Play Nice Which club has the biggest supporter base? Collingwood, Richmond or West Coast?

[Bill Haverchuck]

In Vic i reckon
Collingwood
Essendon
Carl-Rich pretty close with carl still possibly ahead
Hawks
Cats
Saints
Melb (was tempted to place ahead of saints)
WB
North

Just my uninformed opinion..
Can't comment on interstate , though logically west coast ahead of crows?

 

[What else we can do]

There’s no perfect method. All have varying limitations:

Attendances - Subject to on field success, time slots and stadium capacity

Membership - Subject to on-field success

TV Ratings - Subject to time slots and total number of games via FTA

Social Media - Subject to on field success

Google Hits - Subject to on field success and other factors like having a women’s team which drives hits in the off season Vs clubs that don’t

SuperCoach / Dreamteam - Possibly most reliable as these are national competitions less subject to on field fortunes

Morgan Polls etc - Subject to on field success and doesn’t discount for one team town ‘support’

I’ve always thought those SuperCoach team breakdowns were as good as any as it delivers the following advantages:

- Large nationally based survey (competition) that captures full national support which isn’t captured in membership figures because clubs can’t sell seats for interstate games in SA, WA and possibly NSW (SCG?)

Total social media numbers are also more useful than some others as not limited by capacity but positively influenced by on field success. NB: Richmond’s numbers swelled post 2017 premiership

I have some figures given to me re Google hits. These are unique hits for each of the clubs listed since 2004.
Collingwood 543,000
Carlton 471,000
Essendon 458,000
Hawthorn 406,000
Richmond 391,000
West Coast 389,000
I'm surprised that Hawthorn is above Richmond and West Coast.

 

[Engimal v3]

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St Kilda has had some crazy growth in the past 5 years, without a lot of on-field success.

 

[AstuteTiger]

18 thousand at the game, only 63 thousand viewers in Melbourne watching (less viewers than the Qclash) and they somehow have 100k members. Richmond has got to be one of the most deceptive clubs in the world. They look like a big club, but from last week, they're actually a much smaller club then they lead on.

First welcome to big footy, that's a bit of a whack but hey you just gotta love freedom of speech but with that comes having some form of knowledge when posting, and I dare say you're way off base with your assertion on Richmond.

First, you mention pay-TV viewers not everyone has Foxtel, kayo etc secondly, it wasn't even on fox footy 504 that was the bulldogs V Port clash. But you somehow made a connection between 63K viewers and our membership numbers, seriously, you can't make this s**t up.

So from last week, we did look like a big club (happy to hear) but now based on that low crowd at marvel they're actually a smaller club right.

Let's start shall we, bad crowds happen and I don't need to go into all the reasons why people decide not to go to particular games.

Now I mention pies as the thread title states 3 clubs. Also, as I live in Vic, Ill comment on our neighbouring suburb Collingwood.

Pies played North at marvel a few weeks back and there was 22K. North averaging about 14K as the home team, so there were about 8K pies as the away team.

Pies played GC in RD 7 at the G on a fine day, perfect timeslot for families 1.45pm and the attendance was 24K, so if that game was at marvel the attendance would've been under 20K, but here you're solely having pot shots at Richmond.

2016, pies played GC at Marvel and the attendance was 17K, also in 2016 pies played Freo at the G and the attendance was 20K, based on your theory they would be a smaller club. But imo that’s just a ludicrous assertion.

All clubs can have these low type attendances, so before you go throwing stones look in your own backyard.

Btw that was Richmond’s lowest attendance in 17 years. Maybe read this article, https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...fans-away-from-the-footy-20210517-p57soq.html to get a sense of what is happening in Melbourne with crowds not only for my own team who atm still top the home and away attendances at RD9, but for all clubs especially in Melbourne.

What’s your definition of the biggest club? I’d say these are the 4 main elements everything else is circumstantial> Attendances, Membership, Revenue & Social Media. We are either top or 2nd in most of these key categories.

Just on social media, Richmond and Collingwood are the only 2 clubs with social media numbers surpassing 750,000 on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, Twitter and YouTube
Of course, our success has culminated in increasing numbers and the club is making the most of it, especially with the 2 most popular platforms ATM being Insta and Tiktok. Engagement is No 1, having previously been on Richmond’s memberships task force, social media likes, comments pretty much all forms of engagement is paramount. FB, Insta and TikTok are the main for engagement.

