Preview Where will Carlton finish in 2019?

Where will Carlton finish in 2019?

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SickQwon

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When will the heat come on the list guru sos
Probably when he starts making bad list management decisions. Starting the rebuild with injecting high end youth is the right thing to do, no matter how you look at it. Whether these players develop or are coached well is a completely different argument.
 

Stevi_Tigers

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Probably when he starts making bad list management decisions. Starting the rebuild with injecting high end youth is the right thing to do, no matter how you look at it. Whether these players develop or are coached well is a completely different argument.
Looks like he’s made a few blunders
 
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They’re surely favourites to win the spoon now, which would be pretty disastrous given the pick swap last year with Adelaide.

It’s very easy to kick a team when they’re down. Would narrowly beating Gold Coast have made their situation any different apart from the resulting noise? It’s also pretty clear they are not as terrible as last year’s iteration.

Carlton have had to come from a very long way back. It’s easy to pan decisions like letting Eddie Betts go and signing Dale Thomas in hindsight but at the time many questioned the money Adelaide had offered Betts and Thomas had been thought of as a top 5-10 player in the comp not long before crossing to the Blues. Perhaps more could’ve been done to keep a few of Tuohy, Henderson, Waite, Jeff Garlett & Robinson around to help out a younger side. However, some players probably didn’t want to do that and others had discipline problems. The Gibbs trade will take years to determine if there is a real winner.

Long story short, the list that Bolton took over was as putrid as it gets.

All that taken into consideration, the last year and a bit in football terms are unacceptable. 3 wins from 36 and even longer without scoring 100 points is about as terrible as it gets for supporters. When Bolton took over in 2016 and for at least the first part of 2017 there was at least a sound team defensive mechanism. That has pretty much disappeared and the scoring has gotten worse. The jury is still out on many on the list and then there is the unknown damage that constantly losing does to the psyche of the group.

You have to question what the administration is doing in all of this. Was Silvagni the best appointment as list manager? Or was he headhunted because he was formerly of Carlton? Is Robert Walls the best judge of how someone is coaching in the 21st Century? Or is he there because he was formerly of Carlton? The club still seems to operate like it is in the 80s or 90s while the rest of the competition has moved on.
 

WCE Wizard

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Carlton have been pathetic for just about 2 full decades now except for that period between 2009-2011.

They are staring at their 6th spoon in 17 years. That's really bad, especially when you look at the state of their competitors in Brisbane and Gold Coast. Sure they have a young side with a load of talent, but it's only a matter of time before they become conditioned to the losing culture as well. Cripps is the only thing keeping them from losing by 10 goals every game.

This is why complete full rebuilds are a bad idea unless it is absolutely necessary. It introduces a losing culture and gives excuses to cover bad performances. Carlton realistically should be competing for 6-7 wins this season.

They have completely lost their ability to win. The whole club is conditioned to take loss after loss after loss without any real repercussions.
Exactly they say there is belief and we are improving, its all bollocks really, at the end of the day 15 wins and 55 losses in 3 and a bit years WOW. Takes me back to when my team were a rabble from 2008 to 2010 just 17 wins out of 66.
 

caspian

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Carlton need to swap a few picks for some established talent if this year goes to dust (ie another spoon which does look likely). Get a few mid level blokes in from decent clubs, clubs with a good culture, clubs with a high standard etc. Full rebuilds don’t work, over reliance on youth doesn’t work.

I know I’m stating the obvious but I’m not the only one doing it!
 

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bourbons

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After Gold Coast, Saints and Brisbane all started well, I think that just emphasises the issues that Carlton have. I don’t understand why some of the blues fans seem happy with Bolton; as far as I can tell they haven’t really progressed in seasons despite great players being present. They also lost a bunch of close games last year, and the year before.
Just speaking for myself, I'm happy to stick with Bolts coz I reckon his really competitive first year when we had a few more mature bodies running around demonstrated that he can coach. Every year since has seen a fairly large cull at seasons end, we're really missing that senior core of seasoned 24-28 year olds at the minute.

Also with only 2020 to run on his contract, not sure what yet another sacking achieves. It can turn pretty quickly, not saying it definitely will but I'd be sticking with him for time he's contracted for, then making a decision.

Richmond feilded a younger team than Carlton this weekend.
Haven't crunched the numbers, but you take out Murphy, Thomas and Simpson and I'm guessing that changes. As mentioned, vast majority of out players are either over 28 or under 24, that's whats killing us I reckon. Bit easier to perform as a younger player in a side where you have decent support in that bracket.
 

captain cotch 9

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Just speaking for myself, I'm happy to stick with Bolts coz I reckon his really competitive first year when we had a few more mature bodies running around demonstrated that he can coach. Every year since has seen a fairly large cull at seasons end, we're really missing that senior core of seasoned 24-28 year olds at the minute.

Also with only 2020 to run on his contract, not sure what yet another sacking achieves. It can turn pretty quickly, not saying it definitely will but I'd be sticking with him for time he's contracted for, then making a decision.



