Which team is in the most trouble replacing its aging players? - 2020 edition

Which team is in the most trouble replacing its aging players?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 54 12.6%
  • Brisbane

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Carlton

    Votes: 14 3.3%
  • Collingwood

    Votes: 49 11.4%
  • Essendon

    Votes: 19 4.4%
  • Fremantle

    Votes: 5 1.2%
  • Geelong

    Votes: 220 51.3%
  • Gold Coast

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • GWS

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 90 21.0%
  • Melbourne

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • North Melbourne

    Votes: 16 3.7%
  • Port Adelaide

    Votes: 14 3.3%
  • Richmond

    Votes: 22 5.1%
  • St Kilda

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Sydney

    Votes: 21 4.9%
  • West Coast

    Votes: 32 7.5%
  • Western Bulldogs

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    429

Boyd oh Boyd

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Nov 29, 2018
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Has it been freed up though?

There is a lot of different people saying different things about ramifications of Rance retiring when and how he did.

My understanding is deadline for list management was Dec 2. Richmond are now committed to Rance's 2020 salary (which was apparently 800K).
Technically Rance is breaking contract so they don't have to pay him anything. He'll be getting payed something because they'll want to look after him but it won't be the whole amount.
 

Capriati

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Technically Rance is breaking contract so they don't have to pay him anything. He'll be getting payed something because they'll want to look after him but it won't be the whole amount.
That is only one part (player contract).

The other element is Richmonds obligation to have their list management and salary cap allocations to the AFL by the deadline of December 2, and Richmond's TPP submission to the AFL on would have included Rance's salary for the year, and from what I understand, that can now no longer be changed.

If you have any relevant information, feel free to post it to clarify.
 

Boyd oh Boyd

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That is only one part (player contract).

The other element is Richmonds obligation to have their list management and salary cap allocations to the AFL by the deadline of December 2, and Richmond's TPP submission to the AFL on would have included Rance's salary for the year, and from what I understand, that can now no longer be changed.

If you have any relevant information, feel free to post it to clarify.
Only that Tom Boyd retired in May and only received a partial payment for 2019. Not sure what happens to the rest of that money though. I'd have to guess the club can use it otherwise there's no reason to not just give it to the player.
 

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Capriati

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Aug 25, 2019
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Only that Tom Boyd retired in May and only received a partial payment for 2019. Not sure what happens to the rest of that money though. I'd have to guess the club can use it otherwise there's no reason to not just give it to the player.
I have seen the boyd situation cited by a few folks and it is true that him walking away in May 2019 mean that the Bulldogs had extra salary cap space for 2020/2021 that was allocated to Boyd's contract.
 

WillHayward

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Aug 13, 2018
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One interesting thing is the importance of the key fwd in winning a flag.
That is only one part (player contract).

The other element is Richmonds obligation to have their list management and salary cap allocations to the AFL by the deadline of December 2, and Richmond's TPP submission to the AFL on would have included Rance's salary for the year, and from what I understand, that can now no longer be changed.

If you have any relevant information, feel free to post it to clarify.
Yep. He will have to remain on the books for 2020 as far as SC goes.

But he will be off the books for 2021, which will help Richmond because they can go hard on either re-signing young talent or speaking to free agents for 2021.
They can essentially go harder on list management from the get go.
 

Jobe Watson

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Excuse me for my honesty, but after considering things I still think Hawthorn are in big trouble here. I think they are going to have the most trouble replacing their many, many old players.

Just my humble opinion.
 

telsor

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Aug 29, 2004
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That is only one part (player contract).

The other element is Richmonds obligation to have their list management and salary cap allocations to the AFL by the deadline of December 2, and Richmond's TPP submission to the AFL on would have included Rance's salary for the year, and from what I understand, that can now no longer be changed.

If you have any relevant information, feel free to post it to clarify.

Can't say with certainty, but I dare say the AFLPA wouldn't like the idea of less money going to players (This could take Richmond below the minimum!), and a player retiring at this point of the year is highly unlikely to receive full pay, so I think it's a fair assumption that it could be redirected.

As for the Dec 2 'deadline', that isn't set in stone either. Even without cases like this, player payments vary due to match payments, injuries, performance bonuses and the like.

As an example though...Last year, Grigg retired mid year, allowing Richmond a spot on their list in the mid season draft. The club was also probably fairly close to salary cap limit, so unless that freed up some cap space, there is a fair chance they wouldn't have been able to fit another player under the cap anyway (even a half year of minimum wage could still be a stretch after all).


