Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

Which team has the better youth?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 215 24.6%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 258 29.5%
  • North

    Votes: 401 45.9%

  • Total voters
    874

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hawkman

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
27,591
34,012
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.
We have beaten Geelong and Brisbane so not sure where you got your list from. The last couple of weeks we have also had the youngest team of the round on average so it is not like the list is filled with 26-27 that will take you nowhere
 

hk89

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 12, 2009
8,414
10,306
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Haha - did you I must have missed it, but the rest are correct yes?

No.

Well done, I stand by what I said , you're a million miles off, just like us.

Yes and No. There is the distance to the nearest planet, which is certainly a long way, and clearly Hawthorn have a long way to go to their next flag. Then there is the distance to the next star outside our solar system. The latter is north.
 

The acurate one

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 23, 2019
7,967
32,993
AFL Club
North Melbourne
No.



Yes and No. There is the distance to the nearest planet, which is certainly a long way, and clearly Hawthorn have a long way to go to their next flag. Then there is the distance to the next star outside our solar system. The latter is north.
Harsh HK harsh, time will tell aye 👍
 

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The acurate one

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 23, 2019
7,967
32,993
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We have beaten Geelong and Brisbane so not sure where you got your list from. The last couple of weeks we have also had the youngest team of the round on average so it is not like the list is filled with 26-27 that will take you nowhere
I remember when the Swans beat us by best part of ten goals in Melb in 1996- when push came to shove …
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
4,592
7,331
Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.

It's not just the fact we have won quadruple the number of games, it is our competitiveness and being in a position to win even when we don't. Hawthorn's percentage is nearly 40% better than North's - that is a massive gulf. IN fact, it is a much bigger gulf between North and Hawthorn than between Hawthorn and the top 2-4 teams in percentage terms. IT is one thing not to be winning regularly in your down cycle and another thing to be getting thrashed most weeks, even by the other poor clubs. For the top 5 teams, we have been in front in the last quarter against all of them (winning 2 and losing 3). Those same teams are pretty routinely putting up cricket scores against North.
 

hk89

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 12, 2009
8,414
10,306
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
In case people have missed it, in the second half of the season LDU has been averaging:
  • 28.2 disposals
  • 76.6% disposal efficiency
  • 12.6 contested possessions
  • 5.1 tackles
  • 6 inside 50s
  • 5.9 score involvements
  • 493 metres gained
  • 0.6 goals
  • 5.8 clearances
  • 112.1 supercoach
It's an absurd combination of inside work and outside ball movement. He has basically been one of the best contested players in the competition, but with the metres gained, score involvements, inside 50s and efficiency of an elite outside player.

I think this breakout clearly pushes this topic in our favour again.

Yes, no doubt LDU has been a shining light this year. Looking at his full season though, which is his 5th full year in the system, he's only slightly ahead in most of those stats compared to Newcombe who is only into his first full year in this system. Full year stats also has Newcombe with more metres gained, , more score involvements, and only 3.2 less AFL fantasy points. LDU is clearly an early pick that has come off, and those are the numbers you'd hope for from a player in this 5th season that was pick #4. My concern is the others that have stalled.
 

Mixed Results

Club Legend
Nov 17, 2011
2,243
7,193
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yes, no doubt LDU has been a shining light this year. Looking at his full season though, which is his 5th full year in the system, he's only slightly ahead in most of those stats compared to Newcombe who is only into his first full year in this system. Full year stats also has Newcombe with more metres gained, , more score involvements, and only 3.2 less AFL fantasy points. LDU is clearly an early pick that has come off, and those are the numbers you'd hope for from a player in this 5th season that was pick #4. My concern is the others that have stalled.

We had a braindead coach who played LDU for large stints in the forward pocket. Their form as midfielders is not even remotely comparable. Especially given the enormous gap in disposal quality.
 

Golumless

A bigger deal out west.
Jul 12, 2013
36,082
44,823
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Newcastle, Rockies, Oceanics
Ha it was to bottom out and build through the draft, not finish around ninth every year.
I realise the media have stuck the boots in, but we're not as bad as some think.
Time will tell of course.

Generally, when you're have 2 wins and a percentage of 55%, and you're not an expansion club, you're in an incredibly bad state.

Of course there are some green-shoots, even 1996 Fitzroy had them, or 2012 Melbourne but those clubs had to be effectively burned to the ground to rebuild them (Fitzory - merger, Melbourne had the nuke the joint and start over).
 

Psicosis

Brownlow Medallist
May 7, 2012
10,908
44,947
Bird Rock
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I don’t know how, but it should be our aim, we managed to make it happen with Dawson last year.

