Mystery Which Mystery Would You Most Like to See Solved?

[emuboy]

Tamam shud and of course, Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon

This case drives me crazy. At face value it looks like a cautionary tale about the dangers that can face European tourists who venture to out of the way places in the Americas, Africa, Asia or Australia and in many ways it is, but what happened is just flat out weird and totally inexplicable eight years later. For example:

1. The girls were booked to hike the same trail the next day with a professional guide as part of a tourist group.
2. In some ways the girls were well prepared for their hike but in some ways woefully underprepared. For example they took toilet paper, but despite the warm and humid weather prone to change neither girl had a hat and they had just one small bottle of water between them and no food.
3. The girls took the dog of the host family with them, but the dog returned home on his own later that evening unharmed.
4. The timeframe of the days events are wildly inconsistent from witness statements.
5. Photographs taken by the girls in the early part of the hike are close up, some selfies and they look happy and relaxed. However this abruptly changes later in the day and the shots are taken much further away, the girls looking unhappy and apprehensive. Even weirder are night time shots taken later of the sky, the jungle, the back of one girl's head and toilet paper laid out in patterns on a rock. One photograph - and one photograph alone - was found to have been deleted and despite both girls' cameras and phones having video functions, they took no videos at all.
6. Both girls attempted to call emergency services many times on their phones for days afterwards, some to the Dutch number 112 and others to the Panama 911 number, but none were successful.
7. The girls were reported missing pretty quickly and a search of the area mounted, but despite the trail being close to town and having people walk it regularly, not a trace of them could be found either on the ground or from the air.
8. Two months later, a backpack the girls were carrying was found by a river in perfect condition. It contained cash, one girl's passport, the water bottle, both girl's bras, sunglasses and phones and one girl's camera. The shorts one girl was wearing was also found, but not their shirts, their panties nor their footwear.
9. Skeletal remains of both girls were found in July, but both were incomplete and in completely different condition. One girl's bones were bleached, the other girl's were not. There was no trace of animals gnawing at the bones.
10. The taxi driver who had driven the girls to the trail that day died prematurely and mysteriously less than a year after Kris and Lisanne died.

So what happened here? Did the girls - either deliberately or accidentally - go off the trail and get lost and possibly injured and die of exposure? Did they fall to their deaths in the jungle or fall in a river and drown? Were they abducted and murdered by a serial killer? Were they in the wrong place at the wrong time - for example accidentally stumbling across organized crime activities - and murdered to keep them quiet? Did they fall prey to predatory animals?

Any are possible, but the bizarre circumstances cast strong doubt on all of them. For example, if lost and/or injured, how were they not found despite the extensive search not that far out of town, and clearly both were alive for some time afterwards trying to call for help on their phones? This also seems to rule out instant deaths like falling or drowning. Why did the mood in the photographs change throughout the afternoon and why was one deleted? Serial killers or organized criminals would have immediately taken the phones from the girls, and neither would have allowed their possessions to be found. And why were only some of the girls' possessions and clothes found and not others? The cash in the bag suggests robbery wasn't the motive. True, serial killers are known to take souvenirs of their crimes from the victims, but anything they didn't want would probably have been destroyed, not put back in the backpack and tossed near the trail where they vanished from months earlier. And how were the bones of both girls in such different states when they were found? Neither set of bones showed any clue as to how they died, and the lack of animals chewing at the bones suggest that a predatory animal attack wasn't the cause of their deaths.

This tragic case is a very mysterious one and sadly, I don't know if it will ever be solved.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Eliza Lam is another that makes no sense to me.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Also, what’s the one about people going to an island?
One I think was Dutch owned.

Also, what’s the one about some boats and a light tower similar to the one on Tound the Twist?

