Toast Where will Zorko be regarded among Lions greats?

Where will Zorko be regarded among Lions greats once he retires?

  • Amongst the very best

    Votes: 11 15.9%
  • Club Champion

    Votes: 37 53.6%
  • Loyal servant

    Votes: 15 21.7%
  • Just another player

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Will depend on future finals performances

    Votes: 6 8.7%

  • Total voters
    69

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martinson

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I'd have him in the side for all 3 GF wins.

Dayne Zorko in.

2001- Tim Notting out.
2002- Aaron Shattock out.
2003- Richard Hadley out.

Too much emphasis should not be placed on grand final wins when determining the greatness of a player IMO, plenty of great players never played in a flag side eg. Tony Lockett, Gary Ablett Snr, Nick Reiwoldt, Robert Harvey, Kevin Murray, Bernie Quinlan.
To be a premiership player you have to be in a side that plays in one agreed. I think Zorks has been underestimated since he set foot in the place.

A loyal servant who's had to carry us sometimes when we were weak. I'd love to have seen him in a good side when he was in his prime.

But he still has an outstanding record . I'm as guilty as anyone else of thinking players of older eras were better. Collingwood probably should have beaten us in 2002 and most of the players in their side that day are long forgotten ,many not really rated. So it's a fine line between legendary status and just a good player at times . I can't see any way Zorko wouldn't have been a gun player in 2000- 4 and a triple premiership player. Just my opinion.
 

martinson

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Zorko was thrust into the Captaincy mid season when we were a young side at a fairly low ebb and has led us magnificently culminating in 2 2nds at the end of the H/A season yet he personally never seems to get any credit for the massive improvement in culture and performance. Even from our own supporters.

So imo he's a great leader as well as player.
 

Scubaveg

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I'd have him in the side for all 3 GF wins.

Dayne Zorko in.

2001- Tim Notting out.
2002- Aaron Shattock out.
2003- Richard Hadley out.

Too much emphasis should not be placed on grand final wins when determining the greatness of a player IMO, plenty of great players never played in a flag side eg. Tony Lockett, Gary Ablett Snr, Nick Reiwoldt, Robert Harvey, Kevin Murray, Bernie Quinlan.
I could get on board with Hadley and Shattock, but no way Possum. Possum played a very different role. Zorko is no winger with no where near as penetrating a kick as Possum.


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dlanod

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I could get on board with Hadley and Shattock, but no way Possum. Possum played a very different role. Zorko is no winger with no where near as penetrating a kick as Possum.


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Notting also barely played by modern standards in that GF. Zorko's average game is substantially above that GF game.
 

Scubaveg

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Notting also barely played by modern standards in that GF. Zorko's average game is substantially above that GF game.
Granted, but picking the team in hindsight it’s easy. Going in, Possum is a winger. Zorko’s not. Possum had a huge penetrating kick, Zorko not so much. Possum was picked to play a role reflective of the role he played his entire career, Zorko’s not that player.


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BangyBangy

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I agree it’s hard to compare Zorko and Power. Power kicked over 50 goals as a small forward in 2000. My memories of how he actually got those goals is pretty vague, but I feel it was just by being a clever footballer and reading the play, rather than any X factor. If there was only one spot iin the side as a small forward, it would be very hard to pick between Zorko and Power. Both excellent footballers but bringing very different strengths to the team.
Power probably got those goals because the opposition were busy tagging / double tagging all our star forwards & mids ;)

Power, McRea, Hadley, Shattock are the only players that jump out at me as being replaceable by Zorks. Might be a tad unfair though, Zorko was playing in a team where he got a lot of attention, the players I listed above had so many stars around them. Makes comparisons tough.
 