We do have massive support in Victoria, I say the biggest and I mean in terms of crowds, those attending games in big games/finals because you can’t count everyone who sits on the couch and says I support tiges or pies or bombers etc we can only go by raw numbers.

For example, When Richmond played GWS in the 2017 prelim, attendance was almost (95K). We pretty much sold out the stadium on our own.

Collingwood has played GWS twice in finals and couldn't top 90K, let alone 80K
Prelim final Pies V GWS 2019 (77,828) and in 2018 SF Pies V GWS (72,504).

We also played the pies in the 2018 PF and outnumbered them in the crowd, that's not even debatable.

How about against your mob, Richmond 77K V Lions at the G (2019) is the Biggest home and away attendance against an interstate side.

Richmond is the only club to have finals attendances surpassing 90,000 in the last 10 finals straight at the MCG. That includes playing GWS "no support" (95K) and North "least supported of the VIC clubs" in 2015 EF (90,186) on a Sunday arvo
Just as a comparison North V Essendon (EF) just a year prior 2014 on a Sat night got 78,559

I think ill leave it there I'm pretty sure you get my drift that big clubs aren't defined on a weekend low drawing game at marvel.

 

[Shannon M]

I wouldn't pay much attention to google hits or searches since many people across the country supported Essendon or Carlton because their dad did, and dad did because he was a glory hunter back in the 70's or 80's. These are people who picked teams not on geographical boundaries but because they were winning.

Not to mention that the VFL was the premier competition in the country with VFL clubs having an almost 100 year head start on the likes of West Coast and Adelaide.

What West Coast has done in 35 years is remarkable. West Coast (and interstate teams) are tied to its geography so will never be a Dallas Cowboys or Manchester United (Collingwood or Richmond not tied to geography have a 100 year head start too), but if you look at revenue generated per member there's no comparison to a Collingwood or Richmond.

Give it a few more decades and West Coast will probably not be tied to geography you will get kids in Victoria growing up as West Coast fans.

 

[Shannon M]

What’s your definition of the biggest club? I’d say these are the 4 main elements everything else is circumstantial> Attendances, Membership, Revenue & Social Media. We are either top or 2nd in most of these key categories.

Just on social media, Richmond and Collingwood are the only 2 clubs with social media numbers surpassing 750,000 on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, Twitter and YouTube

Don't worry about social media anyone can click a subscribe or like button. Anyone with even the remotest of a passing interest in Collingwood or Richmond will hit subscribe. Richmond and Collingwood have had a 100 year head start in creating generational supporters.

What you have to look at are number of members and what they spend. West Coast members don't think twice about spending $700 or $1000 per year on a seat. What's the typical Richmond member buying a GA membership, a membership for the poodle? And if you don't pay someone on the waiting list will. I think West Coast could fill a 100k seat Optus Stadium especially if tickets were as cheap as in Melbourne.

Richmond couldn't get more than 18k to one of the best stadiums in the country for spectator comfort and accessibility. That's a fair weathered fan base.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I wouldn't pay much attention to google hits or searches since many people across the country supported Essendon or Carlton because their dad did, and dad did because he was a glory hunter back in the 70's or 80's. These are people who picked teams not on geographical boundaries but because they were winning.

Not to mention that the VFL was the premier competition in the country with VFL clubs having an almost 100 year head start on the likes of West Coast and Adelaide.

What West Coast has done in 35 years is remarkable. West Coast (and interstate teams) are tied to its geography so will never be a Dallas Cowboys or Manchester United (Collingwood or Richmond not tied to geography have a 100 year head start too), but if you look at revenue generated per member there's no comparison to a Collingwood or Richmond.

Give it a few more decades and West Coast will probably not be tied to geography you will get kids in Victoria growing up as West Coast fans.