 

[Exe Gesis]

This case drives me crazy. At face value it looks like a cautionary tale about the dangers that can face European tourists who venture to out of the way places in the Americas, Africa, Asia or Australia and in many ways it is, but what happened is just flat out weird and totally inexplicable eight years later. For example:

1. The girls were booked to hike the same trail the next day with a professional guide as part of a tourist group.
2. In some ways the girls were well prepared for their hike but in some ways woefully underprepared. For example they took toilet paper, but despite the warm and humid weather prone to change neither girl had a hat and they had just one small bottle of water between them and no food.
3. The girls took the dog of the host family with them, but the dog returned home on his own later that evening unharmed.
4. The timeframe of the days events are wildly inconsistent from witness statements.
5. Photographs taken by the girls in the early part of the hike are close up, some selfies and they look happy and relaxed. However this abruptly changes later in the day and the shots are taken much further away, the girls looking unhappy and apprehensive. Even weirder are night time shots taken later of the sky, the jungle, the back of one girl's head and toilet paper laid out in patterns on a rock. One photograph - and one photograph alone - was found to have been deleted and despite both girls' cameras and phones having video functions, they took no videos at all.
6. Both girls attempted to call emergency services many times on their phones for days afterwards, some to the Dutch number 112 and others to the Panama 911 number, but none were successful.
7. The girls were reported missing pretty quickly and a search of the area mounted, but despite the trail being close to town and having people walk it regularly, not a trace of them could be found either on the ground or from the air.
8. Two months later, a backpack the girls were carrying was found by a river in perfect condition. It contained cash, one girl's passport, the water bottle, both girl's bras, sunglasses and phones and one girl's camera. The shorts one girl was wearing was also found, but not their shirts, their panties nor their footwear.
9. Skeletal remains of both girls were found in July, but both were incomplete and in completely different condition. One girl's bones were bleached, the other girl's were not. There was no trace of animals gnawing at the bones.
10. The taxi driver who had driven the girls to the trail that day died prematurely and mysteriously less than a year after Kris and Lisanne died.

So what happened here? Did the girls - either deliberately or accidentally - go off the trail and get lost and possibly injured and die of exposure? Did they fall to their deaths in the jungle or fall in a river and drown? Were they abducted and murdered by a serial killer? Were they in the wrong place at the wrong time - for example accidentally stumbling across organized crime activities - and murdered to keep them quiet? Did they fall prey to predatory animals?

Any are possible, but the bizarre circumstances cast strong doubt on all of them. For example, if lost and/or injured, how were they not found despite the extensive search not that far out of town, and clearly both were alive for some time afterwards trying to call for help on their phones? This also seems to rule out instant deaths like falling or drowning. Why did the mood in the photographs change throughout the afternoon and why was one deleted? Serial killers or organized criminals would have immediately taken the phones from the girls, and neither would have allowed their possessions to be found. And why were only some of the girls' possessions and clothes found and not others? The cash in the bag suggests robbery wasn't the motive. True, serial killers are known to take souvenirs of their crimes from the victims, but anything they didn't want would probably have been destroyed, not put back in the backpack and tossed near the trail where they vanished from months earlier. And how were the bones of both girls in such different states when they were found? Neither set of bones showed any clue as to how they died, and the lack of animals chewing at the bones suggest that a predatory animal attack wasn't the cause of their deaths.

This tragic case is a very mysterious one and sadly, I don't know if it will ever be solved.

Seems obvious to me. The failed PIN entries a week later. The photo of Kris head, her hair all dry, tho next photo seconds later shows rain in sky. Bleached bones. All the various body parts found scattered in the jungle 8-14 hours walking distance apart. The bone dry backpack found by a river bed but bone dry, and the person who found it said the backpack wasn't there the day before. The deleted photo which investigators said wasn't just manually deleted from the phone but wiped from a computer. Also, another female backpacker years later was found brutally murdered in the same jungle. Add that the entire region is rife with dangerous gangs known to murder locals and tourists. Probably missed a few other tell-tale bits of evidence, but it seems clear they were abducted and eventually butchered, dismembered, and the assailant(s) took the backpack back home, wiped photo evidence of them being photographed by the girls, and then strategically placed at that riverbed.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Also, one of the sites where Kris' bone fragments was found also contained bone fragments of three other unidentified people. So it seems like a dumping site for murdered tourists

 

[emuboy]

