Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[kirbatron]

My own effort at rating the under 23 Hawthorn AFL talent on 2022 season form (min. 2 AFL games):

A:
D. Moore - Averaging 20 and 2, plenty of tackles and has coaches votes in half the games this year. Probably in the AA squad (or even team) on the season to date.
J. Newcombe - Has developed into our best mid so far this year with great numbers in score involvements, goal assists, metres gained and inside 50's, underlining his impact
M. Lewis - Another who has taken big strides and was 2nd in the Coleman before injury and was 1st in the league for contested marks.

B+:
J. Scrimshaw - Arguably Hawthorn's most underrated player, Scrimshaw has been shutting down taller opponents, getting plenty of it himself and using it very well. Aside from his early injury sub vs Carlton, he is averaging 21 possessions a game and is one of the leading interceptors in the comp.
C. Jiath - Jiath has had an interesting season so far in that he has had 2 BOG's, 1 'mixed bag' (Plenty of intercepting and rebound but some clangers and opponent cut him up) and 1 poor game (2 missed through injury). Very damaging as a quality interceptor and rebounder in one at his best.

B:
Kochitzke - Started the year in the VFL and was poor on his return in Round 5, where he was partially used as a bit part ruck. Kicked 7 goals in 2 games since, including 4 against the unbeaten premiers. Hopefully he can maintain his impact with Lewis in the side after a breakout as a key forward last year.
Reeves - Has been very good in the ruck and makes a big difference to our clearance numbers. Has lacked impact around the ground, especially the first couple of weeks.
Morrisson - Underrated foot soldier that does his job and is neat and clean. Probably has a ceiling of 'B' but is evasive and clever enough to always warrant a spot. All clubs need these types.
McDonald, Ward, DGB - All earlyish draft picks getting regular opportunities. All are having quiet quarters and highly impactful quarters. All have been contributing well enough to maintain their spot.

C+:
Lynch - Has looked ok, jumped all over Gawn and has been holding his own in the ruck. Not a lot of around the ground influence and may be better suited to being 2nd ruck? once this part of his game grows.
Nash - Hawthorn fans will not like seeing him down here. Yes, he is a big body, he tackles hard and has been asked to ruck amidst a shortage. Hawthorn's fast, attacking style does not suit his poor ball use, however, where multiple attacking forays break down when Hawthorn have a clear path to goal after Nash misses the target. Dump kicks forward were OK in a congested game style but it has hurt this season. Was also belted in the ruck, especially against Ladhams which was pivotal in the last. His job on Oliver last week was great and elevated him to a C+.

C:
Worpel - Disappointing start to the year. 5 touches against St. Kilda and then dropped was the low point. 26 touches and a goal against the reigning premiers last week saved his grade from being even lower. Hopefully it's a turning point.
Maginness - Great athlete who is strong, fast and super fit. But his decision making and ball use is poor, especially by foot. Take the criticism of Nash above and double it (so many goal scoring opportunities result in turnovers and scores the other way). Fantastic job on Langdon prevented a lower rating and was a perfect niche role as there is no way Langdon was going to be able to "blow him up" as the commentators kept suggesting (Magginess ended up with covering more ground, #1 on the ground). A role where he can run all day, prevent an opponent from getting it and not need to get it himself is ideal.

(Bramble and Callow not rated with only 1 game)

Will Day?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

My own effort at rating the under 23 Hawthorn AFL talent on 2022 season form (min. 2 AFL games):

A:
D. Moore - Averaging 20 and 2, plenty of tackles and has coaches votes in half the games this year. Probably in the AA squad (or even team) on the season to date.
J. Newcombe - Has developed into our best mid so far this year with great numbers in score involvements, goal assists, metres gained and inside 50's, underlining his impact
M. Lewis - Another who has taken big strides and was 2nd in the Coleman before injury and was 1st in the league for contested marks.

B+:
J. Scrimshaw - Arguably Hawthorn's most underrated player, Scrimshaw has been shutting down taller opponents, getting plenty of it himself and using it very well. Aside from his early injury sub vs Carlton, he is averaging 21 possessions a game and is one of the leading interceptors in the comp.
C. Jiath - Jiath has had an interesting season so far in that he has had 2 BOG's, 1 'mixed bag' (Plenty of intercepting and rebound but some clangers and opponent cut him up) and 1 poor game (2 missed through injury). Very damaging as a quality interceptor and rebounder in one at his best.