Scubaveg

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Power probably got those goals because the opposition were busy tagging / double tagging all our star forwards & mids ;)

Power, McRea, Hadley, Shattock are the only players that jump out at me as being replaceable by Zorks. Might be a tad unfair though, Zorko was playing in a team where he got a lot of attention, the players I listed above had so many stars around them. Makes comparisons tough.
Can’t get on board with Zorko replacing Power. Just no way that happens.


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Brett C

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Lol, fair enough. I've got too many of his little dinky 10 to 15 metre nothing pass kicks in my head right now. I'm sure he did some good things too ;)
Power will also go down as one of the worst hand ballers of all time, almost looked like he forgot how to handball 95% of the time.
 

knaf

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“In his first official year as Captain, Dayne Zorko led the Lions to their first Finals appearance in 10 years and was prolific from both an individual and leadership perspective throughout the 2019 season.
Zorko polled votes in ten games to finish tenth overall in the 2019 Brownlow count, with 19 points overall and was named in the 40-man All Australian squad.”

2018 Murrany/Merrett Medal rap
Dayne Zorko's place in Brisbane's history has been rubber-stamped, with the Lions skipper claiming a fourth-straight Merrett-Murray Medal at the best-and-fairest count on Saturday night.”
“The only other Lion to enjoy four consecutive best and fairests was Kevin Murray, who won five straight from 1960-64. Murray, Roger Merrett and club chairman Andrew Wellington presented the medal to Zorko.”

...... Zorko’s just a loyal servant, nowhere near as good as Notting?
 

Dylan12

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I can't say I've ever been a huge fan of Dayne and I'm still not, mostly due to his antics on the field and inability to convert goals, which has been declining for some years IMO. The one quality I'll be forever thankful for though, is his loyalty, which goes a hell of a long way in my book and why I wouldn't put the likes of Rockliff, Hanley, Beams in Dayne's standing at the club.

That all being said, you can't ever fault his determination to come from Queensland State League footy and being overlooked in four drafts and still forge a stellar career that will see him end up being a 200+ game & goal career, captain of his club, multiple B&F winner etc.

As others have said, its pretty difficult to definitively say he would have outed the likes of Hart or McCrae (I don't see him outing Notting) in the GF period, but at the same time, I doubt someone as capable as Dayne also would have not made one of the sides. In terms of where he'll be regarded amongst the greats, again, it is hard comparing players across multiple teams and I don't think anyone would say for a minute he is up there in the Voss, Black, Brown, Akermanis, Lappin class, but I think he'd sit very comfortably with other selfless and underrated players of the ilk of Rich, White, Leppitsch, Pike, Ashcroft, Hart, McCrae, McGrath, Adcock, Johnson, Ashcroft, Charman, Merrett etc., who were all very important players at the club at varying times.

FWIW, I don't have the likes of Beams, Rockliff and Hanley in Zorko's class either.
 

Not a Psycho

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If you take it that the standard of the players in the broader AFL competition has remained consistent over the professional era. The only conclusion that can be formed about a player that is an All Australian (along with making the squad on a separate occasion) with a top 10 finish in the Brownlow and more importantly the AFLCA MVP is that they are better than the role players in any side in history. No matter how rose coloured the glasses.

From a club perspective, a captain in any era, four time best and fairest winner, multiple leading goalkicker and 200 game player is, if not necessarily among the greats, capable of playing in any lions side in history.
 

Sanchez365

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I can't say I've ever been a huge fan of Dayne and I'm still not, mostly due to his antics on the field and inability to convert goals, which has been declining for some years IMO. The one quality I'll be forever thankful for though, is his loyalty, which goes a hell of a long way in my book and why I wouldn't put the likes of Rockliff, Hanley, Beams in Dayne's standing at the club.

That all being said, you can't ever fault his determination to come from Queensland State League footy and being overlooked in four drafts and still forge a stellar career that will see him end up being a 200+ game & goal career, captain of his club, multiple B&F winner etc.