Seems obvious to me. The failed PIN entries a week later. The photo of Kris head, her hair all dry, tho next photo seconds later shows rain in sky. Bleached bones. All the various body parts found scattered in the jungle 8-14 hours walking distance apart. The bone dry backpack found by a river bed but bone dry, and the person who found it said the backpack wasn't there the day before. The deleted photo which investigators said wasn't just manually deleted from the phone but wiped from a computer. Also, another female backpacker years later was found brutally murdered in the same jungle. Add that the entire region is rife with dangerous gangs known to murder locals and tourists. Probably missed a few other tell-tale bits of evidence, but it seems clear they were abducted and eventually butchered, dismembered, and the assailant(s) took the backpack back home, wiped photo evidence of them being photographed by the girls, and then strategically placed at that riverbed.

I agree that the unfortunate girls may have met with some dangerous men in the jungle, whether predators or organized criminals who were worried that Kris and Leanne were witness to their crimes and eliminated them. But such men would have taken the girls' phones straight away, even if they were held captive and the abductors had the phones, there was the danger of the signals being traced from mobile phone towers.

With regards to the backpack, wouldn't it have been easier to dispose of it (such as burying it in a remote location) so it would never re-surface? And it was very odd that of the girls' possessions found in the bag and in the area, sometimes things from both girls were found, sometimes things belonging to one girl but not the other and other items were completely missing as follows:

Passports - One found, one missing
Sunglasses - Both pairs found
Cameras - One found, one missing
Phones - Both found
Shirts - Not found
Shorts - One pair found, one missing
Bras - Both found
Panties - Not found
Footwear - Not found, although fragments with the skeletal remains

It's just so strange that the perpetrators (assuming the girls met with foul play) would allow any possessions of their victims to be found, much less a camera and phones on which there was a significant risk of an incriminating recording or image.

 

[Exe Gesis]

I agree that the unfortunate girls may have met with some dangerous men in the jungle, whether predators or organized criminals who were worried that Kris and Leanne were witness to their crimes and eliminated them. But such men would have taken the girls' phones straight away, even if they were held captive and the abductors had the phones, there was the danger of the signals being traced from mobile phone towers.

With regards to the backpack, wouldn't it have been easier to dispose of it (such as burying it in a remote location) so it would never re-surface? And it was very odd that of the girls' possessions found in the bag and in the area, sometimes things from both girls were found, sometimes things belonging to one girl but not the other and other items were completely missing as follows:

Passports - One found, one missing
Sunglasses - Both pairs found
Cameras - One found, one missing
Phones - Both found
Shirts - Not found
Shorts - One pair found, one missing
Bras - Both found
Panties - Not found
Footwear - Not found, although fragments with the skeletal remains

It's just so strange that the perpetrators (assuming the girls met with foul play) would allow any possessions of their victims to be found, much less a camera and phones on which there was a significant risk of an incriminating recording or image.

There are anomalies and illogical aspects for sure. I would put that down to the killer(s) have done this often before and know how to obfuscate evidence to make it look like something other than murder. But for sure it is murder imo. That much I can deduct from just a few of those things mentioned previous post.

 

[Cruyff14]

Never heard of this case, very interesting.

 

[emuboy]

There are anomalies and illogical aspects for sure. I would put that down to the killer(s) have done this often before and know how to obfuscate evidence to make it look like something other than murder. But for sure it is murder imo. That much I can deduct from just a few of those things mentioned previous post.

I definitely agree that there was foul play in this case rather than deaths by misadventure. Still, if the perpetrator(s) did take the weird photographs in the jungle late at night, were using the phones days after to make phony phone calls to emergency services and then left some but not all of the girls' clothes and belongings near the trail to be found months later, it is kind of odd and certainly a risk.

Would it not have been easier and less of a risk for the girls to simply vanish with no clues as to their fate? This is certainly possible with two inexperienced girls from Europe in a jungle in a foreign country in Central America. The people responsible would have had plenty of time and space in the forest to completely remove all traces of their victims, it wasn't like they were in a big city like New York where it would have been much harder to do this. Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers would have had their names added to a list of names which includes Dorothy Arnold, Paula Welden, Tammy Lynn Leppert, Sheryl Levitt, Suzie Streeter, Stacy McCall, Rhianna Barreau, Kristin Smart, Molly Anne Bish, Maura Murray and Natalee Holloway of women who vanished in mysterious circumstances, never to be seen or heard of again.

