Opinion Where will Patrick Dangerfield rank amongst the greats?

[MC Extra Dollop]

What do you mean by perhaps? His career Disposal Efficiency is at 65.3% which the AFL website/app deems as "Below Average" His "Kicking Efficiency" is 57.0% which is deemed as "Average". It's pretty clear Dangerfield isn't the best kick.

Anyway, he isn't the best kick so he gets a ️ in terms of his career assessment however he is a midfielder who also adds scoreboard impact and for me thats big tick ️......he averages just over a goal per game...thats very good for a midfielder.

I mean he's a metres gained player, a line breaker: run 15-20m, then kick it 55-60m up the ground. I suspect that once you take out the players who regularly kick in for their teams, Danger would be near the top of the league for metres gained over the past 10 years, especially if we're focusing on pure midfielders. Of course you can argue that he doesn’t take kick ins because he isn't a reliable enough kick, which is correct, but he also doesn't need to, because he's a threat in the air or in a pack.

When you combine the line breaking part of his game with him being the all-time league leader for clearances and contested possessions, it gives you an idea why we probably shouldn't expect Dangerfield to be going at 90%: he gets it in traffic and when he kicks it, he'll look to use the penetration that he gets on his kicks as a weapon.

Now, my suspicion is that when Danger does his run and long kick trademark, his DE is downgraded if it goes to a pack and spills to the ground. If I'm right on that, I'd argue that it's an effective kick because the play has gained 70m of territory without turning it over. Unless it goes directly to an opponent, I think those long kicks are effective.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Selwood was a better captain, but not a better footballer. And there's some bald bloke and his Dad in front of both of them

If you mark them purely by what they achieved at Geelong, which would make sense to me when considering Geelong's greatest ever player, I don't know how it can be anyone but Selwood.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Voss
Hird
Harvey
Buckley
Akernanis
Mitchell
Crawford
Cotchin
Priddis
Dangerfield
Wowoedin

Something like that

Surprised you didn't.fimd room for Katie in front of him

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Has to be close surely.

In my time watching? In no particular order

Ablett Sr
Ablett Jr
Hawkins
Selwood
Enright
Danger
Scarlett
Stewart probably
Johnson
Bartel or Chapman

I’d say if I had to rank Danger he’s at least better than Bartel, Chapman, Enright (absolute champion but probably had the easiest role of those guys once he shifted permanently from midfield-defence to pure defence), Stewart, and it might only be length of service that keeps him behind a guy like Hawkins.

I know we had a lot of guns in the 90s but as a kid it was harder for me to see what made them great - it’s difficult for a kid to see what makes a midfielder like Couch stand out as opposed to Ablett Sr who you could watch for 5 minutes and know he was a freak so realistically Couch or others might be just as deserving but I wasn’t aware enough to see it back then.

You could just as easily nominate Cameron who has been a top 5-10 player in the league the whole time he’s been with us but hasn’t been with us for long enough

For me it's :
Snr
Jnr
Scarlett
Dangerfield
Selwood
Hocking
Johnson
Chapman
Enright
Diesel Williams (if he stayed longer, he'd be much higher)

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Was immense early in the 2022 GF

A lot of Geelong supporters thought he went close NS that day

Including me, he was robbed.

 

[Lunchtime]

Well for one, we don’t ‘cry’ about that: because we won it.
I can’t recall many cats fans getting particularly upset about high fend offs from Toby Thurstans 18 seasons on from the event, can you? That’s what the reference was to. Your MENSA accredited co-supporter Smasha and his refusal to drop the campaign to retroactively suspend Dangerfield for a fend off 5 years ago.

If you’re going to try and draw an equivalency, at least try and make the competition an equal one.

You’re comparing ‘giving shit’ with having a whinge.

Including me, he was robbed.

I thought Smith was a worthy winner of the Norm Smith medal. Dangerfield was good, Smith was better. It happens.

 

[STPer18]

I thought Smith was a worthy winner of the Norm Smith medal.

Correct.

Dangerfield was good, Smith was better.

Incorrect.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

I don't understand the hate that he gets. He's undoubtedly got a bit of an ego, but it hasn't really felt to me that he's got a dickhead ego (which I hope makes sense). And he's able to take the piss out of his ego too (gifting his wife the arms-out-wife photo of himself for her birthday or Mother's Day, the ad with the little kids and being "pissed" that it was Tuohy instead of him etc), which for me suggests he's at least self-aware.

