Which players won't play a senior game in 2012?

Stubba1

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#51
Sadly, football is a ruthless business. Winning grandfinals is even more ruthless. Carlton is clearly committed to winning a grand final very soon and will do whatever it takes to do so. It can't be any other way. I was disappointed to see Setanta go but I knew it was inevitable. There is a long list of very good players that Carlton has let go over the years to keep winning flags. That's the reality.
 

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#52
With a returning Waite, a fitter Kruezer and Ratten's decision to trial the Hammer forward along with his now well established longer term interest in Rowe and Mitchell in the wings it really wasn't that hard to see why Irish ended up being surplus.

Obviously this is hindsight as we didn't know about Rowe or the plans for Hammer and who knows how long Mitchell might take but it does serve to highlight the knowledge gap for most on here in terms of what the club actually has in mind.

Injuries aside I think we'll start to see more players used in season as we instigate a rest policy for the midfield group in particular but it doesn't mean everyone will get a game.

With the expectation of the likes of Lucas, Waite, Hammer, Russell, Curnow? Bower? and Rowe coming into the side we're going to see guys who got more games last year get alot less next year.

The likes of Armfield, Joseph, Tuohy, Davies Thornton?, Mclean? could be in and out of the side quite a lot covering for others who are resting.

As others have stated I would have thought the likes of Kerr would be in their last year on the list unless something from left field occurs and realistically is at best, depth within the list.
 

Yubby

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#57
Someone mentioned earlier that for us to be successful we need a stable team and that no more than 35 players should be used within the season to ensure continuity in our team and demonstrate this stability.

If you take my starting 22 and look at the remainder of the playing group who i think are a chance to play in 2012, in previous years you would expect that the majority of this list would get gametime throughout the year. Ideally this list has to shrink which shows that our depth and list is in a really healthy space or that perhaps my expectations need to change :)

Armfield, Dennis
Bootsma, Josh
Bower, Paul
Collins, Andrew
Davies, Marcus
Hampson, Shaun
Joseph, Aaron
McLean, Brock
Mitchell, Luke
Rowe, Sam
Watson, Matthew
White, Simon
Bell, Tom
Curnow, Ed
Heyne, Nick
O'Keefe, Rhys
Tuohy, Zach

(I've left out Bray, Carter, Casboult, Dale, Lodge, Buckley, Kerr, McCarthy, McInnes)


Realistically we need 4 or 5 of the 17 players above to not get any gametime to keep our used players at no more than 35.

At a pinch you could assume Bell, O'Keefe, Heyne and Bootsma would all miss out but i'd also expect at least 1 of them to get a game this year... so who misses out?
 
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#60
If Kerr gets a game (and I hope he does) it will be because walker or garlett are playing more in the midfield or they are injured.

I don't think Mitchell will play more than 5 games next year if any. I'm hoping Watson or bower have a big year and push Henderson to the forward line. I would be over the moon if McLean can replay faith.
 

LanceRomance

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#61
IMO, Bower will struggle to find a spot in the team next year.

Bower should be ok provided he doesn't get injured throughout the remaining preseason (which has been his issue the last couple of years). I recall he had a recurring quad injury until halfway through this season.

Unlike some of the other players who were outside of the best 22 last year he has significant game time and his experience may prove useful.

If he is in form, his height would be useful when playing a tall team like the Eagles especially if they want to move a player like JK or QL around the ground for a better crack at goal. There is no chance they would catch him either.
 

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goreds

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#62
Bower will play next year. How much is the question with him, as it is for several others.
It will largely be about taking your opportunities, but Bower has it in his favour that he is moving quite freely now.
He will struggle to get a run with Jamo and Hendo up and going...

Laids now has the footy smarts to play the Milburn role that Geelong were grooming him for, the chop out defender that runs hard and is smart, Duigan gives you that real hardness, going back with the flight style player and that leaves 2 spots for the running qtr backs/stoppers...