All in all, I'd say it's highly likely that some space if freed up and can be redirected elsewhere.
 

telsor

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It would probably increase their off field soft cap for the year
I doubt the AFLPA would be OK with that. They didn't fight for a minimum cap only for some of it to go to coaches (etc) on a fairly regular basis (mid season retirement isn't all that unusual after all).
 

Capriati

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Can't say with certainty, but I dare say the AFLPA wouldn't like the idea of less money going to players (This could take Richmond below the minimum!), and a player retiring at this point of the year is highly unlikely to receive full pay, so I think it's a fair assumption that it could be redirected.

As for the Dec 2 'deadline', that isn't set in stone either. Even without cases like this, player payments vary due to match payments, injuries, performance bonuses and the like.

As an example though...Last year, Grigg retired mid year, allowing Richmond a spot on their list in the mid season draft. The club was also probably fairly close to salary cap limit, so unless that freed up some cap space, there is a fair chance they wouldn't have been able to fit another player under the cap anyway (even a half year of minimum wage could still be a stretch after all).


All in all, I'd say it's highly likely that some space if freed up and can be redirected elsewhere.
I understand your point but it doesn’t really answer what is happening with rance’s salary.

Match payments are already factored in to players contracts, the players who are solidly in best 22 have an amount which includes match payments and fringe/outside 22 have salary + match payments/incentives.

Given that the club pushed Grigg to retire early to free up a list spot I doubt they also withheld payments they were obligated to pay through his player contract. As a mid year rookie Pickett would have been on pretty low wages, around 75K. Would be surprised if a club didn’t have a sore 75K in their cap to cover unforeseen circumstances (such as injury).

We still don’t know the answer to what happens to rances salary in 2020.


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the Ziebull

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Excuse me for my honesty, but after considering things I still think Hawthorn are in big trouble here. I think they are going to have the most trouble replacing their many, many old players.

Just my humble opinion.
I think they will be fine, Burgoyne will probably retire end of next year but I’m expecting his output to drop anyway so won’t take much to replace him

Other than that really only Frawley/Puopolo who need replacing soon. And I think both are very replaceable

Compare this to the swans Buddy, Rampe, Kennedy and Sinclair they are going to be in strife and for me are missing that middle age group range

For me they are lacking big in the 22-28 age bracket
 

parsons nose

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I think they will be fine, Burgoyne will probably retire end of next year but I’m expecting his output to drop anyway so won’t take much to replace him

Other than that really only Frawley/Puopolo who need replacing soon. And I think both are very replaceable

Compare this to the swans Buddy, Rampe, Kennedy and Sinclair they are going to be in strife and for me are missing that middle age group range

For me they are lacking big in the 22-28 age bracket
Don’t take Jobe too seriously. He only posts when he’s drunk.
 

telsor

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I understand your point but it doesn’t really answer what is happening with rance’s salary.

Match payments are already factored in to players contracts, the players who are solidly in best 22 have an amount which includes match payments and fringe/outside 22 have salary + match payments/incentives.

Given that the club pushed Grigg to retire early to free up a list spot I doubt they also withheld payments they were obligated to pay through his player contract. As a mid year rookie Pickett would have been on pretty low wages, around 75K. Would be surprised if a club didn’t have a sore 75K in their cap to cover unforeseen circumstances (such as injury).

We still don’t know the answer to what happens to rances salary in 2020.

No, we don't know for sure...I think I was fairly clear on that.

But don't forget, this is a long way from a unique situation...Sure it's a bigger salary and earlier in the year than usual, but multiple players resign early every year.... The AFL, clubs, and AFLPA would be well on top of the situation and it's ramifications, and all parties would be happy to have most if not all of the money 'saved' redirected to other players....When all parties involved are in favor of a particular outcome, it's a reasonable assumption that that would be what happens.
 

Freomaniac

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Hardly surprising....
Freo supporters and West Coast. Name a more iconic duo.
First squad you thought of due to the fact they are from Perth, but WC are no where near it. Same thing was said when Mitchell and Priddis left (we had much bigger holes then) We made the GF the year after.

Kennedy and Hurn the only ones on verge of retiring. Kennedy has a ton of forwards around him and Hurn has some of the best in the business around him. Don't really see how that will leave massive holes. Will be a dent, but far from being the most troubling team in the comp. Not even close. Take one look at the Hawks squad.
Well alot of people, eagles supporters escpecially copped and bagged freo for giving a 32 year old Hayden Ballantyne and a 36 year old Aaron Sandilands a contract for the 2019 season. Freo traded their future 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks in 2018 which left freo with only a 1st, 5th, 6th and 7th rounder before the 2018 trade period. you aint gonna cull a list when you only got 4 draft picks.