You make some valid points. Agree on Google hits, geez talking about grasping at straws. Just on west coast. My brother in law and his best mate who live in Melbourne follow the eagles and I remember asking him why do you follow the eagles you're a Melburnian and he just said growing up at school they won the flag and he just started supporting them. Eagles on a good day here can attract upwards of 5K which is very impressive.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Don't worry about social media anyone can click a subscribe or like button. Anyone with even the remotest of a passing interest in Collingwood or Richmond will hit subscribe. Richmond and Collingwood have had a 100 year head start in creating generational supporters.

What you have to look at are number of members and what they spend. West Coast members don't think twice about spending $700 or $1000 per year on a seat. What's the typical Richmond member buying a GA membership, a membership for the poodle? And if you don't pay someone on the waiting list will. I think West Coast could fill a 100k seat Optus Stadium especially if tickets were as cheap as in Melbourne.

Richmond couldn't get more than 18k to one of the best stadiums in the country for spectator comfort and accessibility. That's a fair weathered fan base.

Social Media is one of 4 key elements which I mentioned.

Come on pets aren't counted for any clubs tallies. But west coasts waiting in the wings $55 membership is.
I don't think anyone is questioning how big eagles are in Perth, they are just not bigger than pies, tiges, bombers when it comes to support around Australia.
35 years ain't enough time to catch the vic clubs Oz wide but who knows in the next 50 years, We have too much of a head start on them.

Nah not fair-weathered at all, the beauty of supporters is they can attend whatever games they please, in Vic so much to do. But with 17 games the choice is wide as to what games to attend more than others. Unless you live here you won't truly understand the meaning. I pretty much explained in my novel post to Forza on our numbers.

On membership money terms, of course, eagles make the most, I mean they are in a two-team state with west coast being the biggest, they can charge what they want. Demand far outweighs supply.
Well, as our home ground has a capacity of 100K of course not all buy reserve seat memberships but in saying that the MCG do have restrictions on how many bays a club can have. By memory, Richmond have upwards of 25K reserve seat holders, some pay $500, others over $1,000+. I pay more than that and i don't think twice about it.

 

[telsor]

As Ross Oakley said in the article - “ I think there would have always been some form of Australian football but not in the form that was in and not a VFL the way it was,"


If it wasn’t for Brisbane and West Coast, broke clubs like yours may not of made the cut. You’re welcome.

Things would have been different? Sure.

But that doesn't mean the VFL would have died without the pittance you paid for a share of the assets of the VFL.

 

[freddy mercury]

Dunno, but how good is it watching Collingwood implode?

 

[Papa G]

You make some valid points. Agree on Google hits, geez talking about grasping at straws. Just on west coast. My brother in law and his best mate who live in Melbourne follow the eagles and I remember asking him why do you follow the eagles you're a Melburnian and he just said growing up at school they won the flag and he just started supporting them. Eagles on a good day here can attract upwards of 5K which is very impressive.

West Coast "national" presence gets underplayed a fair bit also compared to the big VFL era teams, especially in Melbourne. There's a pretty big WA dispora in Melbourne. They seem to have a bit of a hard on for the city. Perhaps they are attracted to its grungy drabness and buildings erected prior to 1960, I don't know, but there are plenty of West Coast fans in Bleaktown.

 

[dave10]

West Coast "national" presence gets underplayed a fair bit also compared to the big VFL era teams, especially in Melbourne. There's a pretty big WA dispora in Melbourne. They seem to have a bit of a hard on for the city. Perhaps they are attracted to its grungy drabness and buildings erected prior to 1960, I don't know, but there are plenty of West Coast fans in Bleaktown.

I think you’re right. I’d say the reason has more to do with fact that some industries are largely in Melbourne or Sydney necessitating travel for career purposes. West Coast do have a large following in Victoria. It’s probably slightly smaller than Adelaide’s and quite a bit less than Brisbane / Swans in my opinion.

 

[Gavin Excell]

West Coast "national" presence gets underplayed a fair bit also compared to the big VFL era teams, especially in Melbourne. There's a pretty big WA dispora in Melbourne. They seem to have a bit of a hard on for the city. Perhaps they are attracted to its grungy drabness and buildings erected prior to 1960, I don't know, but there are plenty of West Coast fans in Bleaktown.

