Opinion WHERE WILL THE IMPROVEMENT COME FROM?

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CursingFijian

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Goals. That is what will transform Billings career. If we can get him back to being a goal kicking half forward who can share the load in the middle then I think he can move into elite territory. A goal a game with a sprinkling of 3 and 4 and we will suddenly look at him a little differently.

Jack needs to be a fraction less about the link up and more about going to goal. He is good above his head, reads play well, tackles and contests the groundball well too. I feel like under Richardson, his game went from being more of a Jack Higgins type to a Seb Ross type. He needs to rediscover his love for a goal. Get on the end of a few chains Jack!

It's the one reason many want Gresham to play forward. He is goal hungry. I remember Gresh running past Riewoldt as a draftee to take the responsibility of kicking for goal. And that's what it is...a responsibility. King, Membrey and Sharman are all willing conduits to goal. We need our smalls to be the same. Billings needs to play more like Higgins. And Kent and Long, who often look like they would rather go to the dentist than shoot on goal should consider themselves lucky if they crack the best 22.
 

Fehring

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We still need him to be an A grade player not a sometimes player. He's getting very close to a disappointing waste of a career done in cruise mode. He does enough to get re contracted and then coasts through with little fuss.

Reportedly played through a pretty significant injury in 21. He has proven he can be A grade for half a season. Needs to do it for a full year.
 

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Mstr Strokesman

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Isn’t it ironic that the football world would hang it on Richmond recruiters for taking Tambling over Buddy and Fiona over Pavlich.
Billings instead of The Bont,McCartin over Petracca .Mmmmm just another St.kilda wrong turn moment …..again.
You have to get the top picks absolutely right,no ifs ,no buts,top 5 picks have to be nailed to win Premierships.
 

CursingFijian

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Isn’t it ironic that the football world would hang it on Richmond recruiters for taking Tambling over Buddy and Fiona over Pavlich.
Billings instead of The Bont,McCartin over Petracca .Mmmmm just another St.kilda wrong turn moment …..again.
You have to get the top picks absolutely right,no ifs ,no buts,top 5 picks have to be nailed to win Premierships.
The narrative around the McCartin pick still isn't over yet either. If Sydney pick him up and he turns into a half decent forward we will never hear the end of it. Although it may eliminate any fault at our end if CTE becomes a long term issue for Patrick.
 

ScrappyDo

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If we have Ryder and Marshall playing together in the majority of matches, then we will have an advantage over most teams.


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I actually prefer that Sharman get the nod and Marshall plays sole ruckman for the majority of games. For all Paddy's greatness our mids can't seem to take the advantage and Marshall ain't so pretty but jeez he's effective.
8-10 games maximum for Paddy then cherry ripe for finals.
 

BrutThough

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I actually prefer that Sharman get the nod and Marshall plays sole ruckman for the majority of games. For all Paddy's greatness our mids can't seem to take the advantage and Marshall ain't so pretty but jeez he's effective.
8-10 games maximum for Paddy then cherry ripe for finals.
That makes no sense.
 

CursingFijian

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That makes no sense.
Which part?

Sharman utilising his leap as a ruck forward? Or sitting Ryder out?

I think we have to start the season with our best team on the park. So the Ryder/Marshall combination is essential. But I agree at some stage we will have to rest Ryder, and I'm keen to know what you think the alternative ruck arrangement look likes like.
 

tomjoad

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Z. Jones. If he stays on the park, it'll be massive for the other guys on ball. If the younger guys hitting the sweet spot of their careers can lift 5-10% then our team will be unrecognisable to the swill we've put on the park over the last decade.

Unfortunately, I just can't agree with anyone saying Billings has something left to offer. His new contract is a bitter pill for me to swallow. I understand he played with injury last year, but he has been a huge disappointment overall. A squandered talent seemingly happy with mediocrity, the thought of him getting to 200 games with us sickens my arse.
 

ScrappyDo

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Z. Jones. If he stays on the park, it'll be massive for the other guys on ball. If the younger guys hitting the sweet spot of their careers can lift 5-10% then our team will be unrecognisable to the swill we've put on the park over the last decade.

Unfortunately, I just can't agree with anyone saying Billings has something left to offer. His new contract is a bitter pill for me to swallow. I understand he played with injury last year, but he has been a huge disappointment overall. A squandered talent seemingly happy with mediocrity, the thought of him getting to 200 games with us sickens my arse.
+1 Tom
I wanted JB and Seb gone but at least they're on cheaper deals that have demoted them in the pecking order. I still don't like it but l can live with it. All teams have players that supporters dont want/like but now these guys can get dropped coz they're just part of the masses now. Hopefully the kids push them out.
 

tomjoad

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+1 Tom
I wanted JB and Seb gone but at least they're on cheaper deals that have demoted them in the pecking order. I still don't like it but l can live with it. All teams have players that supporters dont want/like but now these guys can get dropped coz they're just part of the masses now. Hopefully the kids push them out.

