Which 1990s players would be even better in the current game? And which would be worse?

[RichLeMonde]

Ablett Snr - went alright in the 1990s but would be even more damaging now - would start in centre for clearances then move to full forward like Dusty on steroids
Hird - see above, plus his elite aerobic capacity would make him even better in today's game at pushing forward on the rebound, without having to run into a bunch of set defenders
Dustin Fletcher - would be able to intercept, run and attack even more now than then. Would be one of the top 10 most valuable players in the league.
Craig Bradley - absolute endurance running machine, would be well-suited to the modern end-to-end basketball style
Brett Ratten - one of the first elite 2-way players. Was a tackling machine and clearance gun then, so would be valued even more highly now
Nicky Winmar - pace, elite finishing and kicking efficiency, good overhead. Would be impossible to matchup and would be one of the league leaders in score involvements.
Peter Matera - if coached strongly to apply tackling pressure would be a nightmare for opposition. Kicked 6 off a wing in a GF but would be even more damaging as a 2-way wingman now
Richo - was the best runner at the Tiges so would destroy teams now. The end-to-end style means that today Richmond kick quite a few of their goals running uncontested into the goal-square which would suit Richo's shocking kicking yips.
Kouta - would be like Cripps but even more athletic and would push forward and be like Jeremy Cameron (well, not quite as good a natural footballer and fwd)

Tony Lockett - lacks the running capacity, would be a liability against a rebounding full back
Justin Madden - too lumbering, doesn't offer enough around the ground
Greg Williams - all time great would be hurt a bit by modern game's pace. And he'd get rubbed out a lot
Darren Bewick - no defensive accountability, wouldn't get picked unless he changed his ways

Who you got?

 

[Pessimistic]

Swap Sammy Mitchell and diesel in their eras and they’d go ok.

 

[Liam Boy]

wayne carey was known for being an extremely hard worker at training, it's part of why they made him captain. with modern sports science advances, and the fact that he was only 193cm with many key forwards and defenders getting close to 2 metres these days, he might've become a big bodied midfielder instead of a key forward. he also might've been less of a sex pest in this era of scrutiny and awareness, but who knows

Greg Williams - all time great would be hurt a bit by modern game's pace. And he'd get rubbed out a lot

I think if you want to see how he'd go these days, just look at Ben Cunnington. You're right about the getting rubbed out part for sure but he's one of the great inside ball winners going around

 

[Cold Sober]

Diesel Williams would be a 6 time Brownlow winner in this non football brain required era.
Hird and Carey colud play til they were 50 and still star.

 

[RichLeMonde]

wayne carey was known for being an extremely hard worker at training, it's part of why they made him captain. with modern sports science advances, and the fact that he was only 193cm with many key forwards and defenders getting close to 2 metres these days, he might've become a big bodied midfielder instead of a key forward. he also might've been less of a sex pest in this era of scrutiny and awareness, but who knows



I think if you want to see how he'd go these days, just look at Ben Cunnington. You're right about the getting rubbed out part for sure but he's one of the great inside ball winners going around

Yeah good call on Cunnington. Diesel's elite hands, vision and ball-winning would make him still a gun.

I remember Jonathon Brown going into the midfield a few times and dominating. Carey had the skills on both sides of the body and at ground level to be even better in the middle. He'd probably rotate in and out like a Dusty. What a site that would have been.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Swap Sammy Mitchell and diesel in their eras and they’d go ok.

Yeah Diesel would still be a gun - unlike like a Lockett or Madden who might struggle to get picked. But would he be what he was - the best player in the league for much of his career?

 

[jackenny]

Lockett was terribly strong, but what’s clearly been forgotten in this thread was the man’s quickness. He wasn’t just a gorilla sitting in the goal-square; he was a raging rhinoceros barrelling through packs. Breaking packs is still a huge part of the game and he’s the best that’s ever been. He was also a genuine dead-eyed dick kicking for goal on top of being a contested marking beast (remember, he played in an era when chopping the arms was legal). Basically, he’d still be a star in today’s game, even with his limited chase (key forwards STILL don’t chase that hard, anyway - forward pressure is applied more from the midfield pushing up the ground and small forwards).

The ones who’d struggle the most from the older era would be the fringe players, IMO. Fringe players in the modern era crap all over the fringe players of the ‘90s. But if we’re talking about the stars? Like, say, Tony Modra? Tony Modra at his best would be like Chad Wingard in 2014 for Port. An absolute freak on his day pre-injury and arguably more consistent.