It's mysterious that those responsible (if indeed it was foul play) would go to so much trouble to set up a false scenario that suggests the girls died of misadventure rather than homicide.

 

[emuboy]

Eliza Lam is another that makes no sense to me.

That's an odd case, where she was seen disoriented and distressed on security footage in the hotel only to be found dead weeks later in the water tank on the roof.

 

[charcoalchicken]

This case drives me crazy. At face value it looks like a cautionary tale about the dangers that can face European tourists who venture to out of the way places in the Americas, Africa, Asia or Australia and in many ways it is, but what happened is just flat out weird and totally inexplicable eight years later. For example:

1. The girls were booked to hike the same trail the next day with a professional guide as part of a tourist group.
2. In some ways the girls were well prepared for their hike but in some ways woefully underprepared. For example they took toilet paper, but despite the warm and humid weather prone to change neither girl had a hat and they had just one small bottle of water between them and no food.
3. The girls took the dog of the host family with them, but the dog returned home on his own later that evening unharmed.
4. The timeframe of the days events are wildly inconsistent from witness statements.
5. Photographs taken by the girls in the early part of the hike are close up, some selfies and they look happy and relaxed. However this abruptly changes later in the day and the shots are taken much further away, the girls looking unhappy and apprehensive. Even weirder are night time shots taken later of the sky, the jungle, the back of one girl's head and toilet paper laid out in patterns on a rock. One photograph - and one photograph alone - was found to have been deleted and despite both girls' cameras and phones having video functions, they took no videos at all.
6. Both girls attempted to call emergency services many times on their phones for days afterwards, some to the Dutch number 112 and others to the Panama 911 number, but none were successful.
7. The girls were reported missing pretty quickly and a search of the area mounted, but despite the trail being close to town and having people walk it regularly, not a trace of them could be found either on the ground or from the air.
8. Two months later, a backpack the girls were carrying was found by a river in perfect condition. It contained cash, one girl's passport, the water bottle, both girl's bras, sunglasses and phones and one girl's camera. The shorts one girl was wearing was also found, but not their shirts, their panties nor their footwear.
9. Skeletal remains of both girls were found in July, but both were incomplete and in completely different condition. One girl's bones were bleached, the other girl's were not. There was no trace of animals gnawing at the bones.
10. The taxi driver who had driven the girls to the trail that day died prematurely and mysteriously less than a year after Kris and Lisanne died.

So what happened here? Did the girls - either deliberately or accidentally - go off the trail and get lost and possibly injured and die of exposure? Did they fall to their deaths in the jungle or fall in a river and drown? Were they abducted and murdered by a serial killer? Were they in the wrong place at the wrong time - for example accidentally stumbling across organized crime activities - and murdered to keep them quiet? Did they fall prey to predatory animals?

Any are possible, but the bizarre circumstances cast strong doubt on all of them. For example, if lost and/or injured, how were they not found despite the extensive search not that far out of town, and clearly both were alive for some time afterwards trying to call for help on their phones? This also seems to rule out instant deaths like falling or drowning. Why did the mood in the photographs change throughout the afternoon and why was one deleted? Serial killers or organized criminals would have immediately taken the phones from the girls, and neither would have allowed their possessions to be found. And why were only some of the girls' possessions and clothes found and not others? The cash in the bag suggests robbery wasn't the motive. True, serial killers are known to take souvenirs of their crimes from the victims, but anything they didn't want would probably have been destroyed, not put back in the backpack and tossed near the trail where they vanished from months earlier. And how were the bones of both girls in such different states when they were found? Neither set of bones showed any clue as to how they died, and the lack of animals chewing at the bones suggest that a predatory animal attack wasn't the cause of their deaths.

This tragic case is a very mysterious one and sadly, I don't know if it will ever be solved.

They got murdered
What makes it strange is how the evidence presented itself but they got murdered nonetheless

 

[emuboy]

I've never heard about these names and found the information about them, thanks for sharing , the cases are really confusing and scary. Do you know about similar cases but about men?

