Which team is in the most trouble replacing its aging players? - 2020 edition

[Grrr]

Pessimistic raised a good point though. It is strange to see Tiger's in here saying that 2019 showed they can win without their older star players considering the period that they were all out coincided with the Tigers spluttering a bit in the period before the bye and were outside the 8 with a percentage below 100.

You're right in that that retirements don't all happen in one go, but Richmond have 4 players, Rance, Houli, Riewoldt and Cotchin who are important to their structure and closely grouped together by age. 2019 showed that the back six can be a great unit without Rance, so that would probably ease many tigers supporters about the idea of Rance potentially retiring when his contract is up in 2021.

I'm not that familiar with the Richmond list outside of their best 22. Who are the young players on their list that could step up in the next couple years to take over from Cotchin, Houli, Riewoldt and Rance over the medium term, or do you think that they could fill the gaps luring FA's over the next couple of years?


FWIW I don't think Richmonds age profile will have an impact on their 2020 season, looking beyond that though will be interesting to see how the list transitions to a new batch of players.

Regarding your first point, you noted we sputtered during our injuries, but I though playing 1st and 2nd year players Stack, Ross, Naish, Baker, Eggmolesse-Smith, Balta, ColemanJones, Bolton, Garthwaite and Chol, most of which were playing their first few games, many at once, is going to make you stumble somewhat.

Players that will take us forward, Stack is already a beauty, Bolton has x factor to burn, Ross was getting 25+possessions in the midfield before he was injured. Balta's is raw but he is already a cult figure due to his athleticism. Coleman Jones is very promising ruckman. 18 year old Collier-Dawkins is a 193cm midfielder with explosive pace and a real hard edge was my BOG in the VFL final. Premiership players like Short, Broad, Baker and Graham are not in my best 22. Our VFL won the Premiership

I have been watching Richmond forever and have never seen such depth at the club. Pickett is a handy addition.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Im not saying richmond are in trouble age wise, but to say they are OK without their stars is over optimistic.

up till round 15 they occupied the same mid table slots 6-12 that is being used to prove hawthorns ‘medicrity’

Thats pretty good for a Richmond fan with lingering nightmares/demons from our awful period. Even now with our recent success, when a drop inevitably comes as it does for all teams, if we end up in that bracket I'll be pleased. I've seen two GFs. No need to get too greedy.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

4 of the top 6 were 24yo and under. Other two JOM 25yo and Henderson 31yo ...... Hawks no longer rely on their ageing premiership stars. A new dawn begins!

I do hope so. I like seeing the hawks up and about.

 

[4THAWN]

I do hope so. I like seeing the hawks up and about.

you're not allowed to say that

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Pessimistic raised a good point though. It is strange to see Tiger's in here saying that 2019 showed they can win without their older star players considering the period that they were all out coincided with the Tigers spluttering a bit in the period before the bye and were outside the 8 with a percentage below 100.

You're right in that that retirements don't all happen in one go, but Richmond have 4 players, Rance, Houli, Riewoldt and Cotchin who are important to their structure and closely grouped together by age. 2019 showed that the back six can be a great unit without Rance, so that would probably ease many tigers supporters about the idea of Rance potentially retiring when his contract is up in 2021.

I'm not that familiar with the Richmond list outside of their best 22. Who are the young players on their list that could step up in the next couple years to take over from Cotchin, Houli, Riewoldt and Rance over the medium term, or do you think that they could fill the gaps luring FA's over the next couple of years?


FWIW I don't think Richmonds age profile will have an impact on their 2020 season, looking beyond that though will be interesting to see how the list transitions to a new batch of players.

Yeah we did splutter a bit, but we didn't put in any GC like efforts or play like we used to when we lost every week. The kids busted their arses to win, and even when losing still looked good. Obviously every supporter is going to think their injuries and predicaments are the worst, and I'm not saying ours was the worse, but it's been the closet I've come to hitting the panic button when we were without rance, cotch, jack and Co. I didn't think we were a chance, but the kids really gave me and every tiger fan hope that Richmond isn't just the stars. Every fan is most familiar with their own teams youth, so I guess you'll just have to take tigger fans words for it when they say we have promising youth, and when the spuds reveal themselves we can all have a laugh at the silly Richmond supporters that believed too much haha.

To put it simply, the tiger kids just made us all believe. Whether based in fact or fantasy we don't know. Whether they will ever come good, we don't know. But we believe. More than ever.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

you're not allowed to say that

* the hawks then hey. Bloody umpires pets....

 

[AjsGuns]

Not sure if I agree that Geelong's youth are "terrible".

I like Clark, Miers and Constable. Reckon all will be best 22 for a long time. Wouldn't be surprised if one of those 3 turn out to be a gun, with the other 2 as 200+ gamers.

Narkle was like their best player in one of the finals, needs to find consistency.

Personally, don't rate Parfitt but I know others do.

 

[Grrr]

Not sure if I agree that Geelong's youth are "terrible".

I like Clark, Miers and Constable. Reckon all will be best 22 for a long time. Wouldn't be surprised if one of those 3 turn out to be a gun, with the other 2 as 200+ gamers.

Narkle was like their best player in one of the finals, needs to find consistency.

Personally, don't rate Parfitt but I know others do.

Clarke looks a ripper.

 

[AjsGuns]

Clarke looks a ripper.