Heard it all now
An Adelaide person having a crack at Melbourne for being drab

 

[Papa G]

I think you’re right. I’d say the reason has more to do with fact that some industries are largely in Melbourne or Sydney necessitating travel for career purposes. West Coast do have a large following in Victoria. It’s probably slightly smaller than Adelaide’s and quite a bit less than Brisbane / Swans in my opinion.

Adelaide fans, due to proximity and a large wealthy boomer fanbase tend to travel a lot more, so I'm not sure that the Crows crowds in Melbourne are reflective of a large Melbourne base.

 

[HTT]

Dunno, but how good is it watching Collingwood implode?

On a forum full of disagreement, this is universally agreeable

 

[What else we can do]

You make some valid points. Agree on Google hits, geez talking about grasping at straws. Just on west coast. My brother in law and his best mate who live in Melbourne follow the eagles and I remember asking him why do you follow the eagles you're a Melburnian and he just said growing up at school they won the flag and he just started supporting them. Eagles on a good day here can attract upwards of 5K which is very impressive.

I wouldn't pay much attention to google hits or searches since many people across the country supported Essendon or Carlton because their dad did, and dad did because he was a glory hunter back in the 70's or 80's. These are people who picked teams not on geographical boundaries but because they were winning.

Not to mention that the VFL was the premier competition in the country with VFL clubs having an almost 100 year head start on the likes of West Coast and Adelaide.

What West Coast has done in 35 years is remarkable. West Coast (and interstate teams) are tied to its geography so will never be a Dallas Cowboys or Manchester United (Collingwood or Richmond not tied to geography have a 100 year head start too), but if you look at revenue generated per member there's no comparison to a Collingwood or Richmond.

Give it a few more decades and West Coast will probably not be tied to geography you will get kids in Victoria growing up as West Coast fans.

I don't think you understand these are unique google hits out of millions of searches they are the unique id's. It is a very valid measure everyone uses google. Social media is clutching at straws the same people have multiple accounts across all platforms. It's ridiculous to add all platforms and come up with a total number for supporter bases.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I don't think you understand these are unique google hits out of millions of searches they are the unique id's. It is a very valid measure everyone uses google. Social media is clutching at straws the same people have multiple accounts across all platforms. It's ridiculous to add all platforms and come up with a total number for supporter bases.

When it comes to my club Richmond i don't use google I know the URL or it's saved on my PC. Like I said I wouldn't pay too much attention to google hits.
But each to their own I guess.

Agree no doubt some have multiple accounts but on 600K, 700K, or 800K+ you're assuming it's tipped over for multiple accounts that's just wishful thinking.
Unless you can show otherwise, totalling social media account numbers are as totalled.

No doubt there are people who buy multiple memberships but unless you can provide the actual numbers, the tally that clubs report are as stated.

 

[What else we can do]

When it comes to my club Richmond i don't use google I know the URL or it's saved on my PC. Like I said I wouldn't pay too much attention to google hits.
But each to their own I guess.

Agree no doubt some have multiple accounts but on 600K, 700K, or 800K+ you're assuming it's tipped over for multiple accounts that's just fanciful thinking.
Unless you can show otherwise, totalling social media account numbers are as totalled.

No doubt there are people who buy multiple memberships but unless you can provide the actual numbers, the tally that clubs report are as is.

Your 100 percent correct on instagram after google and youtube I have been told it is currently the most popular used platform with 18 to 34 year olds.
1. Richmond
2. Collingwood
3. WCE
4. Carlton

 

[Hawkk]

Your 100 percent correct on instagram after google and youtube I have been told it is currently the most popular used platform with 18 to 34 year olds.
1. Richmond
2. Collingwood
3. WCE
4. Carlton

Who are 5. And 6?

I presume Essendon, Hawthorn or Adelaide?

Edit...

1. Richmond 275,000
2. Collingwood 261,000
3. West Coast 215,000
4. Carlton 212,000
5. Essendon 210,000
6. Hawthorn 200,000
7. Geelong 197,000

And then a gap of 50,000 to the next biggest (Adelaide)

That would be your top 6 or 7 for raw support.

 

[What else we can do]

Who are 5. And 6?

I presume Essendon, Hawthorn or Adelaide?

Edit...