Have you ever heard of the Bennington Triangle disappearances in Vermont in the 1940s? Paula Welden, an 18-year-old college student who vanished hiking the Long Trail in 1946 is the best known missing person from this case, but there were other people who disappeared too, some of them male.

One was an experienced tour guide called Middy Rivers, who was leading a group of hunters through the area, got slightly in front - and was seen no more. He was never seen nor heard of again. A farming couple Mr. and Mrs. Jepson were doing some work at a pig pen, became distracted for a minute at most, and that was all it took for their young son Paul to vanish without trace. Oddly, the parents spoke of their son begging to go to the mountains in the days before which was out of character, and bloodhounds who tried to trace his scent just suddenly stopped, unable to follow it any more. Even stranger, an elderly soldier James Tetford disappeared on a bus on the way to Bennington where he resided at an old soldiers' home in 1949. His belongings were on the bus, but of him there was no sign. There was an older woman Frieda Langer who vanished from the Long Trail in 1950, but her body was found months later in an open clearing that had been searched previously. Also two younger teenagers - a boy named Melvin Hills and a girl named Frances Christman - vanished (separately) from this region in the 1940s, but from town not in the forest. Neither was going far, and no trace of them was ever found.

Closer to home and more recently, a British tourist David Eason inexplicably vanished from Fraser Island in early 2001, last seen near Lake Wabby. After his tour group raised the alarm a massive land, sea and air search was launched, to no avail. But years later, Eason's skeleton and belongings were found close to Lake Wabby, less than a kilometer from where he was last seen, an area searched extensively previously and which is a reasonably busy part of the island.

 

[emuboy]

They got murdered
What makes it strange is how the evidence presented itself but they got murdered nonetheless

I have been watching videos and reading about the Froon-Kremers case for the last few days ever since it came up on this thread, and there was an interesting alternate theory that seemed to get pushed to one side and forgotten. What if the two girls did make it back down from the trail and instead were abducted before they could return to their lodgings? There were apparently some witness statements from people who advised that they had seen both girls late in the afternoon and in the early evening in the town. And while witnesses can get things wrong in high profile cases like this one, these two girls would have stood out, Lisanne because she was 6 feet 1 in height, Kris because of her red hair.

So if as a hypothetical Lisanne and Kris did meet some new 'friends' on their hike back down the trail who proved to be anything but friendly when they returned to town, this might explain why the perpetrators would go to so much trouble to create the illusion that the girls got into trouble on their hike, became lost and eventually died after succumbing to the elements in the forest. If the girls had accidentally seen illegal activities in the forest and been silenced as potential witnesses, these criminals would have no cause to carry on such a masquerade, and the two girls and their possessions would have vanished without trace, never to be seen again.

 

[Exe Gesis]

I have been watching videos and reading about the Froon-Kremers case for the last few days ever since it came up on this thread, and there was an interesting alternate theory that seemed to get pushed to one side and forgotten. What if the two girls did make it back down from the trail and instead were abducted before they could return to their lodgings? There were apparently some witness statements from people who advised that they had seen both girls late in the afternoon and in the early evening in the town. And while witnesses can get things wrong in high profile cases like this one, these two girls would have stood out, Lisanne because she was 6 feet 1 in height, Kris because of her red hair.

So if as a hypothetical Lisanne and Kris did meet some new 'friends' on their hike back down the trail who proved to be anything but friendly when they returned to town, this might explain why the perpetrators would go to so much trouble to create the illusion that the girls got into trouble on their hike, became lost and eventually died after succumbing to the elements in the forest. If the girls had accidentally seen illegal activities in the forest and been silenced as potential witnesses, these criminals would have no cause to carry on such a masquerade, and the two girls and their possessions would have vanished without trace, never to be seen again.

Thats a good theory.

 

[Exe Gesis]

The only iffy thing about it is the photo of Kris' head/hair in the night time about 5 or so hours after the last day shot.

