Prediction Which recruits will have the biggest impacts this year?

[sirlothie]

Wake up TD both are best 22 as this discussion takes place.

What makes you say that when White was dropped from Round 17 to 22 and Moore played every game except 1 from Round 14 onwards?

Moore is favoured ahead of White now.

 

[sirlothie]

My guess is if Moore plays 20+ games and stays forward which is to be expected, 20 goals will be a bit disappointing, 30 will be a good year and 40 will be a great year.

Remember he played back early and was learning the caper and still managed a goal a game and has shown he is capable of a bag.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Moore will get some VFL games in 2016 and that won't be bad for him.

People are expecting far too much far too early, he'll have an up and down year.

Only if he goes through really a patch of quietness in the seniors. He should be ahead of White now when being picked for round 1.

 

[DERKADERRR]

It's an interesting selection battle between White, Moore and Cox. I don't think it is clear cut either way.

White gets a bum wrap on here, but his failure to kick goals when it mattered really hurt the team. I think he is out of favour with the coaches. I think Howes selection and the reasons given for the recruitment, his running patterns and linking work, were revealing about White.

I have Moore ahead of White because of his temperament but he isn't quite an AFL standard player yet. I reckon Cox might surprise a few this season just quietly.

Great post Quicky.
Cox is probably the player that I'm most eager to see in the nab cup, although the pre season comp means little usually I feel it would mean more for Cox due to his non-AFL background.

On Moore I feel 40 goals is a fairly unfair expectation for a second year key forward, of course it would be great for him to achieve it but expecting it is completely different. (Unrelated to you Quicky but I thought I might add this because it seems to be a discussion point)

 

[Vicky Park]

To answer the question of the thread - Treloar. Our biggest (and most costly) recruit in a very long time. He has to have a big impact.

Of the others, Aish would be next in line to have an impact, then Howe. Predictable ranking I know, but we didn't recruit these guys to just decorate the Holden Centre. We want an immediate return on our investment.

 

[Scodog10]

So Moore would be in the VFL and not Best 22 then?

At stages throughout the year he'll play VFL, but as of round 1 he'll be in the senior side. Without any further injuries or incidents all 3 will line up at senior level in round 1, IMO.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Hard to go past Treloar. I think Howe will really add bite to the forward line. Sier will play games this year too.

 

[PicaBoo]

What makes you say that when White was dropped from Round 17 to 22 and Moore played every game except 1 from Round 14 onwards?

Moore is favoured ahead of White now.

White was dropped to make a change coz we had too and it was time for Moore. Cloke's output on the scoreboard was just as putrid though.
White can't play as 1st or 2nd tall. Moore can. Let's all agree on that. But as 3rd White is fast and agile for big bodied player like him and has the tank of a mature player.
Now we got Howe and another ruck extra in the fwd line, so the position for Moore/White would be of a 3rd rather than 2nd tall.
Different discussion and Moore need more development to permanently be better than White. Play Moore from round #1 and watch him fade. It is a long season if we play finals.

 

[sirlothie]

White was dropped to make a change coz we had too and it was time for Moore. Cloke's output on the scoreboard was just as putrid though.
White can't play as 1st or 2nd tall. Moore can. Let's all agree on that. But as 3rd White is fast and agile for big bodied player like him and has the tank of a mature player.
Now we got Howe and another ruck extra in the fwd line, so their position would be of a 3rd rather than 2nd tall.
Different discussion and Moore need more development to permanently be better than White. Play Moore from round #1 and watch him fade. It is a long season if we play finals.

Something has to give as I can't see us play 4 talls in the forward line and I think Witts will get games so if injuries don't play a part competition will be fierce. But Moore is high priority, as long as he is good to go he will get the nod, someone suggested Moore is our 7th forward, that is far from true.

I think Moore nailed down the 2nd tall position last year like Grundy nailed down ruck in his first season. Only burnout or a severe drop in form will see him out of the side (or injury).

 

[Lefthanded]

If he kicks 12.6 instead, yeah. Do you think that season hindered Cloke's progression whilst Rocca did the heavy lifting?

Cloke is still the front man and will be for the foreseeable future so what's wrong with Moore kicking 10-15 goals and spending some time in the VFL?

If he kicked 12.6 from 15 games I'd be a little disappointed as I wish to see growth so I'm after at least 9 games and at least averages of 1 goal, 3.2 marks, 1.8 tackles, 9 disposals per game (his 2015 stats). Not fussed if doesn't have time in ruck so hitouts drop. Will not be end of world if some areas drop off due to limited opportunities (competition for spots) or second year blues but Darcy doesn't strike me as the type for that to be likely. That he had some injury issues last year including a 5 game block from round 5 to 9 means that if he has an uninteruptted run this year I'd be surprised if his 2nd season isn't considerably better than his first.

Cameron's first season with a few more tackles and disposals is probably a good target for Moore in his second, keeping in mind Cameron would have had more than one preseason before his first season given he was taken outside the draft as a 17 year old (I think). They are similar heights, weights and both very talented. http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...=25&pid2=3774&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2012

Conversely I'd be very surprised if Moore plays every game like some seem to expect - doesn't have the fitness base for that and I think it would be stupid to not give him a few rests (VFL or week off during the year).

