Which Flanker Is The Messiah?

Who will be an A Grade Inside Mid?

  • Rozee

    Votes: 12 21.8%
  • Butters

    Votes: 43 78.2%
  • Duursma

    Votes: 6 10.9%
  • Burton

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Bergman

    Votes: 19 34.5%
  • Jones

    Votes: 11 20.0%
  • Sinn

    Votes: 21 38.2%
  • J.Burgoyne

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Byrne-Jones

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Georgiades

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Fantasia

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Amon

    Votes: 5 9.1%
  • Houston

    Votes: 5 9.1%

  • Total voters
    55

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shewho

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You lost me here.

R James outside? Lol wut.
P Burgoyne was a mid from day 1.
Buckley was a 16/17 year old against men but still a born mid.

Yes, we need to find the next '06 S Burgoyne, but these references are all wrong.

If anything we've clearly seen it demonstrated over time that this expecting a flanker to convert into a mid has really failed to work. That natural mid ability has been lacking and a huge weakness of ours for years.

We need Duursma and Rozee IMO to become gun centre square mids to avoid any drop away.
Roger James was a wingman at Norwood and in his early years at Port- almost got delisted before his move to the guts. P.Burgoyne definitely played forward pocket early on. Buckley played wing for a long time before moving inside. I’ll defend all of these and add R.Gray.
 

shewho

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Is Georgiades supposed to be in fhe centre? I just see it as a list of who is the messiah who is supposed to deliver us a flag. If Gray cant do it, none of the above are likely to do any better.
Yes, I meant as an inside mid. There is a school of thought that Mitch can run through the guts.
 

Holden Hillbilly

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2026 – Percy Burgoyne
 

TeeKray

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When I read stuff like this it makes me think the points system is just like the classic bigfooty trade of throwing 7 fringe players at Chris Judd

I mean, yeah, that's been obvious for a long time now.

The gold standard example is Ugle-Hagan. The Bulldogs paid the hefty price of picks 29, 33, 41, 42, 52 and 54 to secure him as pick 1. What reaction do you think you'd get if you offered picks 29, 33, 41, 42, 52 and 54 for pick 1 during trade week?
 

Andre

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I mean, yeah, that's been obvious for a long time now.

The gold standard example is Ugle-Hagan. The Bulldogs paid the hefty price of picks 29, 33, 41, 42, 52 and 54 to secure him as pick 1. What reaction do you think you'd get if you offered picks 29, 33, 41, 42, 52 and 54 for pick 1 during trade week?
The points system would be fine if a) They pissed off draft picks altogether and clubs got a bunch of points based on finishing position and b) rather than a player draft it'd be a player auction, with clubs using their points to bid on players. So in this case anyone could have bid their points on Ugle-Hagan, the Bulldogs just would have gotten a 25% discount (I.e. if they'd bid 2000 points and won, only 1500 would have come off their points to use on other players).

As usual in almost anything the AFL does they have arse it, so we've now got a system that is neither draft picks or points, but some sort of hybrid with numerous flaws due to not moving all the way.
 

Jonts

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The points system would be fine if a) They pissed off draft picks altogether and clubs got a bunch of points based on finishing position and b) rather than a player draft it'd be a player auction, with clubs using their points to bid on players. So in this case anyone could have bid their points on Ugle-Hagan, the Bulldogs just would have gotten a 25% discount (I.e. if they'd bid 2000 points and won, only 1500 would have come off their points to use on other players).

As usual in almost anything the AFL does they have arse it, so we've now got a system that is neither draft picks or points, but some sort of hybrid with numerous flaws due to not moving all the way.
This idea has been floating for a couple of years and I'm a huge fan

It would have to be draft pick position auction rather than a player auction though
 

Andre

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This idea has been floating for a couple of years and I'm a huge fan

It would have to be draft pick position auction rather than a player auction though
I don't think a draft pick auction works. How does Father-Son, academies fit with that (unless they go)? Player auction, but just flip the finishing order for which club nominates the next player (E.g. this year players would have been nominated in order by Collingwood, North, Gold Coast etc.). Doesn't matter if the club nominating wins the auction or not, the next club puts up the next player to bid on. Add in clubs can trade points instead of draft picks (including between years) and it fixes most of the problems with the current issues with bidding and trading (the old a player is worth pick 15, club has picks 10 and 20, the other demands 10, you offer 20 and you waste a week arguing or trying to get other picks involved, points and it's easier to reach a middle ground).
 