On the field though, it makes even less sense to hate him - he's an absolute prototype for a midfielder/forward hybrid and it's hard to think of a more competitive beast in the league. Just consistently wills himself to get to the contest, then has explosive power and acceleration to get out of there as well. Massive scoreboard impact for a midfielder and does genuinely inspiring things on a weekly basis.

Here's where I have him standing in Brownlow Medallists since 2000 (and I seriously rate some of those players I've put below him too):

Gary Ablett Jr
Dustin Martin
Adam Goodes
Chris Judd
Nathan Buckley
Patrick Dangerfield
Jimmy Bartel
Mark Ricciuto

Mark Ricciuto

Age

49

Ht

184cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

8.3

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

0.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.2

3star

Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

177cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

Ben Cousins
Dane Swan

Dane Swan

Age

41

Ht

185cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.9

5star

K

16.4

5star

HB

10.4

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

3.1

5star

CL

5.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

Jason Akermanis
Sam Mitchell
Nat Fyfe
Simon Black
Tom Mitchell
Trent Cotchin

9

Trent Cotchin

Age

35

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

5.2

5star

D

19.0

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.5

4star

D

16.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.0

3star

Ollie Wines
Matt Priddis
Shane Woewoedin
Adam Cooney

Adam Cooney

Age

39

Ht

187cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.8

4star

You can argue with my list, but that's not really the point. He's an out and out champion of the game and stands right in the top echelon of players this century.

 

[Xtreme]

Surprised you didn't.fimd room for Katie in front of him

I reckon its neck and neck between Danger and...... Timmy!

 

[Partridge]

If you mark them purely by what they achieved at Geelong, which would make sense to me when considering Geelong's greatest ever player, I don't know how it can be anyone but Selwood.

That's where it gets murky though. Are the achievements individual, or what the team did while they were there? Individually by any metric Selwood isn't in the same solar system as Ablett senior, and he's nowhere near junior either, and that's just from Geelong games. If team success is the metric - and I don't see how it can be when we're talking about individual players - there'd be a lot of Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond and Hawthorn players from the past that should then automatically be the best for their club. Michael Tuck played in (I think) 7 premierships, but pretty sure that most Hawthorn supporters spanning here would not put him ahead of Peter Hudson, who only managed to play in one.

 

[peetoo]

Surprised chappy isn’t higher in Geelong posters lists

 

[Dr Tigris]

Danger will be at the level below the genuine GREATS of his era (Buddy, GAJ and Dusty in finals). But for the rest I'd have him with or above Cripps for example.

That's pretty amazing really.

 

[PhatBoy]

Surprised chappy isn’t higher in Geelong posters lists

We all love him and yes he was a sensational big game player and real hard nut but (and cue some predictable posts from certain factions) I, and I’m sure many others, see players who kept a level across their whole careers as being better.

Sometimes players who were ‘good’ in general and then played better in big games get elevated to this mythical status because they played some memorable big matches.

Chapman certainly did that.

Meanwhile he had teammates who played at a similar level in big matches but who also kept that same level all season long.

Chapman was still a very good player in general, don’t get me wrong: but not as good as some of the others being me mentioned

 

[peetoo]

We all love him and yes he was a sensational big game player and real hard nut but (and cue some predictable posts from certain factions) I, and I’m sure many others, see players who kept a level across their whole careers as being better.

Sometimes players who were ‘good’ in general and then played better in big games get elevated to this mythical status because they played some memorable big matches.

Chapman certainly did that.

Meanwhile he had teammates who played at a similar level in big matches but who also kept that same level all season long.

Chapman was still a very good player in general, don’t get me wrong: but not as good as some of the others being me mentioned

I do remember hawks Geelong game late season cats maybe 06 docklands Kjust missed the finals and he seemed to be the only cats player giving a stuff about it

I have the impression of a guy who turned up every week whatever. But of course you would have seen more of his games than I

 

[PhatBoy]

I do remember hawks Geelong game late season cats maybe 06 docklands Kjust missed the finals and he seemed to be the only cats player giving a stuff about it

I have the impression of a guy who turned up every week whatever. But of course you would have seen more of his games than I

He definitely always gave his all but as far as his actual quality of play went he had a knack for saving some of his best individual performances for games that mattered. A norm smith, higher goal and goal+goal assist averages in finals than in H/A footy, 8 finals of 15+ touches and 2+ goals, a finals series where he went
16-2
26-5-1 assist
26-3-1 assist

like I said I feel like we had a lot of players who had a similar finals level but that level was fairly consistent for all their footy where as his normal standard was maybe just a tier below theirs

 

[Lunchtime]

Correct.