1. Richmond 275,000
2. Collingwood 261,000
3. West Coast 215,000
4. Carlton 212,000
5. Essendon 210,000
6. Hawthorn 200,000
7. Geelong 197,000

And then a gap of 50,000 to the next biggest (Adelaide)

That would be your top 6 or 7 for raw support.

I have not been told the rest but cheers

 

[dave10]

Your 100 percent correct on instagram after google and youtube I have been told it is currently the most popular used platform with 18 to 34 year olds.
1. Richmond
2. Collingwood
3. WCE
4. Carlton

The limitation of these however as they are more measures of levels of current ‘engagement’ and this adds a layer of uncertainty to using purely as measures of support.

Take Instagram for example, Richmond was lagging comfortably behind Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon UNTIL they won the 2017 premiership. Then their Instagram followers instantly s**t up nearly 30%. Ditto its Facebook ‘followers’. This also happened to a much lesser extent to Collingwood after it made the GF in 2019.

Below are the Google Trends trackers over time for these clubs, and Collingwood (last 5 years). You can see how success dramatically influences these stats for Richmond (and Collingwood). It’s reasonable to argue Essendon’s google trends baseline is stronger than both Carlton and Richmond but behind Collingwood after removing success driven spikes. This also supports the view that Essendon has wider overall support which was / is reflected in its total Facebook followers which they’ve led these clubs for many years reflecting this Stringer total support..

 

[dave10]

And the Google Trends data for the 4 clubs since 2004.

Collingwood > Essendon > Carlton > Richmond
(premierships aside - baseline only)

 

[Forward Press]

What West Coast has done in 35 years is remarkable. West Coast (and interstate teams) are tied to its geography so will never be a Dallas Cowboys or Manchester United (Collingwood or Richmond not tied to geography have a 100 year head start too), but if you look at revenue generated per member there's no comparison to a Collingwood or Richmond.

Give it a few more decades and West Coast will probably not be tied to geography you will get kids in Victoria growing up as West Coast fans.

A funny story when Jarrod Brander was drafted was that his parents were North fans and he decided to support West Coast to 'troll' them, particularly after a game in Tassie where Dean Cox singlehandedly won it for us. It must be exceedingly rare for us to draft a Victorian kid that supports West Coast.

However I don't think we will ever break free of our geographical boundary as being the team of Western Australia is our defining trait.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

A funny story when Jarrod Brander was drafted was that his parents were North fans and he decided to support West Coast to 'troll' them, particularly after a game in Tassie where Dean Cox singlehandedly won it for us. It must be exceedingly rare for us to draft a Victorian kid that supports West Coast.

However I don't think we will ever break free of our geographical boundary as being the team of Western Australia is our defining trait.

Most clubs really have their boundary. People talk about Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond etc and their big following nationally but I am not sure where they get this info from.
Before the Eagles joined the VFL most WA people barracked for a VFL club, what percentage of those people dumped their VFL alliance to follow the WCE? I would say upwards of 80% as a guess. That national following those VFL clubs had in WA on that day was absoloutely smashed to the ground the day the Eagles joined. The vast majority that would of stayed with their VFL club would of been Victorians living in WA. This would of applied in Adelaide also.

So from that point onwards growth outside their own boundaries relied solely on success in the national league to build support in other states and also movement of families to other states.
I am not sure how anyone could say that VFL clubs have recruited more intertstate members than NOn Vic clubs have over that journey and hence when people say those VFL clubs have far more supporters nationally I think thats a bit of bullshit and just a nice story to hang on to.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

West Coast really are the reformers of the competition. In terms of realising the AFL's ambition to be a true national competition, the Eagles represent the light on the hill.

"We have a great objective – the light on the hill – which we aim to reach by working the betterment of mankind .... a movement bringing something better to the people"

Ben Chifley

1st Non-Victorian team to win an AFL game
1st Non-Victorian team to make finals
1st Non-Victorian team to win a final
1st Non-Victorian team to host a final outside Victoria
1st Non-Victorian team to finish top of the ladder
1st Non-Victorian team to make a grand final
1st Non-Victorian team to win a premiership
1st Non-Victorian team to top Club membership ladder

Sydney don't count for the first 2?