 

[PicaBoo]

Something has to give as I can't see us play 4 talls in the forward line and I think Witts will get games so if injuries don't play a part competition will be fierce. But Moore is high priority, as long as he is good to go he will get the nod, someone suggested Moore is our 7th forward, that is far from true.

I think Moore nailed down the 2nd tall position last year like Grundy nailed down ruck in his first season. Only burnout or a severe drop in form will see him out of the side (or injury).

Moore as 2nd tall didn't nail it IMHO. Better/ promising than White for sure . But again comparing players for different positions. Let's see if we get the 2 rucks back again first and then we can fill in the rest of the puzzle.

 

[jackcass]

Maynard is an interesting player. I love the physicality he brings to the game, he is a penetrating kick and has courage to try high risk kicks. I felt that when he was body on body he defended well, however he often got caught well off his opponent and gifted many goals. He turned the ball over a bit and didn't win a lot of it. To me that is a player you can work with, but one that has a lot to still work on and not one demanding a spot in the 22.

Our defense is interesting. We have so many options available. However whenever I look at the balance of players back there I can't ever get comfortable with a good mix that covers the oppositions tall and smalls while balancing our teams offensive needs. Your preferred back six for example I think would get badly exposed by small forwards for example, with Williams on the half back flank and Maynard still with plenty to learn as a defender. I think we definitely need at least one of Williams, Ramsay or Toovey at back pocket in a shut down capacity on smalls.

My preferred back line, considering the balance between talls, mediums and smalls, ability to take defensive match ups, their experience levels, and the offensive needs of our team would be something like:

HB: ~ Crisp ~ Reid ~ Langdon
FB: ~ Williams ~ Brown ~ Ramsay

That back line has four really strong rebounders. Crisp, Langdon and Williams can be depended on to get plenty of footy. Reid will always use the footy well The half back line are all accomplished users of the footy. Williams and Ramsay will cover the smalls. Langdon can play as a third tall.

Agree on Maynard. The encouraging thing is that you could actually see incremental improvement each week which bodes well for the future.

 

[jackcass]

Well he won't play as deep as Hogan but TD is right as it stands Moore is ahead in the pecking order of White and the club will be wanting to give Moore every opportunity as hopefully a future marquee forward rather than White an inconsistent 28 year old fringe player.

I see Moore getting the chances White got in 2015 and if White can kick 27 goals in 18 games I'd back Moore to kick 40 in 22.

He's a better mark, kick and probably on par at ground level.

I think to definitively put a ceiling on Moore's output at this stage is stupid and see him having a major role up forward this year and it will take a big slump for him to get dumped because he is the future.

Why do people continually assume potential beats reality. As it stands, White is coming off his best ever season with a 12.4 possession average and 1.5 goal average compared to Moore 9.0 and 1.0. White's worst year over the last 3 season still eclipses those figures. Moore will likely surpass White but it hasn't happened yet, may well in 2016 but there are no guarantees.

I know White has his detractors but he plays a role and that's pretty much what he was recruited for.

And Moore would need a massive step up to get anywhere near a 2.0 goal a game average to kick 40ish goals for the season in 2016. More likely still a couple of pre-seasons away from that sort of output and we should temper our expectations accordingly.

 

[jackcass]

My guess is if Moore plays 20+ games and stays forward which is to be expected, 20 goals will be a bit disappointing, 30 will be a good year and 40 will be a great year.

Remember he played back early and was learning the caper and still managed a goal a game and has shown he is capable of a bag.

Played back for a few weeks at VFL level and for a period in the Port game, and had an occasional run in the ruck but was forward for the remainder

 

[Big Bryza]

Maynard is an interesting player. I love the physicality he brings to the game, he is a penetrating kick and has courage to try high risk kicks. I felt that when he was body on body he defended well, however he often got caught well off his opponent and gifted many goals. He turned the ball over a bit and didn't win a lot of it. To me that is a player you can work with, but one that has a lot to still work on and not one demanding a spot in the 22.

Our defense is interesting. We have so many options available. However whenever I look at the balance of players back there I can't ever get comfortable with a good mix that covers the oppositions tall and smalls while balancing our teams offensive needs. Your preferred back six for example I think would get badly exposed by small forwards for example, with Williams on the half back flank and Maynard still with plenty to learn as a defender. I think we definitely need at least one of Williams, Ramsay or Toovey at back pocket in a shut down capacity on smalls.

My preferred back line, considering the balance between talls, mediums and smalls, ability to take defensive match ups, their experience levels, and the offensive needs of our team would be something like:

HB: ~ Crisp ~ Reid ~ Langdon
FB: ~ Williams ~ Brown ~ Ramsay

That back line has four really strong rebounders. Crisp, Langdon and Williams can be depended on to get plenty of footy. Reid will always use the footy well The half back line are all accomplished users of the footy. Williams and Ramsay will cover the smalls. Langdon can play as a third tall.