I think something like this, based on current ladder position would work:

Our first (4) and second (22) for Rankine and their first (8)

However if we win the last two games and end up with pick 8 or so then we’ll probably have to let it go.
Yeah look I get the sentiment, but this idea that Adelaide are going to be able to keep screwing over other clubs has an expiry date (much like that big bully roo). GC don’t need your two picks, I think push comes to shove they’ll accept 4 on its own (which is fair), but anything less they’ll let him walk to psd to send a message (which they’ve done before).
 

Soggy2112

Premiership Player
Aug 6, 2021
4,174
6,857
AFL Club
Adelaide
Yeah look I get the sentiment, but this idea that Adelaide are going to be able to keep screwing over other clubs has an expiry date (much like that big bully roo). GC don’t need your two picks, I think push comes to shove they’ll accept 4 on its own (which is fair), but anything less they’ll let him walk to psd to send a message (which they’ve done before).
This idea that Adelaide is screwing over other clubs is ridiculous.

What we expected to give up last year, and what I hope we do this year, is more or less in line with what we have received for our departing players in the past.

In 2017 we gave up Charlie Cameron for pick 12. Cameron at that point is the closest comparison to Rankine I can think of, but we’re “screwing them over” by not wanting to give up pick 4 without getting something back?
 

Golumless

A bigger deal out west.
Jul 12, 2013
36,082
44,823
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Newcastle, Rockies, Oceanics
Yeah look I get the sentiment, but this idea that Adelaide are going to be able to keep screwing over other clubs has an expiry date (much like that big bully roo). GC don’t need your two picks, I think push comes to shove they’ll accept 4 on its own (which is fair), but anything less they’ll let him walk to psd to send a message (which they’ve done before).

And they've also learned how sending a player to the PSD absolutely stupid move, seeing it didn't change anything. It wasn't a line in the sand moment, as the nuffies claimed, they just gave an opposition club a player for free. If they're dumb enough to repeat that mistake with Rankine, even if they didn't get an ideal offer, then all we've had reinforced is the Suns are a basketcase of a football club.

Equally "keep screwing over other clubs has an expiry date" is a real fantasy land opinion in a league where there are only 18 options. Do you think that Sydney, GWS or Gold Coast won't deal with us to get what they want out of principle? Did it stop clubs dealing with Essendon? Does it stop players requesting trades to certain locations? It has no impact whatsoever, it's just football. Eventually the wheel will turn, and a club will screws us over again when a player wants to leave.
 

Psicosis

Brownlow Medallist
May 7, 2012
10,908
44,947
Bird Rock
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This idea that Adelaide is screwing over other clubs is ridiculous.

What we expected to give up last year, and what I hope we do this year, is more or less in line with what we have received for our departing players in the past.

In 2017 we gave up Charlie Cameron for pick 12. Cameron at that point is the closest comparison to Rankine I can think of, but we’re “screwing them over” by not wanting to give up pick 4 without getting something back?
Hately & Dawson were both acquired for significantly less then they should have been, with the Camry brains trust opting to use leverage in bending over Sydney & Gws. Now Dawson has confirmed that already with his output this year. Hately is early days. However, both clubs were absolutely filthy post trades, which says a lot.

Expecting something back (pick 8 for that matter) for a pick 2 who is looking to explode, is just absurd. Now I don’t put it past Riccuito to do it again (we’ve seen his character this week), but what goes around comes around and we’ve seen how far that type of dealing has gotten Dodoro.
 

Simon_Nesbit

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2001
11,433
7,450
Tasmania
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hawthorn wins over (at the time/now):
Rd.1 Kangaroos (16th/18th)
Rd.2 Power (18th/12th)
Rd.5 Cats (5th/1st)
Rd.10 Lions (2nd/5th)
Rd.17 Crows (15th/15th)
Rd.18 Eagles (17th/17th)
Rd.19 Kangaroos (18th/18th)
Rd.21 Suns (11th/11th)

Two good wins (Cats, Lions) otherwise as you'd expect for a (lower) mid-table team.

Close Loss to Finalist:
Rd.3 Blues (3rd/7th) - 1pt
Rd.7 Demons (1st/7th) - 10pts
Rd.12 Magpies (8th/2nd) - 4pts
Rd.13 Dockers (3rd/6th) - 13pts
Rd.20 Saints (8th/9th) - 12pts

It shows we aren't at the level of finalists yet, but competitive (mostly). A few bad losses as well. You would hope with another year's development in the young players, some better luck with injuries (especially ruck) and we could win 2-3 of those, bumping us up to the 6-10 grouping 'around' finals.