No room for him back there...
 
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Moderator #63
He will struggle to get a run with Jamo and Hendo up and going...

Laids now has the footy smarts to play the Milburn role that Geelong were grooming him for, the chop out defender that runs hard and is smart, Duigan gives you that real hardness, going back with the flight style player and that leaves 2 spots for the running qtr backs/stoppers...

No room for him back there...
I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree.

I think the fact that Jamo and Hendo are up and going together in the defensive unit bodes well for Bower. Bower isn't a CHB. Even though he's been played there at times over the years, I think he's far more suited to play as a 3rd tall defender where he can use his run to zone off his opponent and pump the ball into our forward half.

Laidler is a gun. He's going to be a permanent fixture in our lineup for many years to come - but don't be surprised if you see him spend a little time on the wing. He played there at times in 2011 to great effect and as such I wouldn't be surprised if he did so with a little more frequency in 2012 and beyond.

Make no mistake about it - Bower is close. Then when you factor in the inevitable injuries, suspensions and lapses in form, then IMO Bower playing becomes an absolute inevitability.
 

TerryWallet

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#64
I've got Bower as the Sub in my starting 22 if everyone is fit. His height, run and versatility make him suited i think. Also , the query on his durability might see him play a fair few games as Sub.

I can see him being very useful in the 2nd half of a game on a wing or backline if we want to push Yaz or Laids up to a wing.

Like a dozen or so other periphery 22 players, he will get his chance to cement a spot.
 

TerryWallet

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#65
I don't think Mitchell will play more than 5 games next year if any. I'm hoping Watson or bower have a big year and push Henderson to the forward line. I would be over the moon if McLean can replay faith.

I can't believe people are even remotely considering Henderson as a forward again. He does not have the required tools to be an AFL KPF.

But as a backman he does have the tools. At this stage he looks the goods to be Jamo's 2nd fiddle for years to come down back.
 

parrot

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#66
I'd be amazed if Hendo moves from CHB in 2012. He was outstanding in 2011. I knew he arrived after his game on Franklin. He has the perfect mix of height and athleticism to go with Buddy. Hendo also towelled up the Riewoldt's pretty easy, and had too much height and athelticism for Hurley. Jamo's better suited to the faster leading deep forwards, but they could easily swap players if they're struggling. It's a great setup actually, with Laidler and Duigan providing some extra coverage. It would be a huge ask for a player like Watson to take over from Hendo at this stage. Maybe a few years down the track. We'll also have McCarthy coming into the mix at some point, and Bootsma's natural talent is already hard too ignore.

:)
 

Silvagnis

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#67
I can't believe people are even remotely considering Henderson as a forward again. He does not have the required tools to be an AFL KPF.

But as a backman he does have the tools. At this stage he looks the goods to be Jamo's 2nd fiddle for years to come down back.
You would have said the same thing about Walker after his fourth season. We're not talking about Bower here. Henderson played well as a defender because he can read the play and set up play like a centre half forward using his mobility. Isn't a natural backman like Jamison who has only recently brought an attacking side to his game. Henderson's ability to track a leading forward and spoil isn't a patch on Jamison's. Like Watson and McCarthy, Lachie has the tools to develop into a quality defender, but is still a work in progress.
 

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#68
I can't believe people are even remotely considering Henderson as a forward again. He does not have the required tools to be an AFL KPF.

But as a backman he does have the tools. At this stage he looks the goods to be Jamo's 2nd fiddle for years to come down back.
Henderson can mark, has a good eye for the play and is quite athletic for his size. Will still end his career as a forward IMO.

People are judging a young KPP too soon and are anxious to pigeon hole him. Played his entire junior career as a forward and was drafted as one at pick 8. What's even better is he has shown form as a forward in the later part of 2010.
 

TerryWallet

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#69
I'm willing to bet a Jacko handstand that Hendo will never be a Premiership KPF as long as his backside points to the ground.