As others have said, its pretty difficult to definitively say he would have outed the likes of Hart or McCrae (I don't see him outing Notting) in the GF period, but at the same time, I doubt someone as capable as Dayne also would have not made one of the sides. In terms of where he'll be regarded amongst the greats, again, it is hard comparing players across multiple teams and I don't think anyone would say for a minute he is up there in the Voss, Black, Brown, Akermanis, Lappin class, but I think he'd sit very comfortably with other selfless and underrated players of the ilk of Rich, White, Leppitsch, Pike, Ashcroft, Hart, McCrae, McGrath, Adcock, Johnson, Ashcroft, Charman, Merrett etc., who were all very important players at the club at varying times.

FWIW, I don't have the likes of Beams, Rockliff and Hanley in Zorko's class either.
That's surprising. I would of definitely had Beams a step ahead of all those guys. Then probably Zorko = Hanley, both very flashy players that when they are on can do some amazing stuff but not reliable week in and out.

Rocky, well, he carried us for a long time, but he never had game breaking flair about him. He was (is?) more of your Tom Mitchell type.
 

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Jason mp

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That's surprising. I would of definitely had Beams a step ahead of all those guys. Then probably Zorko = Hanley, both very flashy players that when they are on can do some amazing stuff but not reliable week in and out.

Rocky, well, he carried us for a long time, but he never had game breaking flair about him. He was (is?) more of your Tom Mitchell type.
I wouldn't describe Zorks that way at all, anyone who has won 4 B&Fs, won an AA selection, AA squad selection and a 2 time leading club goal kicker I would say has demonstrated week in week out reliability.... Zorks has been consistently good to elite over the vast majority of his career IMO.

Agree with you on Hanley, he has been good but not at Zorks consistency level, Mitchell a very good comparison to Rocky too.
 

dlanod

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That's surprising. I would of definitely had Beams a step ahead of all those guys. Then probably Zorko = Hanley, both very flashy players that when they are on can do some amazing stuff but not reliable week in and out.

Rocky, well, he carried us for a long time, but he never had game breaking flair about him. He was (is?) more of your Tom Mitchell type.
Given the context of this thread and the beginning of Dylan's post ("The one quality I'll be forever thankful for though, is his loyalty, which goes a hell of a long way in my book and why I wouldn't put the likes of Rockliff, Hanley, Beams in Dayne's standing at the club."), I think it's fair - Beams definitely wouldn't be considered a great of the Lions. Hanley probably didn't have enough longevity, though his highlights were fantastic. Rocky is a tricky one. A bit like Aker in his divisiveness for off-field reasons, but Aker won a Brownlow (and three premierships) and was an all time player whereas Rocky obviously wasn't. I'd put Rocky in there, but I completely understand why someone else wouldn't.
 

Sanchez365

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I wouldn't describe Zorks that way at all, anyone who has won 4 B&Fs, won an AA selection, AA squad selection and a 2 time leading club goal kicker I would say has demonstrated week in week out reliability.... Zorks has been consistently good to elite over the vast majority of his career IMO.

Agree with you on Hanley, he has been good but not at Zorks consistency level, Mitchell a very good comparison to Rocky too.
True I've probably undersold Zorko's consistency a bit there so I'll cop that. What I guess I was trying to get at is that it hasn't felt like Zorko has really consistently put us on his back and dragged us to win games very often. (As opposed to a Beams or Neale).

There's defs a bit of looking down on his B&F wins due to us being pretty terrible at the time and Zorks being probably the mainstay midfielder during that time. It's also a little due to me misremembering when the 4 way tie was aswell.
 