(Happy for someone else to look at Kangaroos/Crows for comparison):
 

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Psicosis

Brownlow Medallist
May 7, 2012
10,908
44,947
Bird Rock
AFL Club
North Melbourne
And they've also learned how sending a player to the PSD absolutely stupid move, seeing it didn't change anything. It wasn't a line in the sand moment, as the nuffies claimed, they just gave an opposition club a player for free. If they're dumb enough to repeat that mistake with Rankine, even if they didn't get an ideal offer, then all we've had reinforced is the Suns are a basketcase of a football club.

Equally "keep screwing over other clubs has an expiry date" is a real fantasy land opinion in a league where there are only 18 options. Do you think that Sydney, GWS or Gold Coast won't deal with us to get what they want out of principle? Did it stop clubs dealing with Essendon? Does it stop players requesting trades to certain locations? It has no impact whatsoever, it's just football. Eventually the wheel will turn, and a club will screws us over again when a player wants to leave.
I disagree. Giants & Sydney will absolutely be reluctant to deal with Adelaide again. I think this expectation that all will be forgotten and forgiven is fantasy land, it’s a small industry as you say.
 

TheBigHorne

Club Legend
Feb 19, 2022
1,396
3,873
Don't ask me about my username
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yes, no doubt LDU has been a shining light this year. Looking at his full season though, which is his 5th full year in the system, he's only slightly ahead in most of those stats compared to Newcombe who is only into his first full year in this system. Full year stats also has Newcombe with more metres gained, , more score involvements, and only 3.2 less AFL fantasy points. LDU is clearly an early pick that has come off, and those are the numbers you'd hope for from a player in this 5th season that was pick #4. My concern is the others that have stalled.
LDU was subbed out of the round 2 game incredibly early so that puts a dent in his numbers. Score involvements is also a stat that is largely influenced by how good your team is.
 

Dominic03

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
7,813
8,336
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Seems the coaches live in the same delusional world as Dominic03.

Coaches votes had Gunston , Newcombe, Maginness and Moore as best for Hawthorn, which is a decent match for what Dominic was saying.

Perhaps an apology is due, or at least a reassessment of which of the two of you is delusional.
He doesn’t ever apologise he’s a stubborn prick!!
 

SSSSSS

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2011
14,582
26,905
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Six decades of domination
My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.
Michael Jordan Reaction GIF
 

Dominic03

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
7,813
8,336
AFL Club
Hawthorn
My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.
We belted Port at home early doors, beat Geelong the best team in it, beat Brisbane and close losses to The Dockers, Melbourne, Collingwood, Carlton and lead half way through the 4th to Sydney. Had a few shocking games with the Suns, Essendon and Saints games. But beat the teams we should and belted them with youth starring.

It’s not pointless games and never has been, if we finish the year off and knock off one of the tigers or dogs, we’ve done extremely well.
 
Last edited:

Dominic03

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
7,813
8,336
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Look I’m not the one that spends his days on the North board trying to get a r*** despite not standing a chance, if anyones stubborn that’s you Dommy
Lmao you are so far off it’s funny, taking the piss out of Ligma is funny asf, and I like North unfortunately which doesn’t help with you.

However I can admit when other teams in this thread are doing good or have so and so better, you cannot.
 

SSSSSS

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2011
14,582
26,905
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Six decades of domination
We had a braindead coach who played LDU for large stints in the forward pocket. Their form as midfielders is not even remotely comparable. Especially given the enormous gap in disposal quality.

They went on 1:1 the entire game and Newcombe was BOG while LDU junked it up in the last quarter when we put the cue in the rack.

Go revisit the tape. Hell just watch the first quarter if you wanted the synopsis of their head to head battle.
 

Dominic03

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
7,813
8,336
AFL Club
Hawthorn
They went on 1:1 the entire game and Newcombe was BOG while LDU junked it up in the last quarter when we put the cue in the rack.

Go revisit the tape. Hell just watch the first quarter if you wanted the synopsis of their head to head battle.
Yeah that head to head matchup was superb from Duke, pure dominance, LDU got on too late in the last when the game was done.

However 30 & 2 for both say one thing a deep dive in the stats:
Newcombe - 30 touches, 15 contested at 73% with 2 goals 1 & 7 score involvements, 3 marks (1 contested), almost 600 metres gained, 9 clearances, 3 tackles & 7 inside 50s.

LDU - 30 touches, 11 contested at 77% with 2 goals & 6 score involvements, 4 marks, 400 metres gained, 6 clearances, 5 tackles and the big difference. 3 inside 50s.

So 30 & 2 for both but. Newcombe won more clearances, more contested footy, extra score involvement, and got the damn footy inside 50 he was the driver, 7 to 3 is a huge difference.

Also 200 extra metres gained for Newcombe, got it forward and was more damaging.

And this is without the context of LDU kicking his goals late and having little impact when it mattered.

Can’t wait till next time as they are very freakish types (strong, quick etc)
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
24,572
19,832
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.
You missed us beating the top side.