He does show great promise as a KPD though. If he can be a 2nd banana tall Premiership defender ala Lonergan, Gilham, Ted Richards or Roberts-Thompson then thankyou very much Vossy.

He is a promising backman.

As an AFL forward , he is never dangerous and a dream for any good defender to play on.

IMHO he has found his spot.
 
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Pretty sure 25 goals in his first full season of playing as a KPF, and his first at a new club, qualifies him as dangerous.
 

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Wouldnt write Hendo off as a forward, but I suspect we'll see him used sparingly up front, as we did Jamison for one or two games in 2011. Having a settled defence is vital to our interest.

Really, theres only one spot up for grabs at the moment in defence, and at this stage its most recent occupant was marcus davies. Theres a queue for that spot too. Bower and Russell could and have filled it in the past.

Full back: Duigan, Jamison, (Bower/Russell)
Half Back: Yarran, Henderson, Laidler
 

Silvagnis

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#72
I'm willing to bet a Jacko handstand that Hendo will never be a Premiership KPF as long as his backside points to the ground.
Nathan Ablett and Ashley Hansen are premiership forwards.
As an AFL forward , he is never dangerous and a dream for any good defender to play on.
Three goals and six marks against Geelong's backline in round 21 of the 2010 season must have been an aberration.

Lachie is a slow starter who needs to be 100% to play his natural game as a CHF.
 

parrot

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#73
Lots of Perception V Reality gaps. Hendo kicks 25 goals at 20yo, after barely playing an AFL game at the Retreads up until then, and is thought to have "struggled", whereas Hurley plays KPF and kicks 27 goals for the whole year, and is labelled "an outright superstar KPF" by the media cheerleaders. On Watts - he's just not a very good footballer.

Hendo's best position for the team right now is CHB, but he could easily swing forward and be damaging at CHF if the need arises. That's a huge asset

:)
 

TerryWallet

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#74
Nathan Ablett and Ashley Hansen are premiership forwards.

Three goals and six marks against Geelong's backline in round 21 of the 2010 season must have been an aberration.

Lachie is a slow starter who needs to be 100% to play his natural game as a CHF.

Yeah and John Georgiadis once kicked 8 against our gun backline. Doesn't mean he was any good as an AFL player though.

I know i'll never win this argument on a board full of Carlton fanatics but that's ok.

I'd have more success here arguing that Hendo is Royce Hart reincarnated than arguing that he is a promising tall defender but hasn't got the game to be a successful KPF.

I guess i'll have to take comfort from the fact the coaches agree seeing as they played him back even without Waite, Kruezer and Hampson late last year, and have gone and added Rowe now as well.

In Ratten we trust:)
 

Blue and Silver

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#75
Yeah and John Georgiadis once kicked 8 against our gun backline. Doesn't mean he was any good as an AFL player though.

I know i'll never win this argument on a board full of Carlton fanatics but that's ok.

I'd have more success here arguing that Hendo is Royce Hart reincarnated than arguing that he is a promising tall defender but hasn't got the game to be a successful KPF.

I guess i'll have to take comfort from the fact the coaches agree seeing as they played him back even without Waite, Kruezer and Hampson late last year, and have gone and added Rowe now as well.

In Ratten we trust:)
Typical pessimist retort.

People don't agree with my unsupported opinion therefore they are sheep.

Even with Hendo as a forward we would need a succession plan for Waite and Thornton beyond Mitchell and Casboult, which is why we added Rowe. As for him playing back he was the only fit player on our list who could after Jamison, Bower, White and Waite were all struck with injuries, except for Thornton who has never been a good man on man.

Henderson has a great attacking flair and can certainly win contested marking battles, but has consistently struggled with opponents on the lead. Gives his all but isn't the best at close manning. I think he will be our CHF by 2013 once Watson and McCarthy get a good crack at CHB.
 
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