Haven't crunched the numbers, but you take out Murphy, Thomas and Simpson and I'm guessing that changes. As mentioned, vast majority of out players are either over 28 or under 24, that's whats killing us I reckon. Bit easier to perform as a younger player in a side where you have decent support in that bracket.
Yer probably but they were playing.....
Thats like saying if you took out Edwards, Astbury and Grimes we would of been even younger.
I think we proved age isnt a defining factor in winning or loosing a game.
If the players belive and stick to their system they will most likely win
 

bourbons

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...
Carlton have had to come from a very long way back. It’s easy to pan decisions like letting Eddie Betts go and signing Dale Thomas in hindsight but at the time many questioned the money Adelaide had offered Betts and Thomas had been thought of as a top 5-10 player in the comp not long before crossing to the Blues. Perhaps more could’ve been done to keep a few of Tuohy, Henderson, Waite, Jeff Garlett & Robinson around to help out a younger side. However, some players probably didn’t want to do that and others had discipline problems. The Gibbs trade will take years to determine if there is a real winner.
...
Yup. People always point to Betts but no-one seems to remember his last year at Carlton. $700K? Output that year wasn't even worth 500, unrecognisable from his form since, bloke was missing set shots 25 meters out.

And majority of the others, those players wanted out. Of the players mentioned, from memory only Garlett and Robinson were actively off loaded.

Carlton need to swap a few picks for some established talent if this year goes to dust (ie another spoon which does look likely). Get a few mid level blokes in from decent clubs, clubs with a good culture, clubs with a high standard etc. Full rebuilds don’t work, over reliance on youth doesn’t work.

I know I’m stating the obvious but I’m not the only one doing it!
Easier said than done though, we've gone down the path of recruiting mid-level blokes a fair bit over the last 10 years and it very rarely works out. Blokes like that don't grow on trees, if they're valuable they generally aren't available in the first place.
 

bourbons

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Yer probably but they were playing.....
Thats like saying if you took out Edwards, Astbury and Grimes we would of been even younger.
I think we proved age isnt a defining factor in winning or loosing a game.
If the players belive and stick to their system they will most likely win
True, was just a way of illustrating how thin we are in that seasoned core ie. while Richmond were younger, how many blokes aged 24 to 28 with 70+ games did you have playing?
 

10571z

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Yup. People always point to Betts but no-one seems to remember his last year at Carlton. $700K? Output that year wasn't even worth 500, unrecognisable from his form since, bloke was missing set shots 25 meters out.

And majority of the others, those players wanted out. Of the players mentioned, from memory only Garlett and Robinson were actively off loaded.



Easier said than done though, we've gone down the path of recruiting mid-level blokes a fair bit over the last 10 years and it very rarely works out. Blokes like that don't grow on trees, if they're valuable they generally aren't available in the first place.
Sorry but Thomas was cooked when traded. Everyone knew it except Carlton. Yes at a time he was a gun but you traded him in knowing well he was injured
 

Obeanie1

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Haha yeah fair call , it's hard to keep track of all the Carlton bashing threads. Still take their list over a lot of others though my mob included


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You would take the Blues list ahead of your own team?

Why not change clubs then?

Blues need to win aome games and importantly show some form of improvement in their game plan and execution or Bolton must go.

They have the cattle. They look like they have heart. So why havent they done what the Lions and Suns are doing?

The only out is theyve played Pies and Tigers two top teams.
 

bourbons

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Sorry but Thomas was cooked when traded. Everyone knew it except Carlton. Yes at a time he was a gun but you traded him in knowing well he was injured
I didn't mention Thomas

edit: and yep, probably agree, thanks Mick :D. Reckon it was a pretty dumb decision to get Fasolo in this year too.
 
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We will finish dead last. Whilst there are optimistic signs, nothing is guaranteed until we start winning games. That's the measure of success and as a fan it's taking its toll. Whether or not this rebuild has been a success is still up in the air. We should know by 2021.
 

fnerd

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Won just about every trade.
And their in lies the problem.

Btw define ‘won’

Carlton supporters too busy cupping sos balls for “winning” trades (in their eyes)at trade time rather than he compiling a list that actually is winning GAMES.

#insoswetrust
 
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blitzer

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Carlton will not only finish last but they will be petitioning for compensation picks by mid season. Which incidentally is what I predicted preseason as well. If I was the AFL I would tell them no given they traded away their first rounder but it will be interesting to see what ends up occurring. The AFL will probably take pity on them and throw a start of second round pick their way (even though they will want a pre draft effective pick 1).

Carlton fans throw up all sorts of distractions when assessing their drafting and trading but when you look at the actual list they have after years of rebuilding and the way they play again after years of rebuilding, how anyone can assess it as anything other than an abject failure I have no idea. Literally the only thing that has improved from Carlton last year was getting in Walsh who needed zero development and came in ready to go. Actually I kind of like the look of Harry McKay too to be fair although Curnow has weirdly gone backwards. Honestly its hard to tell which Carlton players are actually talented and which aren't because their system is bad, their skills are bad and the few good players get mostly drowned out by the rest.
 
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