Incorrect.

It's open to opinion.

 

[Partridge]

He definitely always gave his all but as far as his actual quality of play went he had a knack for saving some of his best individual performances for games that mattered. A norm smith, higher goal and goal+goal assist averages in finals than in H/A footy, 8 finals of 15+ touches and 2+ goals, a finals series where he went
16-2
26-5-1 assist
26-3-1 assist

like I said I feel like we had a lot of players who had a similar finals level but that level was fairly consistent for all their footy where as his normal standard was maybe just a tier below theirs

Chappy's peak to me was as good as anyone's except Ablett's (say 2006-2009) but didn't sustain it for perhaps as long as others. Having said that, it's not beyond the realm to put him ahead of say Bartel. His best was magnificent and a pretty consistent finals performer too.

 

[PhatBoy]

Chappy's peak to me was as good as anyone's except Ablett's (say 2006-2009) but didn't sustain it for perhaps as long as others. Having said that, it's not beyond the realm to put him ahead of say Bartel. His best was magnificent and a pretty consistent finals performer too.

In 2009 he was collecting 27 touches, about 1.8 goals and a goal assist per game, and yeah I’d be inclined to agree, he was virtually as good as anyone getting around

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Now, my suspicion is that when Danger does his run and long kick trademark, his DE is downgraded if it goes to a pack and spills to the ground. If I'm right on that, I'd argue that it's an effective kick because the play has gained 70m of territory without turning it over. Unless it goes directly to an opponent, I think those long kicks are effective.

For Kicking efficieny:
Effective Long Kick: A kick of more than 40 metres to a 50/50 contest or better for the team.
Effective Short Kick: A kick of less than 40 metres that results in the intended target retaining possession. Does not include kicks that are spoiled by the opposition.

Glossary – AFL – Champion Data

www.championdata.com

https://www.championdata.com/glossa...g Kick: A kick,are spoiled by the opposition.

 

[STPer18]

Including me, he was robbed.

Geelong 2022 had a rock solid backline and 3x AAs that season in the forward line with Hawkins, Cameron & Stengle. Only way the Swans were winning that one was getting in top in the middle but Dangerfield was the apex predator that day.

Stoppage, Danger gets the ball going forward, Geelong score. Brutalised the Swans midfield in the first half to set up the win.



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[Lingsface]

Playing like a Leigh Matthews at the end of his career type role.

 

[sleep]

Chappy's peak to me was as good as anyone's except Ablett's (say 2006-2009) but didn't sustain it for perhaps as long as others. Having said that, it's not beyond the realm to put him ahead of say Bartel. His best was magnificent and a pretty consistent finals performer too.

Bartel is better than Chappy.



43:20 - Chappy rates Jimmy B as the best player he's played with > Jnr (Jnr's obviously a better player)

Jimmy criminally underrated.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Surprised chappy isn’t higher in Geelong posters lists

Him and Johnson absolute game changers in different ways to each other, A perfect mix.

Always in my top 10 of best and favourites.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

That's where it gets murky though. Are the achievements individual, or what the team did while they were there? Individually by any metric Selwood isn't in the same solar system as Ablett senior, and he's nowhere near junior either, and that's just from Geelong games. If team success is the metric - and I don't see how it can be when we're talking about individual players - there'd be a lot of Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond and Hawthorn players from the past that should then automatically be the best for their club. Michael Tuck played in (I think) 7 premierships, but pretty sure that most Hawthorn supporters spanning here would not put him ahead of Peter Hudson, who only managed to play in one.

Correct. Lots of Saints greats never played in a premiership. Then you have Bob Skilton and Haydn Bunton - 3 x brownlow but never a premiership. Even worse, Bunton never played a final and Skilton played just 1 final.

 

[Partridge]

Correct. Lots of Saints greats never played in a premiership. Then you have Bob Skilton and Haydn Bunton - 3 x brownlow but never a premiership. Even worse, Bunton never played a final and Skilton played just 1 final.

Bunton must have been something else. 3 Brownlows and 3 Sandovers when there wasn't that big a gap in talent between the two competitions.

My dad always said Skilton (along with Coleman) was the best player he'd ever seen. To me he's one of the true absolute greats (and there are very few of them). I don't need sycophantic ex-players giving out All-Australian selections to know that.