 

[Pessimistic]

Like others, Dunstall might have been stuffed by the need to run up and down, but while he excelled in space, I reckon he could have a adapted to take marks in close
Locket might have been stuffed by the current rules interpretations which dont allow you to run through defenders in your lead. both's goal tallies would have been down

 

[My Tilly]

Diesel Williams would be a 6 time Brownlow winner in this non football brain required era.

He would be averaging 40 disposals per game in today's era.

 

[Damon_3388]

Ablett Snr - went alright in the 1990s but would be even more damaging now - would start in centre for clearances then move to full forward like Dusty on steroids
Hird - see above, plus his elite aerobic capacity would make him even better in today's game at pushing forward on the rebound, without having to run into a bunch of set defenders
Dustin Fletcher - would be able to intercept, run and attack even more now than then. Would be one of the top 10 most valuable players in the league.
Craig Bradley - absolute endurance running machine, would be well-suited to the modern end-to-end basketball style
Brett Ratten - one of the first elite 2-way players. Was a tackling machine and clearance gun then, so would be valued even more highly now
Nicky Winmar - pace, elite finishing and kicking efficiency, good overhead. Would be impossible to matchup and would be one of the league leaders in score involvements.
Peter Matera - if coached strongly to apply tackling pressure would be a nightmare for opposition. Kicked 6 off a wing in a GF but would be even more damaging as a 2-way wingman now
Richo - was the best runner at the Tiges so would destroy teams now. The end-to-end style means that today Richmond kick quite a few of their goals running uncontested into the goal-square which would suit Richo's shocking kicking yips.
Kouta - would be like Cripps but even more athletic and would push forward and be like Jeremy Cameron (well, not quite as good a natural footballer and fwd)

Tony Lockett - lacks the running capacity, would be a liability against a rebounding full back
Justin Madden - too lumbering, doesn't offer enough around the ground
Greg Williams - all time great would be hurt a bit by modern game's pace. And he'd get rubbed out a lot
Darren Bewick - no defensive accountability, wouldn't get picked unless he changed his ways

Who you got?

Yeah Diesel would still be a gun - unlike like a Lockett or Madden who might struggle to get picked. But would he be what he was - the best player in the league for much of his career?

Madden had seasons where he averaged 14+ disposals (more kicks than handballs) and 4+ marks, and another 6 seasons where he averaged 12+ disposals (more kicks than marks) and 4+ marks, along with quality ruckwork, all in a much lower disposal, lower "expected" workrate era. Obviously disposals and marks aren't ruckwork, but he wasn't as lumbering or useless outside of contesting the tap as he may have looked or seemed.

 

[Damon_3388]

Like others, Dunstall might have been stuffed by the need to run up and down, but while he excelled in space, I reckon he could have a adapted to take marks in close
Locket might have been stuffed by the current rules interpretations which dont allow you to run through defenders in your lead. both's goal tallies would have been down

I think Dunstall (189cm) and Lockett (191cm) would have struggled playing the same role today due to their height as much as anything else, especially if they weren't carrying as much bulk.

People also seem to forget that the game was played very differently then, with far less sophisticated defensive structures, and far more emphasis on spamming forward entries to one forward target. Players don't kick 80-100+ goals today because of a lack of ability necessarily, but more so because smarter full-ground defenses and their own team's gameplans don't allow it.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think Dunstall (189cm) and Lockett (191cm) would have struggled playing the same role today due to their height as much as anything else, especially if they weren't carrying as much bulk.

People also seem to forget that the game was played very differently then, with far less sophisticated defensive structures, and far more emphasis on spamming forward entries to one forward target. Players don't kick 80-100+ goals today because of a lack of ability necessarily, but more so because smarter full-ground defenses and their own team's gameplans don't allow it.

Id back them to adapt and still be two of the better forwards

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Very few, if any and why players should only be judged against others in the era they played in.

There is the odd player with a reference point. Diesel Williams comes to mind here. Sam Mitchell was his modern day football clone and on that basis alone I think Williams would have been a star in the current and probably any era.

Anybody suggesting Gaz Sr would have been more damaging these days mustn't have seen him play. The guy kicked 1000 goals after starting out as a wingman. It is an unrealistic suggestion to make that he would have been comparatively better in 2020 than he was in 1990. It's just not logical.