I can't recall Crispy playing in defence last year. After finishing top 3 BnF as a mid in 2015, I can't see him moving down back in 2016.

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

My guess is if Moore plays 20+ games and stays forward which is to be expected, 20 goals will be a bit disappointing, 30 will be a good year and 40 will be a great year.

Remember he played back early and was learning the caper and still managed a goal a game and has shown he is capable of a bag.

Using some recent soon to be gun forwards as an example its a bit 'over expectant' to be hoping for 30+ goals from a second year forward, most players seem to stick around that 20 mark and how many of them are in winning teams?

Some examples:
Franklin: 14 games 31 goals
Cameron: 21 games 62 goals
N Riewoldt: 22 games 21 goals
J Riewoldt : 18 Games 18 goals
M Pavlich : 21 games 28 goals
J Roughead: 20 Games 12 goals
T Walker: 18 games 35 goals
T Hawkins: 10 Games 13 goals
T Cloke: 15 Games 6 goals

or some retirees
Brendan Fevola: 14 games 26 goals
Wayne Carey: 21 games 38 goals
Jon Brown: 25 games 38 goals
Warren Tredrea: 17 Games 33 goals

Im not going to be unhappy if he kicks 20 and player 15-20 games ...

 

[Quicky]

I can't recall Crispy playing in defence last year.

He didn't but that shouldn't invalidate the idea.

After finishing top 3 BnF as a mid in 2015, I can't see him moving down back in 2016.

I don't think he will either but I think the coaching staff should be thinking about it. I think he could address a real list need back there.

 

[sirlothie]

Using some recent soon to be gun forwards as an example its a bit 'over expectant' to be hoping for 30+ goals from a second year forward, most players seem to stick around that 20 mark and how many of them are in winning teams?

Some examples:
Franklin: 14 games 31 goals
Cameron: 21 games 62 goals
N Riewoldt: 22 games 21 goals
J Riewoldt : 18 Games 18 goals
M Pavlich : 21 games 28 goals
J Roughead: 20 Games 12 goals
T Walker: 18 games 35 goals
T Hawkins: 10 Games 13 goals
T Cloke: 15 Games 6 goals

or some retirees
Brendan Fevola: 14 games 26 goals
Wayne Carey: 21 games 38 goals
Jon Brown: 25 games 38 goals
Warren Tredrea: 17 Games 33 goals

Im not going to be unhappy if he kicks 20 and player 15-20 games ...

Yeah as I said 20 would be a good return and I expect him to kick 1-2 a game and get donuts sometimes but I can also see him kicking a bag or 2 and reaching that 30 mark or even surpassing expectations and kicking 2-3 regularly.

This will be an interesting duscussion to revisit at the end of this year.

Some of those stats surprised me, I don't recall Trav kicking only 6 for a season. Of your examples most are above 20 and a few above 30 so it could go either way.

 

[Big Bryza]

He didn't but that shouldn't invalidate the idea.



I don't think he will either but I think the coaching staff should be thinking about it. I think he could address a real list need back there.

I disagree. He's too good at the role he plays through the midfield to be playing off half back. It negates his strengths IMO.

 

[Big Bryza]

Using some recent soon to be gun forwards as an example its a bit 'over expectant' to be hoping for 30+ goals from a second year forward, most players seem to stick around that 20 mark and how many of them are in winning teams?

Some examples:
Franklin: 14 games 31 goals
Cameron: 21 games 62 goals
N Riewoldt: 22 games 21 goals
J Riewoldt : 18 Games 18 goals
M Pavlich : 21 games 28 goals
J Roughead: 20 Games 12 goals
T Walker: 18 games 35 goals
T Hawkins: 10 Games 13 goals
T Cloke: 15 Games 6 goals

or some retirees
Brendan Fevola: 14 games 26 goals
Wayne Carey: 21 games 38 goals
Jon Brown: 25 games 38 goals
Warren Tredrea: 17 Games 33 goals

Im not going to be unhappy if he kicks 20 and player 15-20 games ...

Yep, if Darcy can play 15 games and kick 20 then that'll be a good season.

 

[iGNITER]

Treloar for mine.

However I really think Howe will add a bit to the side and become a serious cog in our 22.

 

[legendstatus]

New, new to Collingwood or almost new - future looking good.

Moore, Howe, Treloar, Aish, Marsh, Gegoey, Greenwood, Reid, Sinclair, Ramsay


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Quicky]

I disagree. He's too good at the role he plays through the midfield to be playing off half back. It negates his strengths IMO.

I think he has the strengths to play both roles to a high standard. It would rob the team of quality through midfield no doubt. But we have a surplus of high quality players there (Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom, Adams, Greenwood, DeGoey, Aish) especially at inside midfield.

 

[Anzacday]

Dave I thought this was a thread about our players.
I Like Seedy but he plays for the Crows now and I couldn't give a stuff about another club.

 

[TradeDraft]

Dave I thought this was a thread about our players.
I Like Seedy but he plays for the Crows now and I couldn't give a stuff about another club.

WHOOPS - WRONG Thread