Ah, man...I hope you're right about the kids. To be honest though I don't mind Seb so much. He's solid in his averageness, and has managed to get something out of it, even being above average for chunks of his career...but Billings, screw him, undeniable talent, and has the ability to turn games, but it's only when HE chooses. Overrated on the wing, and shits the bed when forward. I just don't get it. Wish we had of just delisted him to be honest...but I can understand not throwing the big baby out with the bath water he's drank throughout his career. We need to keep some of the guys drafted from 2010-13. He was one of the few left I guess.
 
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pebblesofsand

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Goals. That is what will transform Billings career. If we can get him back to being a goal kicking half forward who can share the load in the middle then I think he can move into elite territory. A goal a game with a sprinkling of 3 and 4 and we will suddenly look at him a little differently.

Jack needs to be a fraction less about the link up and more about going to goal. He is good above his head, reads play well, tackles and contests the groundball well too. I feel like under Richardson, his game went from being more of a Jack Higgins type to a Seb Ross type. He needs to rediscover his love for a goal. Get on the end of a few chains Jack!

It's the one reason many want Gresham to play forward. He is goal hungry. I remember Gresh running past Riewoldt as a draftee to take the responsibility of kicking for goal. And that's what it is...a responsibility. King, Membrey and Sharman are all willing conduits to goal. We need our smalls to be the same. Billings needs to play more like Higgins. And Kent and Long, who often look like they would rather go to the dentist than shoot on goal should consider themselves lucky if they crack the best 22.
Yep - likely to play forward more which means he should also be aiming to get his goal average up AND still be run through the midfield at times. Will help if DMac continues his improvement and slots into Billings spot on the wing.
 

BrutThough

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Yes it does.
No it doesn't.

First off, our results and performances show we play better when Ryder is rucking. So your assessment that we don't take advantage of Ryder rucking is incorrect since our performances show otherwise.

Then you want Ryder to play less than 50% of the games because we dont take advantage of him and Marshall is the more effective ruck, yet come finals time you would want Ryder to be playing? Why would switching to who you have deemed the less effective ruck comes finals time be a good idea? Especially when you say its ideal for that ruck to play less than half the games. If Marshall is the superior ruck and we've used him as the main ruck for the majority of games, why would you change that comes finals time?
 

BrutThough

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Which part?

Sharman utilising his leap as a ruck forward? Or sitting Ryder out?

I think we have to start the season with our best team on the park. So the Ryder/Marshall combination is essential. But I agree at some stage we will have to rest Ryder, and I'm keen to know what you think the alternative ruck arrangement look likes like.
My guess is we will go first time with Campbell when Ryder is first rested to stay consistent with the 2 ruck set up and see if that works. But we will need to decide on those weeks if Marshall is the main ruck or still a forward/ruck, because that may determine which way we go with Ryder's long term replacement.
 
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Jack Green

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Ah, man...I hope you're right about the kids. To be honest though I don't mind Seb so much. He's solid in his averageness, and has managed to get something out of it, even being above average for chunks of his career...but Billings, screw him, undeniable talent, and has the ability to turn games, but it's only when HE chooses. Overrated on the wing, and shits the bed when forward. I just don't get it. Wish we had of just delisted him to be honest...but I can understand not throwing the big baby out with the bath water he's drank throughout his career. We need to keep some of the guys drafted from 2010-13. He was one of the few left I guess.
Yeah, Ross and Billings have both been good solid B graders haven't they. Ross always higher on the b and f count cause of durabilty and where he plays. Both good servants of the club. We hold Billings to a higher account due to his high pick and higher potential though . Disappointing career - probably . Still think he'll be good value the next few years , but not AA standard.

We desperately need some breakout players to become stars to join Steele don't we. If the players we hope don't do this but play 150 games like Seb and JB the next few years , then we get stuck middle of the table like we are at the moment. Think our big boys will determine our trajectory. a 22 year old King and 26 year old Marshall. I think we are a 7-10 side but these 2 improve substantially we can be top 6 :thumbsu:
 

gringo2011

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Ah, man...I hope you're right about the kids. To be honest though I don't mind Seb so much. He's solid in his averageness, and has managed to get something out of it, even being above average for chunks of his career...but Billings, screw him, undeniable talent, and has the ability to turn games, but it's only when HE chooses. Overrated on the wing, and shits the bed when forward. I just don't get it. Wish we had of just delisted him to be honest...but I can understand not throwing the big baby out with the bath water he's drank throughout his career. We need to keep some of the guys drafted from 2010-13. He was one of the few left I guess.