Working back the other way, I cannot think of a single top end player in this era who wouldn't have been a superstar 30 years ago. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and more highly skilled than ever before. They are trained to within an inch of their life and on a like for like basis, there isn't a premiership side pre-2000 that would have gone near any of the top 8 sides today. Buddy Franklin would have been a 200 goal a year forward if put in a time machine and sent back 30 years. His sheer size, speed and aerobic ability combined with open forward lines would have made it look like he was playing a different game. Mick Martyn. Spud Frawley, Langford, Silvagni, etc were all magnificent players yet not one of them would have seen which way Franklin went. And the same goes for the Dusty's, Ablett Jr's, Fyfe's and Cripps' of this world. They would have made a mockery of the game 30 years ago. We have midfielders today with skills as good as we have ever seen and are bigger (not to mention faster, stronger and with greater aerobic capacity) than even the biggest of full-forwards back then.

But for all of that, the modern game is rubbish to watch by comparison.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Glen jakovich teamed up with McGovern would be a nightmare

 

[Bungeye]

Tony Liberatore would have had 400 tackles a season if they were playing today.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Very few, if any and why players should only be judged against others in the era they played in.

There is the odd player with a reference point. Diesel Williams comes to mind here. Sam Mitchell was his modern day football clone and on that basis alone I think Williams would have been a star in the current and probably any era.

Anybody suggesting Gaz Sr would have been more damaging these days mustn't have seen him play. The guy kicked 1000 goals after starting out as a wingman. It is an unrealistic suggestion to make that he would have been comparatively better in 2020 than he was in 1990. It's just not logical.

Working back the other way, I cannot think of a single top end player in this era who wouldn't have been a superstar 30 years ago. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and more highly skilled than ever before. They are trained to within an inch of their life and on a like for like basis, there isn't a premiership side pre-2000 that would have gone near any of the top 8 sides today. Buddy Franklin would have been a 200 goal a year forward if put in a time machine and sent back 30 years. His sheer size, speed and aerobic ability combined with open forward lines would have made it look like he was playing a different game. Mick Martyn. Spud Frawley, Langford, Silvagni, etc were all magnificent players yet not one of them would have seen which way Franklin went. And the same goes for the Dusty's, Ablett Jr's, Fyfe's and Cripps' of this world. They would have made a mockery of the game 30 years ago. We have midfielders today with skills as good as we have ever seen and are bigger (not to mention faster, stronger and with greater aerobic capacity) than even the biggest of full-forwards back then.

But for all of that, the modern game is rubbish to watch by comparison.

I saw Gaz Snr play - know what he could do. My point was that, in the modern game, kicking goals and creating a bit of space are about the hardest things you can do. Many consider Dusty the league’s MVP because of his abilities in those regards. Very very few players these days can break a defensive structure open. I actually think what Ablett could do in today’s super defensive game would be more valuable than him kicking 120+ goals a year in the early 1990s. Your point about fitness and professionalism is on the money - I’m imagining 90s players with modern training, diet etc, though. Otherwise they’d all struggle of course with the volume of running

 

[Borisdog]

Glen jakovich teamed up with McGovern would be a nightmare

Not for me it wouldn't

 

[Crowster01]

Darren Jarman- would find a player and kick the perfect ball to a key forward with out there arms getting chopped, score some special goals

 

[Damon_3388]

Darren Jarman- would find a player and kick the perfect ball to a key forward with out there arms getting chopped, score some special goals

I think due to his deep forward heroics at Adelaide, people forget what a skillful, creative half forward/mid type he was at Hawthorn.

 

[Damon_3388]

I feel like Daniel Bandy was a bit ahead of his time, and coaches didn't really know how to use his athleticism and running ability, and too often lumped him in as an undersized (in strength) ruckman, just because he was 2m tall.

 

[Damon_3388]

Anybody suggesting Gaz Sr would have been more damaging these days mustn't have seen him play. The guy kicked 1000 goals after starting out as a wingman. It is an unrealistic suggestion to make that he would have been comparatively better in 2020 than he was in 1990. It's just not logical.

I saw Gaz Snr play - know what he could do. My point was that, in the modern game, kicking goals and creating a bit of space are about the hardest things you can do. Many consider Dusty the league’s MVP because of his abilities in those regards. Very very few players these days can break a defensive structure open. I actually think what Ablett could do in today’s super defensive game would be more valuable than him kicking 120+ goals a year in the early 1990s. Your point about fitness and professionalism is on the money - I’m imagining 90s players with modern training, diet etc, though. Otherwise they’d all struggle of course with the volume of running.

Ablett Snr spent far more time as a forward in what should have been his athletic prime (ages 25-29) than people remember or have mythologised over time.



He wasn't averaging nearly 4 goals a game playing exclusively on the wing.