 

[megadeth86]

Sorry if it has already been mentioned but the disappearance of a whole immigrant family on Christmas Eve in America in the 1940s or 1950s, one theory is that a communist government from Europe disposed of them.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Sorry if it has already been mentioned but the disappearance of a whole immigrant family on Christmas Eve in America in the 1940s or 1950s, one theory is that a communist government from Europe disposed of them.

Is that the Italian family? Where just like 5 of the children were abducted after a house fire?

 

[emuboy]

Is that the Italian family? Where just like 5 of the children were abducted after a house fire?

The Sodder family. It's still a big mystery 77 years later, both the circumstances of the fire - no sign of arson, an electrical fault, sparks from a wood fire, overturned heater or something left on the stove - and some odd events leading up to it, during and in the aftermath of the fire. The parents, older kids and younger kids all escaped the blaze, and the father and older kids desperately tried to rescue the middle five kids but to no avail. However these missing kids were not at all seen during or the aftermath of the fire by surviving family members, and while kids can understandably panic during such a terrifying event one of the missing sons was aged 14 and a missing daughter was 12, so adolescents rather than children. Their remains were never found in the burned out house, and no trace of them could ever be found. The last surviving member of the family who survived the fire, daughter Sylvia who was aged 2 at the time, died at age 78 in 2021.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The Sodder family. It's still a big mystery 77 years later, both the circumstances of the fire - no sign of arson, an electrical fault, sparks from a wood fire, overturned heater or something left on the stove - and some odd events leading up to it, during and in the aftermath of the fire. The parents, older kids and younger kids all escaped the blaze, and the father and older kids desperately tried to rescue the middle five kids but to no avail. However these missing kids were not at all seen during or the aftermath of the fire by surviving family members, and while kids can understandably panic during such a terrifying event one of the missing sons was aged 14 and a missing daughter was 12, so adolescents rather than children. Their remains were never found in the burned out house, and no trace of them could ever be found. The last surviving member of the family who survived the fire, daughter Sylvia who was aged 2 at the time, died at age 78 in 2021.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Thoughts GG.exe ?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Thoughts GG.exe ?

I'll watch it tonight in another hour or so, just in the middle of a movie, and will let you know in here.

Thanks for sharing with me

 

[Exe Gesis]

Thoughts GG.exe ?

Seems pretty obvious there was a cover up and conspiracy.

I believe the salesmans warning was to set up the notion the missing kids had died in the fire, never to actually kill them and the children. The local police, the fire department, and maybe prominent Italian residents, seem obviously involved in whisking the kids away and protecting them from discovery.

George Sodder may have been involved in something shady and it was a payback. Or maybe concerned locals trying to save the children from that family, as opposed to a kidnapping.

The photo sent 20 years later sure looks like Louis.

The detective sent to investigate who was never heard from again, either murdered or threatened or bribed to stay away and disappear.

Either kidnap against the kids will, as payback against George. Or they were specifically taken away to protect them from the family.

Theres no way you could force kidnapped kids, who were then placed in new homes and families, to keep quiet for 50 years and disown their family, ensuring 24/7 for 50 years theyd never try to contact their family and let them know, or to come save them etc. They obviously werent in danger, like trafficked etc. Just whisked away and re-posited into new families.

 

[emuboy]

Seems pretty obvious there was a cover up and conspiracy.

I believe the salesmans warning was to set up the notion the missing kids had died in the fire, never to actually kill them and the children. The local police, the fire department, and maybe prominent Italian residents, seem obviously involved in whisking the kids away and protecting them from discovery.

George Sodder may have been involved in something shady and it was a payback. Or maybe concerned locals trying to save the children from that family, as opposed to a kidnapping.

The photo sent 20 years later sure looks like Louis.

The detective sent to investigate who was never heard from again, either murdered or threatened or bribed to stay away and disappear.

Either kidnap against the kids will, as payback against George. Or they were specifically taken away to protect them from the family.

Theres no way you could force kidnapped kids, who were then placed in new homes and families, to keep quiet for 50 years and disown their family, ensuring 24/7 for 50 years theyd never try to contact their family and let them know, or to come save them etc. They obviously werent in danger, like trafficked etc. Just whisked away and re-posited into new families.