Fairly sure Clark didn't have a preseason either, meaning his had no preseason in the AFL and still played 18 games as an 18yr old kid with no preparation. Will be a very good player, top 15 from the 2018 draft are looking like rippers.

 

[WillHayward]

Hawthorn look in real trouble here. Just my opinion.

Hawks, Cats, Bombers and Pies all in strife imo.

How Dodoro escapes scrutiny is baffling. His performance for a decade or more has been appalling.

 

[Ambrosia]

Hawks, Cats, Bombers and Pies all in strife imo.

How Dodoro escapes scrutiny is baffling. His performance for a decade or more has been appalling.

Can see how Essendon could be in strife as far as being stuck in no mans land but I don’t see us bottoming out anytime sooN

 

[gingernuts]

The cats were doing better earlier this year when scott played the young ones.Now we look forward to Taylor, Ablett, Henderson,Touhey etc. Jenkins (sigh)
This recipe will not win a premiership. Chris Scott trying to protect his win loss ratio.

 

[WillHayward]

Colingwood - need a key fwd.
Essendon - Will need to replace Hurley and Hooker
Hawks - Might be ok. Too early to call.
Cats - Selwood, Dangerfield, Taylor, Hawkins. This will be a real challenge but they are attacking the draft big time in 2020 so could be ok.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Didn't realise Simpson was nearly 36. Doesn't seem that old..

 

[RUNVS]

Didn't realise Simpson was nearly 36. Doesn't seem that old..

I really wanted Carlton to recruit Flanders.

 

[HTPunter]

Some slow down at 28 and some at 30.

Its an arbitrary number. Which makes any analysis essentially pointless.

If someone actually researched and found the age where soft tissue injuries became far more likely, and the age where retirement (not delisting) became far more likely, then you would have the basis for a discussion.

I don't see any other thread that has that level of research behind it, plenty of Hawks fans happy to comment on lots of other topics without deep statistically and scientifically significant research as the basis of discussion.

 

[HTT]

Im not saying richmond are in trouble age wise, but to say they are OK without their stars is over optimistic.

up till round 15 they occupied the same mid table slots 6-12 that is being used to prove hawthorns ‘medicrity’

After 10 games we were 7-3 and right in the thick of it. A genuine contender, mosty driven by our youth.

In the next 3 we were a bottom 4 calibre team. The kids we had filling gaps were cooked.

Lesson? The kids aren’t ready to play a full season yet. But when they are, they’ll be pretty damn good at it.

Mind you to call Hawthorn ‘mediocre’ is a massive stretch. Clearly hampered by the loss of Mitchell early in the season which ultimately cost them a finals spot, but by the end of the year it was pretty clear they’d worked it out, and were arguably better than some teams that made it. Will be significantly better for it in 2020.

 

[Swansujelly]

Those players are already in the team

Who comes in ready to replace buddy, rampe, Kennedy, Sinclair in say 2-3 years time

Maybe Gould for rampe
Stephens for kennedy
What about Sinclair and buddy

You can’t replace Buddy, and Sinclair? Gives his all but hardly irreplaceable, MacLean, who we picked up mid season draft looks promising in that role.

 

[WWSD]

poor hawks ....can;t face reality they aren't that relevant anymore. take out their 9.5k four game launceston members and suddenly all those numbers don;t look so rosy.

Stack is a gun and quoting b and F results from a struggling club isn;t relevant a half of the hawks team wouldn't get a game at the tigers....party's over guys!

Geelong lost to a struggling Box Hill team.

 

[Swansujelly]

How old was Scott Jeffries in 2016?

 

[Grrr]

Fairly sure Clark didn't have a preseason either, meaning his had no preseason in the AFL and still played 18 games as an 18yr old kid with no preparation. Will be a very good player, top 15 from the 2018 draft are looking like rippers.

Only injury cut him short.

 

[HairyO]

I don't see any other thread that has that level of research behind it, plenty of Hawks fans happy to comment on lots of other topics without deep statistically and scientifically significant research as the basis of discussion.

Im looking for any research.

List age is the #1 favourite for discussion on BF yet there appears to be zero foundation for any of it.

Our age drops by half a year if we remove Burgoyne. Would that make us better ?

 

[Pessimistic]

I don't see any other thread that has that level of research behind it, plenty of Hawks fans happy to comment on lots of other topics without deep statistically and scientifically significant research as the basis of discussion.

The OP didnt make their case either. Just listed names (some wrong) with ages. It inferred something which is not proven

 

[StillAtLarge]

Hawthorn look in real trouble here. Just my opinion.

Love your pessimism (double denim will do that to the best of us) but our biggest loss in 2019 was an even 6 goals against the eventual premiers. We thrashed the runners up (twice), broke even with West Coast and Geelong and narrowly beat Collingwood.
A fit Mitchell will make a huge difference to our midfield and I can see Frost blossoming into a really dour, dependable CHB, in turn freeing up Sicily.
Our kids (Worpel, Scrimshaw, Mitch Lewis) stood up on numerous occasions in big games and all will benefit from the return/recruitment of senior peers.
If that Geelong team can top the h&a ladder there's no reason why we can't push for top 4 in 2020

 

[bluespooner]

Shaun Burgoyne is the oldest player on that list and based on 2019 form looks like he could play beyond 2020.
Just goes to show that if you have class and exquisite ball skills then age is not so important.