Jonts

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I don't think a draft pick auction works. How does Father-Son, academies fit with that (unless they go)? Player auction, but just flip the finishing order for which club nominates the next player (E.g. this year players would have been nominated in order by Collingwood, North, Gold Coast etc.). Doesn't matter if the club nominating wins the auction or not, the next club puts up the next player to bid on. Add in clubs can trade points instead of draft picks (including between years) and it fixes most of the problems with the current issues with bidding and trading (the old a player is worth pick 15, club has picks 10 and 20, the other demands 10, you offer 20 and you waste a week arguing or trying to get other picks involved, points and it's easier to reach a middle ground).
They have to pay whatever the highest bid is -20% in points value

If they don't do it they go into deficit next year
 

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shewho

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That draft auction idea won’t work. Clubs that finish at the top end of the table will bid all their points on the top selections. They will want quality over quantity. This means the bottom sides will have to use a disproportionate amount of points on the first few picks, giving up their second and third round picks and slowing their rebuild. This year, North would have had to use almost all their points on one player.

The reason this system won’t work is because it achieves the opposite of what the draft was intended to do.
 

TeeKray

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Father/son picks should just be round equivalent - ie if the player gets taken at pick 5 then you are required to give up either a present or future first round pick. That is the simplest and fairest way.
 

Enviable Tradition

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The simpler solution is to just edit the points formula.

It was a good.model to get it started based on game splayed by certain picks etc. but now they have years worth of real world value of the picks to show that the market values the higher picks higher than their value and lower picks lowes than their value (hence the one sided trades in favour of high picks from a points perspective).

All they need.to do is crunch the real world data to revalue the draft pick points.
 

Shaucob_Burjan

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You lost me here.

R James outside? Lol wut.
P Burgoyne was a mid from day 1.
Buckley was a 16/17 year old against men but still a born mid.

Yes, we need to find the next '06 S Burgoyne, but these references are all wrong.

If anything we've clearly seen it demonstrated over time that this expecting a flanker to convert into a mid has really failed to work. That natural mid ability has been lacking and a huge weakness of ours for years.

We need Duursma and Rozee IMO to become gun centre square mids to avoid any drop away.

I am iffy counting Shaun Burgoyne too, his AA year was half a year of playing inside mid and after that he basically never figured out how to deal with the tag and that combined with injury risk put him back at half back.
 

Shaucob_Burjan

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Also did any of Melbourne or the Bulldogs plethora of inside mids start in another position?

The best example I can think of for us is Boak who went from wing to inside mid but that took him lifting his standards to Olympic level preparation to pull that off.
 

JUSTWORK

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Also did any of Melbourne or the Bulldogs plethora of inside mids start in another position?

The best example I can think of for us is Boak who went from wing to inside mid but that took him lifting his standards to Olympic level preparation to pull that off.
Didn’t Perracca start as a half forward flanker ?
 

Jonts

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That draft auction idea won’t work. Clubs that finish at the top end of the table will bid all their points on the top selections. They will want quality over quantity. This means the bottom sides will have to use a disproportionate amount of points on the first few picks, giving up their second and third round picks and slowing their rebuild. This year, North would have had to use almost all their points on one player.

The reason this system won’t work is because it achieves the opposite of what the draft was intended to do.
It could definitely work
May need some adjustment to the points given per position

The "everyone will want a top 10 pick" argument breaks down when you create more points (or currency) for the bottom selections. Help you could even do it that the 1st and/or 2nd round is separate from the remaining draft to stop club's selling the equvilant of bulk 3rd rounders to get up the board (ala the bullshit now we had with the daicos ect bids )
 

Andre

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That draft auction idea won’t work. Clubs that finish at the top end of the table will bid all their points on the top selections. They will want quality over quantity. This means the bottom sides will have to use a disproportionate amount of points on the first few picks, giving up their second and third round picks and slowing their rebuild. This year, North would have had to use almost all their points on one player.

The reason this system won’t work is because it achieves the opposite of what the draft was intended to do.
Nah, as a starting basis clubs would get points based on their ladder positions draft pick point value.
E.g. North would have gotten 3000 (round 1) + 948 (round 2) + 483 (round 3) + 207 (round 4) + 9 (round 5) for a total of 4647 points
Where as Melbourne at the other end would have gotten 985 (round 1) + 502 (round 2) + 220 (round 3) + 19 (round 4) for a total of 1726 points.

If Melbourne had thrown everything they had at JHF this year North still could have out bid them and had plenty to pick up quality players in the second and third round. What it does make harder is teams finishing near the top, like the Bulldogs, get Father-Son and Academy picks, as even with the 25% discount, there's a good chance a bottom 4 side would have outbid them for Darcy. Which is fine, as the Bulldogs discount would have either forced the other side to pay a premium or the Bulldogs pay closer to his real value.