe it genuinely will be a good mental reset for the club by removing the talk of pick 1, etc.

Good to see the Crows get a decent pick for once too.

Win-win all round perhaps.

Just about spot on with this post. Thing is with where Adelaide's list is at compared to Carltons they should never ever fall off a cliff and finish near the bottom.
They have enough players with the right kpi's to cover their injuries Carlton dont. That should come as a part of rebuilding. It doesnt happen overnight.

I think people forget Adelaide are probably 11 - 12 oclock on the premiership clock and with their age/experience demographic need to challenge for the flag. Carlton are probably 3 - 4 oclock and have time to develop and build noone in their right mind thinks they are close but i find it wrong for people to suggest their kids are crap and they have it all wrong.

One has a plethora 29 players of mature and vets aged 23 plus with plenty of games behind them and have no need to fast track kids.
The other has just delisted retired traded 54 players over the last 4 seasons and has too many inexperienced and imature players who they need to get games into somehow.

Im not sure how things are not looking good for them when it is patently clear they have gone down a path that will take a fair bit of time and is no quick fix.
It may not look good right now but in two or three yrs time who knows.

 

[swiftdog]

This thread has turned amazing. Can’t help but be reminded of the hype 10 years ago surrounding Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer and how those three would inevitably lead Carlton to premierships. Same talk happening now, just a different list of names. Of the youngsters on the list, Cripps is proven and that’s it. Curnow looks likely but it’s not easy to be a dominant key forward. The rest have potential and that’s it, potential. Maybe they’ll come on, maybe they won’t, but it’s far from guaranteed like a couple of Carlton supporters seem to be making out (admittedly this might just be a loud minority).

 

[Trav 20]

You too had no guarantees that your youth would succeed yet 4 5 6 yrs on, along with a few astute trades enough of them have made it to get you to a Preliminary final.

The assumption by many here seems to be Carltons kids are s**t and they wont make it.Generally the assumption is their own kids are great and will make it.
Based on nothing but speculation and hope. I think it is reasonable to assume a decent percentage of their kids will make it Just like i assume a decent percentage of my teams picks will make it.Seems a lot of people have double standards.

I would have thought considering where the majority of Carltons kids have been taken, mostly high picks, The fact Almost everyone in footy acknowledges the overhaul in their club, An overhaul just like your mob had just like my mob had when Gale and Hardwick took over, it took us 9 yrs to get where we are. That its more likely than not that a good percentage of their kids will make the grade.
Its also a very reasonable assumption that those kids mostly 1st, 2nd, and 3rd yr players will improve just by becoming one yr older and having had games put into them.

After the Bailey and Neeld yrs i would have thought a Melbourne supporter of all supporters would appreciate what a lack of senior players and having to play too many juniors does to a team, and just how long it can take to overcome that problem.

The following is a list of players that were at your club when Roos took over with their 2018 game tally's.
Gawn 25gms, Hogan 20, Hunt 6, Jetta 25, Jones 25, J K-H 6, Kent 5, T McDonald 20, Salem 24, Vince 17, Tyson 17, Viney 17, Harmes 25.

On top of these he had Frawley who won a G/F, Howe who has played in one,Dunn who would have played in one if not injured, Garland who has retired throw in Jetta and Hunt and right there is a damn decent backline.
Roos had plenty to start off with.

In his first yr as coach he also had Brayshaw, Petracca, Frost, Garlett, O McDonald, A N-B, Vandenberg. To me at the start of roos tenure he had an awful lot to work with and a lot of the pieces in place. It was about continuing to grow the list and more importantly get enough games and development into the kids at your club.

If i was going to compare Carlton to you id say they are 2015 Melbourne.That yr you finished 13th with 7 or 8? wins.

Now im feeling a bit sick defending this mob but i think since the 2015 overhaul they are on the right track unfortunately.If they have it right 2020 is a yr to probably expect a finals finish 2022 imo is about the time they could expect a flag tilt if like at my club and your club they are going down the right path and i think they are, i see a club doing the hard yards and sticking to a course. I really dont believe they will measure improvement this yr with the win/loss column.

Firstly, I haven't called Carlton's kids "s**t".

Secondly, I said there were no guarantees that most of their kids will develop into week-in week-out consistent quality AFL players. And there isn't.

Thirdly, I said I'm not privy to the quality of the coaching and development at Carlton. It's an important facet. Perhaps you are ?