Then freo got busy in the 2018 trade period.

As I have said, both were depth players in 2019. Ballantyne only played 3 games, Sandilands played 6 games. Perfect timing as Sean Darcy was developed from 2017-19.... Its 2020. Sandilands is retired, Darcy is 21-22 years old and is next in line.

Ballantyne is gone, Matera, Walters and switkowski are rotating those 2 forward pocket spots.
 

Pessimistic

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We have an entire thread already on hawthorn. Many are predicting a ladder dive this season

therefore draft picks will be early so less trouble replacing aging players.
You guys can’t argue both ways
 

Rich01

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I understand your point but it doesn’t really answer what is happening with rance’s salary.

Match payments are already factored in to players contracts, the players who are solidly in best 22 have an amount which includes match payments and fringe/outside 22 have salary + match payments/incentives.

Given that the club pushed Grigg to retire early to free up a list spot I doubt they also withheld payments they were obligated to pay through his player contract. As a mid year rookie Pickett would have been on pretty low wages, around 75K. Would be surprised if a club didn’t have a sore 75K in their cap to cover unforeseen circumstances (such as injury).

We still don’t know the answer to what happens to rances salary in 2020.


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It’s an interesting point you raise and one I was interested in since Rance retired. I can’t find (admittedly can’t be arsed) finding any afl documentation regarding reallocating a players salary after the Dec 2 deadline, but according to some close to the club on another forum, this money can be dispersed amongst the playing group that was submitted in the last list lodgement for 2020. I’d imagine a couple of contracts may be paid out a little more in 2020 (Dusty, Riewoldt, Cotchin come to mind) or a couple of youngsters contract extended and frontloaded. Apparently there is also the ability for them not to pay this money to anyone in 2020 and allocate it to 2021, but not sure how this works. It looks likely we will use that money to retain the list and perhaps bring in a quality player at the end of next year.
 

Capriati

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It’s an interesting point you raise and one I was interested in since Rance retired. I can’t find (admittedly can’t be arsed) finding any afl documentation regarding reallocating a players salary after the Dec 2 deadline, but according to some close to the club on another forum, this money can be dispersed amongst the playing group that was submitted in the last list lodgement for 2020. I’d imagine a couple of contracts may be paid out a little more in 2020 (Dusty, Riewoldt, Cotchin come to mind) or a couple of youngsters contract extended and frontloaded. Apparently there is also the ability for them not to pay this money to anyone in 2020 and allocate it to 2021, but not sure how this works. It looks likely we will use that money to retain the list and perhaps bring in a quality player at the end of next year.
Yeah, that would make sense. All I know is that the salary cap floor is 95% (minimum salary spend) each year and anything between 95-100% can be banked and rolled forward.


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matey

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Really worried on how Hawks will replace Wingard, Tom, JOM, Worpel, Siss, Hardwick, Impey, Finn, Frost, Patton, Lewis, Day, Scrimshaw when they all call it a day.

Hoping that Burgs and Hendo will play for another 5 years to see us through until the next crop come through.

Hawks don’t rely on its ageing players anymore ..... do people still think that Hodge/Mitchell/Lewis/Rough/Gibbo are still wearing the brown and gold!
 
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Coaster2012

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Well alot of people, eagles supporters escpecially copped and bagged freo for giving a 32 year old Hayden Ballantyne and a 36 year old Aaron Sandilands a contract for the 2019 season. Freo traded their future 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks in 2018 which left freo with only a 1st, 5th, 6th and 7th rounder before the 2018 trade period. you aint gonna cull a list when you only got 4 draft picks.

Then freo got busy in the 2018 trade period.

As I have said, both were depth players in 2019. Ballantyne only played 3 games, Sandilands played 6 games. Perfect timing as Sean Darcy was developed from 2017-19.... Its 2020. Sandilands is retired, Darcy is 21-22 years old and is next in line.

Ballantyne is gone, Matera, Walters and switkowski are rotating those 2 forward pocket spots.
Not sure why you quoted my post. I didn't even mention Freo so why are you telling me all this?
 

Jobe Watson

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Don’t take Jobe too seriously. He only posts when he’s drunk.
Wow, kinda rude. I'm sorry but my honest opinion is that Hawthorn are going to struggle. I apologise and I don't mean to cause any offence. I'm just trying to engage in a discussion here by giving my humble thoughts on Hawthorn's prospects and, I'm sorry to say, they don't look too great. I don't like saying it but it's just how I see things. It's just my opinion and I'm sorry if you disagree with me. Merry Christmas to you and your family.
 

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