B:
Kochitzke - Started the year in the VFL and was poor on his return in Round 5, where he was partially used as a bit part ruck. Kicked 7 goals in 2 games since, including 4 against the unbeaten premiers. Hopefully he can maintain his impact with Lewis in the side after a breakout as a key forward last year.
Reeves - Has been very good in the ruck and makes a big difference to our clearance numbers. Has lacked impact around the ground, especially the first couple of weeks.
Morrisson - Underrated foot soldier that does his job and is neat and clean. Probably has a ceiling of 'B' but is evasive and clever enough to always warrant a spot. All clubs need these types.
McDonald, Ward, DGB - All earlyish draft picks getting regular opportunities. All are having quiet quarters and highly impactful quarters. All have been contributing well enough to maintain their spot.

C+:
Lynch - Has looked ok, jumped all over Gawn and has been holding his own in the ruck. Not a lot of around the ground influence and may be better suited to being 2nd ruck? once this part of his game grows.
Nash - Hawthorn fans will not like seeing him down here. Yes, he is a big body, he tackles hard and has been asked to ruck amidst a shortage. Hawthorn's fast, attacking style does not suit his poor ball use, however, where multiple attacking forays break down when Hawthorn have a clear path to goal after Nash misses the target. Dump kicks forward were OK in a congested game style but it has hurt this season. Was also belted in the ruck, especially against Ladhams which was pivotal in the last. His job on Oliver last week was great and elevated him to a C+.

C:
Worpel - Disappointing start to the year. 5 touches against St. Kilda and then dropped was the low point. 26 touches and a goal against the reigning premiers last week saved his grade from being even lower. Hopefully it's a turning point.
Maginness - Great athlete who is strong, fast and super fit. But his decision making and ball use is poor, especially by foot. Take the criticism of Nash above and double it (so many goal scoring opportunities result in turnovers and scores the other way). Fantastic job on Langdon prevented a lower rating and was a perfect niche role as there is no way Langdon was going to be able to "blow him up" as the commentators kept suggesting (Magginess ended up with covering more ground, #1 on the ground). A role where he can run all day, prevent an opponent from getting it and not need to get it himself is ideal.

(Bramble and Callow not rated with only 1 game)

Day?

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Sure but you can’t keep claiming to have such great young talent and also be crying for a hand out.

If you have the talent you just need to be patient and develop them.

The Youth at North isn't the problem, it's coaching and player development panel and 25 years and older group mainly

Kids like Jason Horne-Francis (and Sam Walsh) are very rare breeds, young studs who display clear future leadership potential only a few games into their career.

Can you honestly name right now who North's next captain will be (JH-F will be someday but too soon)

I can't think of any medium term choice right now

 

[Blackhawk42]

The Youth at North isn't the problem, it's coaching and player development panel and 25 years and older group mainly

Kids like Jason Horne-Francis (and Sam Walsh) are very rare breeds, young studs who display clear future leadership potential only a few games into their career.

Can you honestly name right now who North's next captain will be (JH-F will be someday but too soon)

I can't think of any medium term choice right now

I believe Jy Simpkin is the favourite.

 

[master bate]

I’m still taking North based on JHF and TT being special and the bonus of a solid key forwards in Larkey. You just can’t put a price of truly special talent. But geez are some of the other kids falling by the wayside as they trudge on in a bad side.

The way things are going North are going to have to overpay to bring a new wave of veterans to support their youth.

The Hawks need 1-2 game breakers and some fringe upgrades. Their biggest issue is hoping a game breaking talent falls to their draft pick. But they’re in a position to get aggressive at the draft and find the guys they need this year or next. In many ways that’s a safer bet than being where North is.

 

[theiaofseed]

I’m still taking North based on JHF and TT being special and the bonus of a solid key forwards in Larkey. You just can’t put a price of truly special talent. But geez are some of the other kids falling by the wayside as they trudge on in a bad side.

The way things are going North are going to have to overpay to bring a new wave of veterans to support their youth.

The Hawks need 1-2 game breakers and some fringe upgrades. Their biggest issue is hoping a game breaking talent falls to their draft pick. But they’re in a position to get aggressive at the draft and find the guys they need this year or next. In many ways that’s a safer bet than being where North is.

What has Tarryn Thomas ever done to be stamped with the "special" tag?

 

[TheUnicorn]

Do North deserve a priority pick?