Fourthly, what happened at my club, or any other is irrelevant. We're on our third rebuild since 2006 having seen two fail. There are no guarantees. Being a Melbourne supporter only reiterates my point.

Fifthly, many of the players you say were at the club when Roos took over is incorrect. Roos took over in October 2013 before the ND and trade period. Roos was instrumental in trading pick 2 for Tyson and pick 9 (Salem). Vince came to Melbourne in part because Roos was the coach. Roos was a part of the process that got those players to the club. Hunt, Harmes, etc. were part of Roos first draft, but after he'd started work as coach.

Top 20 picks from my club that failed: Toumpas, Morton, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Cook, Trengove (injury), Tapscott, and Maric at pick 21. There are no guarantees.

Also, there are degrees of success. A player might become a regular AFL player, but that doesn't mean he'll become the equal of Oliver or Viney.

I reiterate a point you've corrected, from the moment Roos walked through the door in Oct. 2013 there are 5 players left.

 

[THE_GUN]

Im thinking Carlton are finally getting on track and will be back competing finals again but not in 2019, They are still 2 years and 2/3 free agents away from challenging for finals . Whilst they now have the talented youth on their list they still need quality experienced players in the 25-27 year age bracket.

2019 . 15th -17th
2020 . 8th - 12th

 

[emuboy]

It is very hard to call the 2019 wooden spoon. Carlton, St. Kilda, Gold Coast and Fremantle would all be strong contenders to finish on the bottom of the ladder next season. Any one of them would be outright favorite to finish last without the other three being there, but then again you could get a mid-ladder team like North unexpectedly slipping to last. Remember, the Kangaroos only avoided finishing on the bottom of the ladder in 2017 by beating Brisbane in 'Wooden Spoon Grand Final' in the last round that season.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

It is very hard to call the 2019 wooden spoon. Carlton, St. Kilda, Gold Coast and Fremantle would all be strong contenders to finish on the bottom of the ladder next season. Any one of them would be outright favorite to finish last without the other three being there, but then again you could get a mid-ladder team like North unexpectedly slipping to last. Remember, the Kangaroos only avoided finishing on the bottom of the ladder in 2017 by beating Brisbane in 'Wooden Spoon Grand Final' in the last round that season.

I think thats too aggressive on Freo. With their trading they'll be good for a few more goals per game next season, will likely trouble a lot of good sides over in Perth. No chance for woodenware.

 

[swiftdog]

Actually it’s quite exciting watching this little list build towards sustained success. When we get there we don’t want get shown up and get the type of flogging WC handed to you in the Prelim.

Huh? “Build towards sustained success”? Carlton went from 6-16 in 2017 to 2-20 in 2018. How on Earth can that be considered a guaranteed build not just towards success, but “sustained success”?

 

[LordLucifer]

Reckon he has already put the muscle on..

The players have been back at training for what ......…. two weeks ??

And this bloke has already put muscle on …….

 

[TeeJay Blue]

I love how some Carlton posters call anyone who disagrees with them trolls.

This page shows who the real trolls are

There is disagreeing.

Then there is endless derision from short-sighted and shallow-minded morons who can't look past their hatred of the club and actually contribute properly to the discussion.

There are some fellow Carlton supporters here which I don't entirely agree with and I notice the reputation they have given to themselves. But I know what I think and I know what I believe. When I voice my opinion, I make sure I back it up with something reasonable. Most of the crap I've read so far here (particularly from opposition supporters) has been baseless drivel and cheap shots. Even the OP themselves is kind of trolling with the poll.

'They will finish last' - No reason why
'SOS is a crap list manager' - No reason why
'New recruits are average' - How would they know?
'Live trade was a mistake' - Again, how would they know?
'List is still atrocious' - No reason why
etc.

FFS, if you're going to just going to claim something without anything to support it. Then expect criticism. Expect others to point it out.

Compare it to the way I think:

'I don't see the list being as bad as most make it out!'
Why?
- It's full of raw talent. Kids that are every chance of coming on and showing their worth. The more of this, the greater the chances.
- There's a nice handful of experience to cover for the youth.
- They are being hindered by a highly-defensive game plan. A game plan that doesn't create space or allow for speed. One that no other team this season followed. One that nearly everybody hates. One that could just about be the reason why AFL considered rule changes.
- Injuries took a hit on not only the playing group but their mentality. On-field communication became worse.
- The development hasn't been meeting standards and the medical department was a complete shambles, risking 6 players for them to suffer relapses. This has finally been addressed.