That being said, I feel like his combination of strength and athleticism would translate very well to today's footy, and he'd probably be a similar player to Danger or Dusty.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Ablett Snr spent far more time as a forward in what should have been his athletic prime (ages 25-29) than people remember or have mythologised over time.

View attachment 947955

He wasn't averaging nearly 4 goals a game playing exclusively on the wing.

That being said, I feel like his combination of strength and athleticism would translate very well to today's footy, and he'd probably be a similar player to Danger or Dusty.

Fair points and of course he’d have been a top player today but he wouldn’t have been comparatively better than he was 30 years ago.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Ablett Snr spent far more time as a forward in what should have been his athletic prime (ages 25-29) than people remember or have mythologised over time.

View attachment 947955

He wasn't averaging nearly 4 goals a game playing exclusively on the wing.

That being said, I feel like his combination of strength and athleticism would translate very well to today's footy, and he'd probably be a similar player to Danger or Dusty.

I don't think anyone has suggested that Ablett played exclusively on the wing at any stage. He played there early days at Geelong and a bit in the centre when either Diesel wasn't available or when Diesel left after 2 seasons. He played mostly as a half forward or pretty much anywhere from the centre forward. He still had the odd game in the centre up until his permanent switch to full forward in 1993. For instance, his 150th in 1992 against the Eagles yielded 36 touches and 5 goals playing in the middle.

Podgey / Lethality used to fall into the trap of seeing how many scoring shots Ablett had and then surmised that he must have played full forward a lot more than he's given credit for. One of the beauties of Ablett was is that he had 50+ metres on either foot, that's why he was having so many shots.

The majority of posters on here that saw Ablett play, only saw his later years as a heavier, stay at home full forward, kicking centuries in the h&a and then being cooked come finals time. In the period that you've posted above when he was a lot lighter, he was a much better footballer to watch. He was breathtaking. You just need to look at his State of Origin debut on a hff when he kicked 8 goals at Subiaco after only 9 games at Geelong (and 6 at Hawthorn 2 years prior) It took commentators half a game to even know who he was.

 

[jakkowiz]

Robert tulip flower

 

[Choogler]

Ablett Snr - went alright in the 1990s but would be even more damaging now - would start in centre for clearances then move to full forward like Dusty on steroids
Hird - see above, plus his elite aerobic capacity would make him even better in today's game at pushing forward on the rebound, without having to run into a bunch of set defenders
Dustin Fletcher - would be able to intercept, run and attack even more now than then. Would be one of the top 10 most valuable players in the league.
Craig Bradley - absolute endurance running machine, would be well-suited to the modern end-to-end basketball style
Brett Ratten - one of the first elite 2-way players. Was a tackling machine and clearance gun then, so would be valued even more highly now
Nicky Winmar - pace, elite finishing and kicking efficiency, good overhead. Would be impossible to matchup and would be one of the league leaders in score involvements.
Peter Matera - if coached strongly to apply tackling pressure would be a nightmare for opposition. Kicked 6 off a wing in a GF but would be even more damaging as a 2-way wingman now
Richo - was the best runner at the Tiges so would destroy teams now. The end-to-end style means that today Richmond kick quite a few of their goals running uncontested into the goal-square which would suit Richo's shocking kicking yips.
Kouta - would be like Cripps but even more athletic and would push forward and be like Jeremy Cameron (well, not quite as good a natural footballer and fwd)

Tony Lockett - lacks the running capacity, would be a liability against a rebounding full back
Justin Madden - too lumbering, doesn't offer enough around the ground
Greg Williams - all time great would be hurt a bit by modern game's pace. And he'd get rubbed out a lot
Darren Bewick - no defensive accountability, wouldn't get picked unless he changed his ways

Who you got?

Of the Eagles I've seen,
Jakovich (particularly pre-ACL injury) - would be a great intercept marker plus still a great one on one defender.
Ben Cousins - unbelievable aerobic capacity
Chris Lewis - incredibly skilled and brilliant player who would not have to endure the constant vilification to which opposition players subjected him to distract him from his game, would find life a lot easier on-field.
Dean Kemp - balanced, skilled, smart
Brett Heady - could compete in the air, smart player, could imagine him getting a lot of goals getting in behind defences
Chris Mainwaring - Gaff like, no need to say any more

Disagree about Williams... Sam Mitchell proved football nous and skills compensate for lack of pace.
Agree with some comments about Lockett but he would still get a game and kick goals but not as many. He was unbelievably quick off the mark and on the lead, difficult to beat one on one and, the big one, he very rarely missed.