Where will we finish in 2021 ?

Where will the Hawks finish in 2021 ?


  • Total voters
    145
  • Poll closed .

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Davo-27

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 9, 2006
5,868
8,262
Melbourne
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Hawthorn
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we're coming from a position of 5 wins 12 losses and 84% on the ladder, which is pretty bad, all the excuses in the world does not excuse that record (people solely blaming the HUB need a reality check) missing the finals in 3 out of 4 years and the one time we made the finals we went 0-2 in the finals, so change was needed and we have moved on a lot of players and hopefully scrapped the UGLY and Defensive play style we had to adopt while playing the once champions within our team in the last few years.

a new year and new hope springs eternal, i think the inclusion of Hartigan will help us in the short term, he isnt great, but he is comparable to Frawley in that he can do a job for us for a couple of seasons, Phillips will be a boost to our flaccid midfield, giving us a player of high footy IQ, i liked him at Collingwood and he has been really good for us in the pre-season, i think the emergence of Downie on the wing as a strong and courageous youngster who can kick a nice long goal will offset the loss of Isaac Smith, the emergence of Greaves last year and the possible emergence of a few others in the backline and midfield could give us selection headaches or at the very least some much needed depth, Day could be used as a half back or wing?, Brockman could get some games, he has talent, but lacks production in that he can go missing and we have a few like that already who are locks inside our starting 22, DGB could get a dozen games as a 3rd man up type before he fills out a bit, Kosi could get opportunities to see if he can kick bags of goals as that CHF floating inside and out of the 50m arc so we have some real excitement as far as youth is concerned

for me theres a clear group of players i have faith in that they can play at the level, then theres a group of players that could be good, but we wont know until they play a bit more and atm we're in that phase of finding out who can step up and who cant (thats where the excitement for 2021 is coming from)

i think we are in a better position than last year, so i expect improvement on the ladder, the question is how much and how soon? it all depends on how our selection committee choose their teams, if we choose based on longevity at being at the club, or based on AFL experience only, then we might struggle and then be forced to play the kids when the season and spirit within the club is dead(which has been a theme over the last 4 years), but i hope that best talent available is selected, which has not been the case in recent years, there has been this unfortunate bias to experience which has seen Vickery, Scully, Minchington, Patton, Brooksby given opportunity over Lewis, Greaves, Scrimshaw ect, its almost as if some data analyst is there saying experience wins games and thats why we pick our teams with these older and less talented players, rather than using common sense and selecting best available, which is frustrating and i hope we stop doing that. *rant over*

overall i think we have a chance to finish between 8th and 14th, i think Clarko can get the best out of the talent he has available, but the mistakes of the past few years could hold us back? theres a lot of unknowns.
 
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Mercy Seat

Premiership Player
Sep 23, 2008
3,912
9,693
melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
we're coming from a position of 5 wins 12 losses and 84% on the ladder, which is pretty bad, all the excuses in the world does not excuse that record (people solely blaming the HUB need a reality check) missing the finals in 3 out of 4 years and the one time we made the finals we went 0-2 in the finals, so change was needed and we have moved on a lot of players and hopefully scrapped the UGLY and Defensive play style we had to adopt while playing the once champions within our team in the last few years.

a new year and new hope springs eternal, i think the inclusion of Hartigan will help us in the short term, he isnt great, but he is comparable to Frawley in that he can do a job for us for a couple of seasons, Phillips will be a boost to our flaccid midfield, giving us a player of high footy IQ, i liked him at Collingwood and he has been really good for us in the pre-season, i think the emergence of Downie on the wing as a strong and courageous youngster who can kick a nice long goal will offset the loss of Isaac Smith, the emergence of Greaves last year and the possible emergence of a few others in the backline and midfield could give us selection headaches or at the very least some much needed depth, Day could be used as a half back or wing?, Brockman could get some games, he has talent, but lacks production in that he can go missing and we have a few like that already who are locks inside our starting 22, DGB could get a dozen games as a 3rd man up type before he fills out a bit, Kosi could get opportunities to see if he can kick bags of goals as that CHF floating inside and out of the 50m arc so we have some real excitement as far as youth is concerned

for me theres a clear group of players i have faith in that they can play at the level, then theres a group of players that could be good, but we wont know until they play a bit more and atm we're in that phase of finding out who can step up and who cant (thats where the excitement for 2021 is coming from)

i think we are in a better position than last year, so i expect improvement on the ladder, the question is how much and how soon? it all depends on how our selection committee choose their teams, if we choose based on longevity at being at the club, or based on AFL experience only, then we might struggle and then be forced to play the kids when the season and spirit within the club is dead, but i hope that best talent available is selected, which has not been the case in recent years, there has been this unfortunate bias to experience which has seen Scully, Minchington, Patton, Brooksby given opportunity over Lewis, Greaves, Scrimshaw ect, its almost as if some data analyst is there saying experience wins games and thats why we pick our teams, rather than using common sense and selecting best available. *rant over*
Is anyone blaming the hubs entirely? There were fundamental structural problems with the team, the list, etc as you quite rightly pointed out. The amount of changes over the off season suggest a general acceptance of this, but it’s still a long road back and the list still needs work.