Where will Carlton finish?
- Blues can finish as high as 12th with 8-9 wins if everything goes according to plan. But I predict them finishing 17th with 5 wins (originally had them 15th before Doc got injured) as I believe they still struggle to perform without depending on their more experienced and more talented pillars. If a lot goes wrong like this year, then they can finish last again and the club will be pressured by the media into sacking Bolts.
All have to factor in that the club are backing themselves in with the belief they can push their way up. It would be pretty stupid of them not to as the point is to win the flag. There is no point competing in the season otherwise. Higher expectations lead to greater reward.
Fact is there will be better times. Fact is there will be improvement. As for when it comes, no one knows. Could be as soon as next year, or a little later on.

This is me with an open mind. This is me considering all possibilities. And I at least try to be insightful.

Most of this thread now is just attacking each other and posting unsubstantiated nonsense. And the culprits responsible just don't want to admit they're responsible for playing a part derailing it.

 

[RonnieRaven]

2019 18th
no depth
bolts game plan?
Fixture- have to play all 22 games against higher ranked opponents

 

[StevoJenkins]

There is disagreeing.

Then there is endless derision from short-sighted and shallow-minded morons who can't look past their hatred of the club and actually contribute properly to the discussion.

There are some fellow Carlton supporters here which I don't entirely agree with and I notice the reputation they have given to themselves. But I know what I think and I know what I believe. When I voice my opinion, I make sure I back it up with something reasonable. Most of the crap I've read so far here (particularly from opposition supporters) has been baseless drivel and cheap shots. Even the OP themselves is kind of trolling with the poll.

'They will finish last' - No reason why
'SOS is a crap list manager' - No reason why
'New recruits are average' - How would they know?
'Live trade was a mistake' - Again, how would they know?
'List is still atrocious' - No reason why
etc.

FFS, if you're going to just going to claim something without anything to support it. Then expect criticism. Expect others to point it out.

Compare it to the way I think:

'I don't see the list being as bad as most make it out!'
Why?
- It's full of raw talent. Kids that are every chance of coming on and showing their worth. The more of this, the greater the chances.
- There's a nice handful of experience to cover for the youth.
- They are being hindered by a highly-defensive game plan. A game plan that doesn't create space or allow for speed. One that no other team this season followed. One that nearly everybody hates. One that could just about be the reason why AFL considered rule changes.
- Injuries took a hit on not only the playing group but their mentality. On-field communication became worse.
- The development hasn't been meeting standards and the medical department was a complete shambles, risking 6 players for them to suffer relapses. This has finally been addressed.

Where will Carlton finish?
- Blues can finish as high as 12th with 8-9 wins if everything goes according to plan. But I predict them finishing 17th with 5 wins (originally had them 15th before Doc got injured) as I believe they still struggle to perform without depending on their more experienced and more talented pillars. If a lot goes wrong like this year, then they can finish last again and the club will be pressured by the media into sacking Bolts.
All have to factor in that the club are backing themselves in with the belief they can push their way up. It would be pretty stupid of them not to as the point is to win the flag. There is no point competing in the season otherwise. Higher expectations lead to greater reward.
Fact is there will be better times. Fact is there will be improvement. As for when it comes, no one knows. Could be as soon as next year, or a little later on.

This is me with an open mind. This is me considering all possibilities. And I at least try to be insightful.

Most of this thread now is just attacking each other and posting baseless drivel. And the culprits responsible just don't want to admit they're responsible for partly derailing it.

Whilst I'll agree with you on the morons part (a lot of it is non-Carlton supporters, including myself, responding to the crap Carlton supporters have been posting) there's a lot of legitimate criticism that has been given that has been branded as trolling around here. So here I go, without replying to toxic comments whilst being toxic myself to be respectful towards the Carlton supporters who didn't post stupid crap, as I explain why I think Carlton will finish with the wooden spoon.

First things first, you don't have effective depth. It was highlighted in the past season where, as I've already mentioned, you didn't have enough players who could replace others who got injured at an effective level. I understand that injuries happen, it's a 22-23 game season, but your list relies on Docherty, Kruezer, the Curnow brothers, Simpson, Cripps and McKay. Lose any of those players and the team seems to go downhill, relying on unproven or just shocking players. Sure your list has some young players who could turn out alright, but they didn't do that this season past and from what I've seen I don't expect them to step up next season because they aren't ready. As a result, I can see Walsh and Stocker being played before they are ready which will lead to more issues.