One of the biggest mysteries of the case is how if the five kids were taken from the house before the fire started (and how did those responsible manage this anyway), how they stayed silent all those years. Especially as one of the missing boys was 14 and one of the girls 12, so adolescents rather than children, and another missing boy was aged 10 so they would know what was going on wasn't normal and probably would not have fallen for persuasion techniques used by kidnappers and put up some sort of resistance to an abduction.

There have been cases for many years of child abductions where children kidnapped and stolen away and sold to couples who cannot have children on the black market, often speculated in high profile cases such as Madeline McCann or William Tyrell. But usually these victims are infants or toddlers, it would be unlikely to kidnap primary school aged kids and even less likely teenagers for the reason that they would be able to tell other people what had happened. In any case, the Sodder family had several younger children who survived the fire like the parents and older children, wouldn't such kidnappers have tried to abduct them instead?

While Sylvia Sodder the last member of the family died aged 78 in 2021, there is a strong chance that the five missing kids could have lived well into the 2010s, or even still be alive today. Maurice would have been born in 1931, Martha in 1933, Louis in 1935, Jennie in 1937 and Bettie in 1939, there are still plenty of people born in the 1920s and 1930s still living as at 2022. All would have had some memories of their past life, it's a high profile case, yet not one of them ever came forward.

 

[Exe Gesis]

One of the biggest mysteries of the case is how if the five kids were taken from the house before the fire started (and how did those responsible manage this anyway), how they stayed silent all those years. Especially as one of the missing boys was 14 and one of the girls 12, so adolescents rather than children, and another missing boy was aged 10 so they would know what was going on wasn't normal and probably would not have fallen for persuasion techniques used by kidnappers and put up some sort of resistance to an abduction.

There have been cases for many years of child abductions where children kidnapped and stolen away and sold to couples who cannot have children on the black market, often speculated in high profile cases such as Madeline McCann or William Tyrell. But usually these victims are infants or toddlers, it would be unlikely to kidnap primary school aged kids and even less likely teenagers for the reason that they would be able to tell other people what had happened. In any case, the Sodder family had several younger children who survived the fire like the parents and older children, wouldn't such kidnappers have tried to abduct them instead?

While Sylvia Sodder the last member of the family died aged 78 in 2021, there is a strong chance that the five missing kids could have lived well into the 2010s, or even still be alive today. Maurice would have been born in 1931, Martha in 1933, Louis in 1935, Jennie in 1937 and Bettie in 1939, there are still plenty of people born in the 1920s and 1930s still living as at 2022. All would have had some memories of their past life, it's a high profile case, yet not one of them ever came forward.

Thats why I reckon the kids werent kidnapped against their will, theyd surely have eventually contacted family to let them know theyre okay, no way kidnappers could ensure 24/7 x 50 yrs their silence.

Instead, i feel like maybe the takers of the children were perhaps protecting them from the family, those specific kids taken, who all slept in the same two rooms. They were happily seen eating breakfast a day later, seen in a fine state weeks later, etc. And then years later, effort by the new families or schools etc to deny George further investigation into it.

Anyway, a pre-fire conspiracy seems clear with how fire dept responded, how coroner etc made up lies to paint a picture of faulty wiring, torched into dust bones, etc and the salesman part of the jury. Salesman not a salesman, but scoped the house. Reports of those kids being followed days before etc.

 

[Kurve]

Not sure if this should be here or in the UFO thread. Here, I think.

A long time ago, an Aboriginal tracker up north cautioned me about the min min lights in outback Australia. It was told to me as they were spirit and interaction isn't encouraged, that you might go with the min min lights and never be seen again. It's not that I didn't believe him but I imagined they were probably tiny little swarms of bioluminescent insects.

They're not like insects at all, they're solid orbs of bright white light and grace with fuzzy edges, perfect spheres bigger than a bowling ball and they followed my F150, moving from side to side, over the cabin on and off for about 100km of road south of Cloncurry before I hit Longreach Saturday night from around 2.30am.

First reaction wasn't 'min min lights', my mind searched for something else and I looked around for the source. There was nothing there, I was in the middle of the outback, they were min min lights. I googled them when I got home and there isn't much written about them. There should be more.