That's tough, JB is talented beyond what most players get given, he's compared to Bont who has the drive and self confidence to react before thinking. Billings looks like the type that would think before acting, plenty of players who become champions are too dumb to have a neurotic mental state that hinders performance.

I see JB as a guy that in real life would be a great guy but doesn't have the psychotic competitiveness and lack of self awareness to be a star. If he gets a good start to a game he tends to have his belief build to a point where he can play like a champion but the cracks open up if he misses a set shot or pulls out of a tackle.

My mate who was a rower said the guys that make it to the top have a mental state where competitiveness is almost pathological. Riewoldt gives that vibe. Lenny too but Sir Lenny had the ability to switch off when he wasn't on field, he was a proper white line fever player.

Wayne Carey, DeGoey etc seem like they operate on instinct on field, we seem to have chased players who had the nice factor which seems to have excluded the dumb arse knuckle draggers but also lost a generation of dominant dumb fu**s.
 

Gershwin

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I actually prefer that Sharman get the nod and Marshall plays sole ruckman for the majority of games. For all Paddy's greatness our mids can't seem to take the advantage and Marshall ain't so pretty but jeez he's effective.
8-10 games maximum for Paddy then cherry ripe for finals.
Ryder tapping to Gresham is a thing of beauty and will result in goals. Jones is Ryder's 2nd favourite target. Marshall is a dangerous CHF leading up the ground and spelling Ryder. King at FF with Membrey, Sharman, Higgins, Billings and Butler rounding out the forwards.
 

gringo2011

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Ryder tapping to Gresham is a thing of beauty and will result in goals. Jones is Ryder's 2nd favourite target. Marshall is a dangerous CHF leading up the ground and spelling Ryder. King at FF with Membrey, Sharman, Higgins, Billings and Butler rounding out the forwards.


It's going to be a balancing act with Paddy, he's going to be 34 or something this year and he's starting to get injuries. We need a transition plan anyway and having him fit for finals is going to make a difference. I think Campbell will play a bit.
 

Mowman

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Which part?

Sharman utilising his leap as a ruck forward? Or sitting Ryder out?

I think we have to start the season with our best team on the park. So the Ryder/Marshall combination is essential. But I agree at some stage we will have to rest Ryder, and I'm keen to know what you think the alternative ruck arrangement look likes like.
Agree
 

Mowman

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I see JB as a guy that in real life would be a great guy but doesn't have the psychotic competitiveness and lack of self awareness to be a star. If he gets a good start to a game he tends to have his belief build to a point where he can play like a champion but the cracks open up if he misses a set shot or pulls out of a tackle.
I'm hoping JB has a huge year, been very underplayed how sore he was last year with his foot
 

gringo2011

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I'm hoping JB has a huge year, been very underplayed how sore he was last year with his foot


I reckon if we improve then there is probably more to come from guys like Billings, Ross, Gresham, Marshall, Hill etc who have been high level players but have fallen away for what ever reason as there is from improvement in the youth. We ideally need both at once and a decent run of injury.

You get a good year out of them, Snags, Sharman, King, Clark, Coff, Paton etc all go up a cog. Battle and McKenzie types push for spots etc and we are a good chance of improving enough to play finals. Probably need more from Crouch too.
 

Gershwin

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Which part?

Sharman utilising his leap as a ruck forward? Or sitting Ryder out?

I think we have to start the season with our best team on the park. So the Ryder/Marshall combination is essential. But I agree at some stage we will have to rest Ryder, and I'm keen to know what you think the alternative ruck arrangement look likes like.
Campbell to replace a resting Ryder. Would like to think King is learning the craft so that he can take forward line ruck contests.
 

Mowman

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I reckon if we improve then there is probably more to come from guys like Billings, Ross, Gresham, Marshall, Hill etc who have been high level players but have fallen away for what ever reason as there is from improvement in the youth. We ideally need both at once and a decent run of injury.

You get a good year out of them, Snags, Sharman, King, Clark, Coff, Paton etc all go up a cog. Battle and McKenzie types push for spots etc and we are a good chance of improving enough to play finals. Probably need more from Crouch too.
I thought Crouch was pretty good for his 1st year at the club and will be better again next year
 

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