Next thing I'll mention is the Suns. The biggest reason for their worse performance last year was the fact they didn't play on their home ground for half the year. With the new structure, on and off the field, they've put in place - improvement will happen. Expect them to be better than this season based on that. With all the players who were questionable about staying with the club out, the mindset of the team will change overall. This means they'll have won half the on field battle.

After that I'll mention the improvement of other teams via trades. Brisbane (I'm using this as an example as it's the example I know the most about) got Neale, Addams, McCarthy and Lyons - all players that fill a gap in our best 22 and add to our teams depth. Carlton got Mitch McGovern, Alex Fasolo, Nic Newman and Will Shetterfield. Out of those players, McGovern is someone whose role would be questionable. He's not questionable because of his role, he has the ability to play in the backline or the fowardline, he's questionable because he's an above average player that doesn't fix a problem within Carlton's best 22. Outside of the defensive line headed by Simpson that Carlton has, the midfield is the area that should be focused on. Cripps needs someone to help him out ASAP because if he does what he did this year, he'll be done 2-3 years before his time due to his body. Carlton needed improvement in order to perform better, but didn't focus on their main area of need. Nic Newman (according to Carlton) is a defender, 33 games, who couldn't get a consistent game at Sydney. Shetterfield is a mid who has played 2 games and Fasolo is a forward (101 games) which Carlton doesn't necessarily need. I wasn't expecting Carlton to grab 5 A-grade players in the trade period, but players who play positions of need who have played at least some games are needed in Carlton to at least add to the depth.

Besides everything I have said, Carlton will improve next year if most of the players I mentioned as key players remain on the field. That being said, other bottom teams will and have improved more than Carlton already, which will leave Carlton at the bottom of the ladder in my opinion. Happy to be proven wrong.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Whilst I'll agree with you on the morons part (a lot of it is non-Carlton supporters, including myself, responding to the crap Carlton supporters have been posting) there's a lot of legitimate criticism that has been given that has been branded as trolling around here. So here I go, without replying to toxic comments whilst being toxic myself to be respectful towards the Carlton supporters who didn't post stupid crap, as I explain why I think Carlton will finish with the wooden spoon.

First things first, you don't have effective depth. It was highlighted in the past season where, as I've already mentioned, you didn't have enough players who could replace others who got injured at an effective level. I understand that injuries happen, it's a 22-23 game season, but your list relies on Docherty, Kruezer, the Curnow brothers, Simpson, Cripps and McKay. Lose any of those players and the team seems to go downhill, relying on unproven or just shocking players. Sure your list has some young players who could turn out alright, but they didn't do that this season past and from what I've seen I don't expect them to step up next season because they aren't ready. As a result, I can see Walsh and Stocker being played before they are ready which will lead to more issues.

Next thing I'll mention is the Suns. The biggest reason for their worse performance last year was the fact they didn't play on their home ground for half the year. With the new structure, on and off the field, they've put in place - improvement will happen. Expect them to be better than this season based on that. With all the players who were questionable about staying with the club out, the mindset of the team will change overall. This means they'll have won half the on field battle.

After that I'll mention the improvement of other teams via trades. Brisbane (I'm using this as an example as it's the example I know the most about) got Neale, Addams, McCarthy and Lyons - all players that fill a gap in our best 22 and add to our teams depth. Carlton got Mitch McGovern, Alex Fasolo, Nic Newman and Will Shetterfield. Out of those players, McGovern is someone whose role would be questionable. He's not questionable because of his role, he has the ability to play in the backline or the fowardline, he's questionable because he's an above average player that doesn't fix a problem within Carlton's best 22. Outside of the defensive line headed by Simpson that Carlton has, the midfield is the area that should be focused on. Cripps needs someone to help him out ASAP because if he does what he did this year, he'll be done 2-3 years before his time due to his body. Carlton needed improvement in order to perform better, but didn't focus on their main area of need. Nic Newman (according to Carlton) is a defender, 33 games, who couldn't get a consistent game at Sydney. Shetterfield is a mid who has played 2 games and Fasolo is a forward (101 games) which Carlton doesn't necessarily need. I wasn't expecting Carlton to grab 5 A-grade players in the trade period, but players who play positions of need who have played at least some games are needed in Carlton to at least add to the depth.