Sanchez365

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Given the context of this thread and the beginning of Dylan's post ("The one quality I'll be forever thankful for though, is his loyalty, which goes a hell of a long way in my book and why I wouldn't put the likes of Rockliff, Hanley, Beams in Dayne's standing at the club."), I think it's fair - Beams definitely wouldn't be considered a great of the Lions. Hanley probably didn't have enough longevity, though his highlights were fantastic. Rocky is a tricky one. A bit like Aker in his divisiveness for off-field reasons, but Aker won a Brownlow (and three premierships) and was an all time player whereas Rocky obviously wasn't. I'd put Rocky in there, but I completely understand why someone else wouldn't.
Agreed if you are comparing their time specifically at the lions, then Zorko is always going to come out infront. I would argue that if you are comparing a player at their best though, it's fair to compare each of Hanley / Zorko / Rockliff, as their best was all in Lions colours. Beams imo was clearly a superior player, who showed his quality in the few years he was with us (doing it as the number 1 mid I stead of behind a Pendles/Sidebottom), but I, and I'm pretty sure he, wouldn't consider himself a Lions great.

I also think the Rocky story of coming through the rookie draft out of nowhere to be the player he was also helps his Lions credentials. As opposed to being drafted a star, he literally built his career and credentials at the lions. I think that concept plays alot into who we think of as Lions Greats.

For example, Danniher could go on to kick 100goals a season for the best 6-7 years, and I'm not sure I would consider him a Lions great even then (maybe).
 

MacMum

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The problem for Zorks in a vote like this one is that he has some very very hard acts to follow. Way above "normal" champs. Our premiership champs were exceptional..

...I consider him to be one of our all time champs, but gee, still behind the likes of Voss, Aker and Black etc.......which is so unfair for Dayne, but one of those things that just happens.........still very glad he is a Lion and captain to boot.
 

MacMum

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Agreed if you are comparing their time specifically at the lions, then Zorko is always going to come out infront. I would argue that if you are comparing a player at their best though, it's fair to compare each of Hanley / Zorko / Rockliff, as their best was all in Lions colours. Beams imo was clearly a superior player, who showed his quality in the few years he was with us (doing it as the number 1 mid I stead of behind a Pendles/Sidebottom), but I, and I'm pretty sure he, wouldn't consider himself a Lions great.

I also think the Rocky story of coming through the rookie draft out of nowhere to be the player he was also helps his Lions credentials. As opposed to being drafted a star, he literally built his career and credentials at the lions. I think that concept plays alot into who we think of as Lions Greats.

For example, Danniher could go on to kick 100goals a season for the best 6-7 years, and I'm not sure I would consider him a Lions great even then (maybe).

Completely off topic but seeing Rockliffs name reminded me...

Heard Ken Hinkley interviewed the other day....somehow the reality tv show "Im a celebrity....get me out of here" came up, was asked who best fit that show from his team......without missing a beat he said Tommy Rockliff, said he'd love to see him on the show, would enjoy watching it if he was. Was laughing as he said it.

I laughed too and couldn't agree more!:D:laughv1:
 

dlanod

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Agreed if you are comparing their time specifically at the lions, then Zorko is always going to come out infront.
I think you have to, given the context is "Lions greats".

I would argue that if you are comparing a player at their best though, it's fair to compare each of Hanley / Zorko / Rockliff, as their best was all in Lions colours. Beams imo was clearly a superior player, who showed his quality in the few years he was with us (doing it as the number 1 mid I stead of behind a Pendles/Sidebottom), but I, and I'm pretty sure he, wouldn't consider himself a Lions great.
I agree with this overall ranking BTW - my overall "midfield" list in response to a different question:

I'd have [Zorko] behind the Fab Four, Rocky, Beams, and about even with Power (which I wouldn't have thought until this exercise) as fairly similar players albeit with different strengths and weaknesses.
I also think the Rocky story of coming through the rookie draft out of nowhere to be the player he was also helps his Lions credentials. As opposed to being drafted a star, he literally built his career and credentials at the lions. I think that concept plays alot into who we think of as Lions Greats.
Rocky is one I am fine with going either way because his on-field efforts were obvious (despite the silly "no effect" narrative) but his reported effect on the club off-field and departure spoils that to a degree, and how one weighs the two parts would result in him falling in or out of the "Lions great" category.