Do you think North deserve a priority pick? Gold Coast are the most recent team to receive a priority pick, having received a comprehensive assistance/rescue package by the AFL after a dreadful run in their first years in the comp. Recently, Carlton were pressured externally to apply for a...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Will Day?

Day?

Ahh, crud. Knew I'd forget someone - cheers. Now added.

 

[VinnieB]

Still can't believe North's 2020 picks 1 and 2 can't get a game in this team. Just dire!

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I am hoping to get an email on Monday announcing that Noble has been sacked. We are going backwards ffs.

 

[Dangerousfield]

50% of responders to this thread thought North had the best youth.

But that can't be the case if their supporters are pleading for a PP, so 50% of responders must be idiots!

 

[almuz]

Changing my vote to North

 

[Bojan KantKick]

If you suck again this year it’s on Noble.

Media already starting to ask questions of him and his selections.

You were spot on with this. We are going backwards ffs

 

[SSSSSS]

Thomas, Simpkin and LDU have gone backwards at an alarming rate.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Thomas, Simpkin and LDU have gone backwards at an alarming rate.

Never thought LDU was all that special to being with, but Simpkin and Thomas have certainly been disappointing

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You were spot on with this. We are going backwards ffs

He looks out of his depth.

 

[VinnieB]

Thomas, Simpkin and LDU have gone backwards at an alarming rate.

Glad Stephenson is a North problem now. Very timid, very frustrating.

 

[Engimal v3]

Have to agree with the poll

 

[Blackhawk42]

I hope North throw the cheque book at Clarko. Former player for them as well.

I don't think Noble is the man unfortunately.

 

[SSSSSS]

Are we going to keep parroting same bullshit about it all being down to having the worst core of senior players?

North have a handful of talented young players (as does every single other team in the comp) but a lot of their under 23 players are triers/spuds (Atu, Scott, Mahoney).

Adelaide, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Freo etc have built a nice balanced core of young players in the 23 and under bracket at all parts of the ground. North putting all their eggs in the midfield basket is having dire consequences (Just look at their 23 and under backline).

JHF is going to be a superstar. Best defensive efforts from a first year player I've seen since Cyril. He needs help. TT, LDU, Simpkin have talent but nowhere near the heart and desire of JHF. All three of them are one way runners when they have nowhere near the talent or credits to play like that.

 

[VernonSpots]

Been a poor first 3rd of the season for North no question, but they were never beating Bris, Geel, WB, Syd.

Why were they never beating then? Am sure Hawks or Crows were 'never beating' some of the scalps they have taken.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Ironic considering your mob had them

I’m all for each club getting one in their existence it’s now our time

North fans always say this, but if it’s about equalising draft concessions, then Adelaide should be at front of the line.
They’ve had the least amount draft concessions of any club, and are one the clubs directly negatively affected by others clubs priority picks.

 

[Soggy2112]

North fans always say this, but if it’s about equalising draft concessions, then Adelaide should be at front of the line.
They’ve had the least amount draft concessions of any club, and are one the clubs directly negatively affected by others clubs priority picks.

If any club deserved a priority pick it was us at the end of 2020.

 

[Shinboner roo]

If any club deserved a priority pick it was us at the end of 2020.

Sure 3 years after a gf apparence and finishing on top of the ladder. I hope you are trolling

 

[Soggy2112]

Sure 3 years after a gf apparence and finishing on top of the ladder. I hope you are trolling

Our players out since the GF of 2017 to the end of 2020:

Jake Lever
Charlie Cameron
Mitch McGovern
Cam Ellis-Yolmen
Eddie Betts
Sam Jacobs
Alex Keath
Josh Jenkins
Hugh Greenwood
Rory Atkins
Brad Crouch
Kyle Hartigan

We were coming off of a season where we were legitimately in the discussion for worst teams ever.

Jones and McAsey were our first top 10 picks since maybe 2010?

I’m not saying we should have gotten a priority pick, but if other clubs who have received them deserved them then I’d argue we did then. It supports my argument that priority picks don’t help uncompetitive clubs turn it around, getting things right behind the scenes to allow the talent you do bring in to develop and perform is what’s required. If the AFL was to throw money at Clarkson to coach North I’d be happy with that, but don’t starve the other clubs of talent so that a bottom club that hasn’t got it’s act together can waste it.

For the record I don’t think priority picks should be a thing.