Besides everything I have said, Carlton will improve next year if most of the players I mentioned as key players remain on the field. That being said, other bottom teams will and have improved more than Carlton already, which will leave Carlton at the bottom of the ladder in my opinion. Happy to be proven wrong.

All's good. But there are a few things I have to nitpick here.

- It's not so much the venue with the suns, but rather the solidity. They're just not a solid group. And their losses will hurt more than their gains. I mean to lose their top two leaders. An effective mid in Lyons and others like Kolodjashnij, there looks to be nothing there that looks to hold that group together right now. There is no star factor and who looks to be their strongest player and leader in Swallow, can't seem to keep on the park as much.
- You are sort of looking at the recruits with a bit of bias, which for you isn't at all bad. We all look at our own clubs that way. We naturally have more knowledge of them as well due to our passion and level of focus. So from a Carlton supporter's perspective, I do believe the new blues' recruits fill their needs right now. They're just questioned for their inconsistencies and not having much on their resumes. I know for a fact that SOS has kept an eye on both Gov and Setts for a couple of years already, but Carlton are in a position when they believe they can fit anyone anywhere. McGovern would be the biggest question mark given the club's need to work with Charlie and McKay, but I tend to think it all but saves them from having to worry about the forward line for the moment, since it's now well-stocked.
- Nic Newman was a damn good get given Simpson's age and Willo's inability to keep on the field at the moment. And with Doc having gone down again, it makes the decision all the more justifiable. And before you refer about his impact, just remember that Tom Mitchell wasn't getting much of a game with the swans. Goes to hawks, then suddenly becomes their number one midfielder and Brownlow medalist. That's not saying Newman will do the same thing. It's just implying the possibility that he may find his feet and have a better career with Carlton.
- Fasolo is interesting. There's a lot of mixed thoughts on him, but I personally like to think he's a good get as well, especially after Matthew Wright having retired. Sure, he's a little taller and lacks forward pressure, but he's much-required experience at that end of the field (most of what the blues have there right now up forward doesn't have that) and a player of the age group blues are starved of.
- Will Setterfield was a bargain trade. A highly-rated prospect and another solution to Carlton's most troublesome area on the field right now. There's no denying he has the talent, and I've seen snippets of it. The only question is will he keep on the park. That is up to the management and medical teams. Just a quick note, There's no H in Setterfield.

But here's the biggest issue I have with your post. You say that both Walsh and Stocker aren't ready. Stocker I can agree with, but Walsh I can make an argument for. He looks like he could start any day. Very poised, speaks well and seems to know what's required of him.
Besides if that were the case, wouldn't that be the same for just about any first-year player. How it is any different from McCluggage and Rayner in their first years? It seems bizarre because all clubs tend to expose first-year players to the game and many seem to pick it up quite well. I don't think that is quite a strong point considering it has been proven wrong a lot of times. I mean look at Stephenson. Heart problems didn't stop him from winning the RS. Same with McGrath in his first year. Worpel was becoming the talk around Mulgrave after just 11 games. And Weitering's first year was better than his following two.

 

[My name geoff]

Whilst I'll agree with you on the morons part (a lot of it is non-Carlton supporters, including myself, responding to the crap Carlton supporters have been posting) there's a lot of legitimate criticism that has been given that has been branded as trolling around here. So here I go, without replying to toxic comments whilst being toxic myself to be respectful towards the Carlton supporters who didn't post stupid crap, as I explain why I think Carlton will finish with the wooden spoon.

First things first, you don't have effective depth. It was highlighted in the past season where, as I've already mentioned, you didn't have enough players who could replace others who got injured at an effective level. I understand that injuries happen, it's a 22-23 game season, but your list relies on Docherty, Kruezer, the Curnow brothers, Simpson, Cripps and McKay. Lose any of those players and the team seems to go downhill, relying on unproven or just shocking players. Sure your list has some young players who could turn out alright, but they didn't do that this season past and from what I've seen I don't expect them to step up next season because they aren't ready. As a result, I can see Walsh and Stocker being played before they are ready which will lead to more issues.

Next thing I'll mention is the Suns. The biggest reason for their worse performance last year was the fact they didn't play on their home ground for half the year. With the new structure, on and off the field, they've put in place - improvement will happen. Expect them to be better than this season based on that. With all the players who were questionable about staying with the club out, the mindset of the team will change overall. This means they'll have won half the on field battle.