The reference to hubs, confidence etc is just in response to partly why we couldn’t just change our game plan on a dime midway through our form slide last year.
 

cryptor

Brownlow Medallist
May 11, 2008
19,424
42,729
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Is anyone blaming the hubs entirely? There were fundamental structural problems with the team, the list, etc as you quite rightly pointed out. The amount of changes over the off season suggest a general acceptance of this, but it’s still a long road back and the list still needs work.

The reference to hubs, confidence etc is just in response to partly why we couldn’t just change our game plan on a dime midway through our form slide last year.
I reckon the hubs were just a catalyst that revealed the deficiencies that were already present. In a way it was a good thing because now they've been brought to the surface for all to see and can now be addressed - and I believe we've already made great strides here.

It was good that it happened in a league season that history won't rate as legitimate as others, and also during a period of great list turnover. Allowing the club to engrain the necessary changes early on in the rebuilding process. We wouldn't want to be having to work out how to implement all these changes when we're back in what should be a premiership window.
 

Bardo State

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 21, 2010
12,354
14,091
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Stratton should not have been playing after about round 6. Simple as that. Removing him from the team and changing the balance down back would have effected the way the ball was moved forward, and I would suggest impacted results. Not a heap, but at least a couple.
It really is a drop in the bucket compared to how thoroughly we were smashed in the middle, though.

You look at the areas where we were really disadvantaged and it was contested possessions, clearances, disposals and contested marks. Even compared to the next worst teams (Sydney, Crows, Bombers), we were giving up twice as big a contested possessions differential to our opponents. And only the Crows kept us company for clearances. You just can't get ball movement and transition right when you're setting up to defend after stoppages that often.

That shouldn't happen when we're playing Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel.

So the coaches identified it and are going to run a lot more players through the inside and give McEvoy more centre square time.

I don't think we'll be as thoroughly beaten through there again. And the forward class of Gunston, Breust and Wingard should see us out of the bottom 6 if they stay on the park.

If the midfield mix gives similar results as last year, it will be time to 'blow it up' and try something different with size, speed or skill.
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
7,142
16,922
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It really is a drop in the bucket compared to how thoroughly we were smashed in the middle, though.

You look at the areas where we were really disadvantaged and it was contested possessions, clearances, disposals and contested marks. Even compared to the next worst teams (Sydney, Crows, Bombers), we were giving up twice as big a contested possessions differential to our opponents. And only the Crows kept us company for clearances. You just can't get ball movement and transition right when you're setting up to defend after stoppages that often.

That shouldn't happen when we're playing Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel.

So the coaches identified it and are going to run a lot more players through the inside and give McEvoy more centre square time.

I don't think we'll be as thoroughly beaten through there again. And the forward class of Gunston, Breust and Wingard should see us out of the bottom 6 if they stay on the park.

If the midfield mix gives similar results as last year, it will be time to 'blow it up' and try something different with size, speed or skill.
Exactly, we did well to get as close as we were in most games despite the flogging we took in the middle.

Reality is we don't need to win contested ball and clearances, but we need to get close enough that it's not an avalanche of ball against that is constantly peppering our defense.
 

Dew2KFC2Flag08

Senior List
Oct 12, 2008
232
470
Melb, south east suburbs
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal, Portland Trail Blazers
The pre-season has given me some optimism I didn’t have but I still don’t know how many teams we can come above and how many wins we can notch up. I’m not jumping the gun just yet on pre-season vs North, I’ll stick with 14th to 16th place for now ahead of North and Adelaide, and maybe 1 or 2 others. If things really click 10-12.
 

Pessimistic

Make me an Admin!
Sep 13, 2000
81,213
38,209
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
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FMD this sh*t again we do not train the whole pre season to play this game plan. No one does no one. We haven't trained to do this. This is NOT our game plan. How many times have I explained this. You have to give the opposition some credit. Sometimes there are no options and we are forced to kick it long. Players on the field in their running patterns, execution, confidence and skills determine how well we execute the plan that we actually want to play. Players lose confidence during the season turning the ball over trying to execute and become more conservative.

Edit: Game plans involve different structures and we have at least 9 that i have counted
9 game plans agreed...but no plan B ;)
 

Pessimistic

Make me an Admin!
Sep 13, 2000
81,213
38,209
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
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Horks
I reckon the hubs were just a catalyst that revealed the deficiencies that were already present. In a way it was a good thing because now they've been brought to the surface for all to see and can now be addressed - and I believe we've already made great strides here.

It was good that it happened in a league season that history won't rate as legitimate as others, and also during a period of great list turnover. Allowing the club to engrain the necessary changes early on in the rebuilding process. We wouldn't want to be having to work out how to implement all these changes when we're back in what should be a premiership window.
When it got to it, some clubs were in qld at a nice time of year and we’re playing out of two venues (similar to marvel and mcg) after a bit of continuity like that it would have seemed like home

I’m not saying it was done on purpose, but the hawks run was very disjointed and acknowledged as being incrementally the worst.we finished the season with a pantsing of gold coat whom we were due to play mid season before there was a second rejigging
 

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