For example, Danniher could go on to kick 100goals a season for the best 6-7 years, and I'm not sure I would consider him a Lions great even then (maybe).
If Daniher has his best years at the Lions over a significant period of time, I'd consider him a Lions great with no worries. Would you consider Lynch eligible to be a (Brisbane) Lions great?
 

Dylan12

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If Daniher has his best years at the Lions over a significant period of time, I'd consider him a Lions great with no worries. Would you consider Lynch eligible to be a (Brisbane) Lions great?
On this point and not that it really matters because this is just some light hearted discussion on a forum, but I think some parameters would assist such a discussion i.e. played X amount of games / was at the Lions for X amount of years / had X amount of achievements i.e. premiership medallions, personal awards (MVP / Brownlow / AA / Coleman / Club Awards such as B&F's etc.).

Its probably a funny one and I'll admit that I am a hypocrite in a lot of respects given my attitude towards two or more club players, particularly those that leave the Lions as opposed to incoming players that plied their trade elsewhere for a number of years and then carved out strong careers at the Lions. And even then, that is contradictory given, I rate Patfull and Power's careers at the club, but not Rockliff and Hanley's. As for Joe, it would be hard to argue if he kicks 250+ goals at the club, plays some finals, wins multiple leading goalkicker awards and potentially becomes the merged club's fourth leading goalkicker. I just hope he doesn't bomb like Fevola did in his two years at the club.
 

dlanod

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On this point and not that it really matters because this is just some light hearted discussion on a forum, but I think some parameters would assist such a discussion i.e. played X amount of games / was at the Lions for X amount of years / had X amount of achievements i.e. premiership medallions, personal awards (MVP / Brownlow / AA / Coleman / Club Awards such as B&F's etc.).
It's really hard because I reckon people's ideas of what constitutes a "Lions great" would be pretty different. I think most people wouldn't consider Neale one, but to me he's almost there. Conversely, most probably would include Lynch but to me he'd be marginal. And that's before even getting into the fuzzy stuff around guys like Rocky.

OTOH because it's basically all opinion and doesn't really matter, it both makes for good discussion and also great off-season material. :D
 

WhiteLionFeva

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It's really hard because I reckon people's ideas of what constitutes a "Lions great" would be pretty different. I think most people wouldn't consider Neale one, but to me he's almost there. Conversely, most probably would include Lynch but to me he'd be marginal. And that's before even getting into the fuzzy stuff around guys like Rocky.

OTOH because it's basically all opinion and doesn't really matter, it both makes for good discussion and also great off-season material. :D
I can't believe you don't regard Tristan Lynch as a club great.
 

Sanchez365

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It's really hard because I reckon people's ideas of what constitutes a "Lions great" would be pretty different. I think most people wouldn't consider Neale one, but to me he's almost there. Conversely, most probably would include Lynch but to me he'd be marginal. And that's before even getting into the fuzzy stuff around guys like Rocky.

OTOH because it's basically all opinion and doesn't really matter, it both makes for good discussion and also great off-season material. :D
The Lynch point is a good one. I didn't see Lynch play at either Fitzroy or the Bears so can't critique on his ability at those times, yet he was obviously an established player that had a proven track record by the time the Brisbane Lions began. That said, he's almost given the club legend status just by the fact he is the only (off the top of my head) player that played for all of Fitzroy, the Bears and the Lions.

My comment about Danniher tho is specifically around he is theoritically already a proven commodity. He comes to us as one of the best forwards of the competition and while he can improve that legacy with us, he didn't create that here. Neale is another that's in a similar boat, but like you I DO think that Neale will be remembered as a Lion great, as he has come here and really established himself outside the shadow of Fyfe. Also winning a brownlow for a club kinda automatically gives you that honor.

Danniher would have to do something very special to be consider a Brisbane great from here. Personally I hope he does!
 

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