After that I'll mention the improvement of other teams via trades. Brisbane (I'm using this as an example as it's the example I know the most about) got Neale, Addams, McCarthy and Lyons - all players that fill a gap in our best 22 and add to our teams depth. Carlton got Mitch McGovern, Alex Fasolo, Nic Newman and Will Shetterfield. Out of those players, McGovern is someone whose role would be questionable. He's not questionable because of his role, he has the ability to play in the backline or the fowardline, he's questionable because he's an above average player that doesn't fix a problem within Carlton's best 22. Outside of the defensive line headed by Simpson that Carlton has, the midfield is the area that should be focused on. Cripps needs someone to help him out ASAP because if he does what he did this year, he'll be done 2-3 years before his time due to his body. Carlton needed improvement in order to perform better, but didn't focus on their main area of need. Nic Newman (according to Carlton) is a defender, 33 games, who couldn't get a consistent game at Sydney. Shetterfield is a mid who has played 2 games and Fasolo is a forward (101 games) which Carlton doesn't necessarily need. I wasn't expecting Carlton to grab 5 A-grade players in the trade period, but players who play positions of need who have played at least some games are needed in Carlton to at least add to the depth.

Besides everything I have said, Carlton will improve next year if most of the players I mentioned as key players remain on the field. That being said, other bottom teams will and have improved more than Carlton already, which will leave Carlton at the bottom of the ladder in my opinion. Happy to be proven wrong.

Here’s why Carlton will improve more than most other teams next year:

In 2018 there were games where we only had 3-4 players aged in the 22-26 age bracket. It was an area which SOS identified as the biggest reason for the struggle.

In 2019 Carlton will add to that age demographic:

Curnow, Marchbank, McGovern, Kennedy, Pickett, Garlett, Fasolo, Newman, Bugg, Goddard, Owies, Gibbons (potentially)

+ Weitering, Mckay, Silvagni who will turn 22 at the end of the season.

Added to the guys we already had in this age bracket:

Cripps, Docherty, Lang, Plowman.

That is going from 3-4 players in an important age demographic to potentially 19 if they all play together.

That result in performance will be chalk and cheese compared with last season where we regularly had to play 10-11 players aged 21 and under in games (5-6 of which were teenagers.) This will not be the case in 2019.

 

[skadoosh]

This thread has turned amazing. Can’t help but be reminded of the hype 10 years ago surrounding Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer and how those three would inevitably lead Carlton to premierships. Same talk happening now, just a different list of names. Of the youngsters on the list, Cripps is proven and that’s it. Curnow looks likely but it’s not easy to be a dominant key forward. The rest have potential and that’s it, potential. Maybe they’ll come on, maybe they won’t, but it’s far from guaranteed like a couple of Carlton supporters seem to be making out (admittedly this might just be a loud minority).

Question time: From our 2008-2014 draft, our only remaining draft picks are Cripps and Casboult. Are you saying that our hit rate, will, again be so low?

Question time: What makes this time around the same situation in your opinion?

 

[StevoJenkins]

All's good. But there are a few things I have to nitpick here.

- It's not so much the venue with the suns, but rather the solidity. They're just not a solid group. And their losses will hurt more than their gains. I mean to lose their top two leaders. An effective mid in Lyons and others like Kolodjashnij, there looks to be nothing there that looks to hold that group together right now. There is no star factor and who looks to be their strongest player and leader in Swallow, can't seem to keep on the park as much.
- You are sort of looking at the recruits with a bit of bias, which for you isn't at all bad. We all look at our own clubs that way. We naturally have more knowledge of them as well due to our passion and level of focus. So from a Carlton supporter's perspective, I do believe the new blues' recruits fill their needs right now. They're just questioned for their inconsistencies and not having much on their resumes. I know for a fact that SOS has kept an eye on both Gov and Setts for a couple of years already, but Carlton are in a position when they believe they can fit anyone anywhere. McGovern would be the biggest question mark given the club's need to work with Charlie and McKay, but I tend to think it all but saves them from having to worry about the forward line for the moment, since it's now well-stocked.
- Nic Newman was a damn good get given Simpson's age and Willo's inability to keep on the field at the moment. And with Doc having gone down again, it makes the decision all the more justifiable. And before you refer about his impact, just remember that Tom Mitchell wasn't getting much of a game with the swans. Goes to hawks, then suddenly becomes their number one midfielder and Brownlow medalist. That's not saying Newman will do the same thing. It's just implying the possibility that he may find his feet and have a better career with Carlton.
- Fasolo is interesting. There's a lot of mixed thoughts on him, but I personally like to think he's a good get as well, especially after Matthew Wright having retired. Sure, he's a little taller and lacks forward pressure, but he's much-required experience at that end of the field (most of what the blues have there right now up forward doesn't have that) and a player of the age group blues are starved of.
- Will Setterfield was a bargain trade. A highly-rated prospect and another solution to Carlton's most troublesome area on the field right now. There's no denying he has the talent, and I've seen snippets of it. The only question is will he keep on the park. That is up to the management and medical teams. Just a quick note, There's no H in Setterfield.

But here's the biggest issue I have with your post. You say that both Walsh and Stocker aren't ready. Stocker I can agree with, but Walsh I can make an argument for. He looks like he could start any day. Very poised, speaks well and seems to know what's required of him.
Besides if that were the case, wouldn't that be the same for just about any first-year player. How it is any different from McCluggage and Rayner in their first years? It seems bizarre because all clubs tend to expose first-year players to the game and many seem to pick it up quite well. I don't think that is quite a strong point considering it has been proven wrong a lot of times. I mean look at Stephenson. Heart problems didn't stop him from winning the RS. Same with McGrath in his first year. Worpel was becoming the talk around Mulgrave after just 11 games. And Weitering's first year was better than his following two.

McCluggage, Berry and Witherden were forced to play due to the club not having best 22 quality players available. Another thing to keep in mind is the difference in speed between the lower leagues and the AFL. It's a completely different game in that regard, hence why first year players usually get put in the round 1 state league games. Rayner especially was almost dropped multiple times and didn't even make a mark in certain games. There's also the body difference between a new draftee and a 2-3 seasoned AFL player. Getting put into your first season and playing all games can take a toll on the body and reduce how much time a player has if beaten up early on.

I like Walsh (Lions supporters in the draft these days are hard to come by), but at the same time you'd want to get as much as you want out of him for as long as you can. Sometimes putting in a new recruit is a good choice, sometimes it isn't. For a midfielder (a role that usually has the player start to breakdown at 27-28 years old) you'd want to make sure he's ready.

In regards to the Suns, outside of the captains what makes them different from Carlton? Carlton has delisted and lost players (granted for different reasons) at a similar rate over the years. Another bloke posted a list of good players that have left in the past few years and the delistings at some point on one of the pages around here. Getting rid of the "toxic" individuals at the club has already improved the club to a point. That being said, traveling for 2-3 days of the week isn't going to help your game. Traveling constantly is tiresome (especially depending on where you travel) and it would have effected the Suns fitness overall.

My point about Fasolo is that he isn't necessarily needed at the moment. Priority should be to give Cripps another big body as backup so he can have a long career. It's been brought up at multiple points throughout the season that his body will start to breakdown a bit if he keeps carrying the way he is. Whilst Newman can come in to replace Simpson, I wouldn't call him a good get just yet. His weaknesses (as well as the Swans's) were revealed in that game against the Giants. I have no doubt that McGovern would've been watched for a while, however his stats that have been brought up in this thread aren't great. He's still an above average player which doesn't fit the most needed parts of the ground for Carlton. You're sort of right with Setterfield (was a typo in my original post), but he's a guy who's played 2 games in two seasons. He's either going to be a drag or workout well, but from a list management perspective you need guys who are confirmed to be able to stay on the field given the run of injuries this season.

As I've already said though, Carlton will improve and I hope they do. Makes games more exciting.

Here’s why Carlton will improve more than most other teams next year:

In 2018 there were games where we only had 3-4 players aged in the 22-26 age bracket. It was an area which SOS identified as the biggest reason for the struggle.

In 2019 Carlton will add to that age demographic:

Curnow, Marchbank, McGovern, Kennedy, Pickett, Garlett, Fasolo, Newman, Bugg, Goddard, Gibbons (potentially)

+ Weitering, Mckay, Silvagni who will turn 22 at the end of the season.

Added to the guys we already had in this age bracket:

Cripps, Docherty, Lang, Plowman.

That is going from 3-4 players in an important age demographic to potentially 18 if they all play together.

That result in performance will be chalk and cheese compared with last season where we regularly had to play 10-11 players aged 21 and under in games (5-6 of which were teenagers.) This will not be the case in 2019.

I never said that they wouldn't improve, but I think improving above multiple others is a stretch. St. Kilda, the Suns and Carlton will be competing for the bottom. But as I've already said and even implied about both the current players and the new recruits, a lot of them are still largely unproven and don't provide effective depth. You could easily have a horror injury run again and be put into the same position as this past season.

In regards to the age thing, whilst having players at different ages is important because they have different levels of experience, they also need to be at a certain level. Multiple times during the season we saw even your veteran players struggle with no vital players injured. Just because someone becomes older, doesn't mean they will become better, there's many examples of that. Now granted I don't know about every player and their abilities at Carlton, I only know things from looking at trades/team line ups/watching games/average stats/etc., but it's a point that needs to be made.

 

[My name geoff]

McCluggage, Berry and Witherden were forced to play due to the club not having best 22 quality players available. Another thing to keep in mind is the difference in speed between the lower leagues and the AFL. It's a completely different game in that regard, hence why first year players usually get put in the round 1 state league games. Rayner especially was almost dropped multiple times and didn't even make a mark in certain games. There's also the body difference between a new draftee and a 2-3 seasoned AFL player. Getting put into your first season and playing all games can take a toll on the body and reduce how much time a player has if beaten up early on.

I like Walsh (Lions supporters in the draft these days are hard to come by), but at the same time you'd want to get as much as you want out of him for as long as you can. Sometimes putting in a new recruit is a good choice, sometimes it isn't. For a midfielder (a role that usually has the player start to breakdown at 27-28 years old) you'd want to make sure he's ready.

In regards to the Suns, outside of the captains what makes them different from Carlton? Carlton has delisted and lost players (granted for different reasons) at a similar rate over the years. Another bloke posted a list of good players that have left in the past few years and the delistings at some point on one of the pages around here. Getting rid of the "toxic" individuals at the club has already improved the club to a point. That being said, traveling for 2-3 days of the week isn't going to help your game. Traveling constantly is tiresome (especially depending on where you travel) and it would have effected the Suns fitness overall.

My point about Fasolo is that he isn't necessarily needed at the moment. Priority should be to give Cripps another big body as backup so he can have a long career. It's been brought up at multiple points throughout the season that his body will start to breakdown a bit if he keeps carrying the way he is. Whilst Newman can come in to replace Simpson, I wouldn't call him a good get just yet. His weaknesses (as well as the Swans's) were revealed in that game against the Giants. I have no doubt that McGovern would've been watched for a while, however his stats that have been brought up in this thread aren't great. He's still an above average player which doesn't fit the most needed parts of the ground for Carlton. You're sort of right with Setterfield (was a typo in my original post), but he's a guy who's played 2 games in two seasons. He's either going to be a drag or workout well, but from a list management perspective you need guys who are confirmed to be able to stay on the field given the run of injuries this season.

As I've already said though, Carlton will improve and I hope they do. Makes games more exciting.



I never said that they wouldn't improve, but I think improving above multiple others is a stretch. St. Kilda, the Suns and Carlton will be competing for the bottom. But as I've already said and even implied about both the current players and the new recruits, a lot of them are still largely unproven and don't provide effective depth. You could easily have a horror injury run again and be put into the same position as this past season.

In regards to the age thing, whilst having players at different ages is important because they have different levels of experience, they also need to be at a certain level. Multiple times during the season we saw even your veteran players struggle with no vital players injured. Just because someone becomes older, doesn't mean they will become better, there's many examples of that. Now granted I don't know about every player and their abilities at Carlton, I only know things from looking at trades/team line ups/watching games/average stats/etc., but it's a point that needs to be made.

Our older players are old. Murphy, Simpson, Thomas, Rowe were all over 30. You need the core of the team to be made up of players between 22-29.

In 2019 we have the below in the 22-29 bracket with only the bolded from 2018 in that demographic

Cripps, Docherty, Marchbank, Cuningham, Curnow, Curnow, Lang, Fasolo, Jones, Weitering, Silvagni, Pickett, Plowman, Garlett, McGovern, Newman, Goddard, Philips, Owies, Gibbons(potentially) Bugg, Kennedy, Mckay, Casboult