Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[hk89]

We had a braindead coach who played LDU for large stints in the forward pocket. Their form as midfielders is not even remotely comparable. Especially given the enormous gap in disposal quality.

Yes, LDU is a very nice user of the ball, and will likely remain well ahead of Newcombe in that department for his entire career, but based both on age and games experience, Newcombe probably has a good deal more improvement left in him than LDU has. At the same age (which is an unfair comparison for Jai, because we are then comparing a guy with 1.5 years in the system versus 3 years), Newcombe was beating LDU very very comfortably in pretty much EVERY stat except disposal efficiency.

I didn't watch enough North games to know how little midfield he was playing earlier in the year, but 27 disposals from the forward pocket against us was pretty handy if true. I thought I remembered him playing midfield in round 1, maybe your coach's brain malfunction started further into the season? If so which round did it actually start? I didn't watch the Cat's thump you in round 6 (on account of being neither a sadist or a masochist) but looking at the stats sheet, 8 inside 50s and 7 clearances (only selwood had more on the day) also looks like a very handy set up of numbers from your forward pocket. Perhaps 'large stints' might be an exaggeration in some of those games where Noble was still coaching? Jai plays forward sometimes too, which is probably why he's kicked more goals than your forward pocket come midfielder.

 

[Mixed Results]

They went on 1:1 the entire game and Newcombe was BOG while LDU junked it up in the last quarter when we put the cue in the rack.

Go revisit the tape. Hell just watch the first quarter if you wanted the synopsis of their head to head battle.

The fact that Newcombe had his career-best game against LDU doesn't make him a better player. He had 11 effective disposals the next week. Had that performance come a week earlier would you be saying the opposite and that LDU was better?

 

[hawkman]

The fact that Newcombe had his career-best game against LDU doesn't make him a better player. He had 11 effective disposals the next week. Had that performance come a week earlier would you be saying the opposite and that LDU was better?

His career best game was in a win against the best team in the league on Easter Monday

 

[hk89]

LDU was subbed out of the round 2 game incredibly early so that puts a dent in his numbers. Score involvements is also a stat that is largely influenced by how good your team is.

Yes, that's fair enough, although our midfield has been one of the least functional for a few seasons, so it isn't like Newcombe is being carried by a well functioning midfield unit, in fact he's arguably been our best mid this year. Being subbed our certainly wouldn't have helped LDU's numbers vs Newcombe, but you'd hope his 69 games experience vs 27 games would have helped him catch up.

In any case, the question isn't whether LDU is any good, clearly he is, the question is are enough of North's other kids good enough as a unit to form the nucleus of a finals winning team. The Poll seems to think so, but this season leaves the situation quite unclear, with a few of them now in an age bracket we'd you'd start to expect LDU type breakout seasons, but instead see treading water or backwards momentum (much as we have with Worpel since his B&F win).

 

[Mixed Results]

Yes, LDU is a very nice user of the ball, and will likely remain well ahead of Newcombe in that department for his entire career, but based both on age and games experience, Newcombe probably has a good deal more improvement left in him than LDU has. At the same age (which is an unfair comparison for Jai, because we are then comparing a guy with 1.5 years in the system versus 3 years), Newcombe was beating LDU very very comfortably in pretty much EVERY stat except disposal efficiency.

I didn't watch enough North games to know how little midfield he was playing earlier in the year, but 27 disposals from the forward pocket against us was pretty handy if true. I thought I remembered him playing midfield in round 1, maybe your coach's brain malfunction started further into the season? If so which round did it actually start? I didn't watch the Cat's thump you in round 6 (on account of being neither a sadist or a masochist) but looking at the stats sheet, 8 inside 50s and 7 clearances (only selwood had more on the day) also looks like a very handy set up of numbers from your forward pocket. Perhaps 'large stints' might be an exaggeration in some of those games where Noble was still coaching? Jai plays forward sometimes too, which is probably why he's kicked more goals than your forward pocket come midfielder.

Between rounds 2 and 12, LDU only had more time in the middle compared to round 1 once. And it required a game where we were missing both Simpkin and Greenwood for that to happen. This followed him spending 57% of his time in the middle last year.

In both of those games (round 1 and 9) LDU was stellar. In other games prior to the bye, he rotated in and out of the middle which is why those performances aren't as strong. They were good, but not the outstanding performances that we've seen in other weeks.

 

[Mixed Results]

His career best game was in a win against the best team in the league on Easter Monday

If you factor in the opposition played and the overall game quality, then sure. If Newcombe played as he did in those two games every week, then maybe it'd be more of a discussion to compare him to LDU.

 

[hk89]

The fact that Newcombe had his career-best game against LDU doesn't make him a better player. He had 11 effective disposals the next week. Had that performance come a week earlier would you be saying the opposite and that LDU was better?

Well yes, that would some evidence that LDU was better, but that didn't happen. Partly because you didn't tag him, and let him go head to head against LDU. In terms of what happened the next week, the Saints saw him tear North a new one in the first quarter the week before , and put a hard tag on him. Effective disposals are pretty hard to come by when when you have a bloke hanging off you at every contest. Went forward to break the tag, and kicked 2 goals and sparked a decent comeback in the last. You could even say he "spent a large stint in the forward pocket".

 

[Mixed Results]

Well yes, that would some evidence that LDU was better, but that didn't happen. Partly because you didn't tag him, and let him go head to head against LDU. In terms of what happened the next week, the Saints saw him tear North a new one in the first quarter the week before , and put a hard tag on him. Effective disposals are pretty hard to come by when when you have a bloke hanging off you at every contest. Went forward to break the tag, and kicked 2 goals and sparked a decent comeback in the last. You could even say he "spent a large stint in the forward pocket".

He only averages 15 effective disposals for the season. I take it he must get tagged every second week?

 

[hk89]

If you factor in the opposition played and the overall game quality, then sure. If Newcombe played as he did in those two games every week, then maybe it'd be more of a discussion to compare him to LDU.

But when we do compare them across all the weeks, instead of just the matches Jai had really good games in , they are almost equal, and suddenly the excuses come out like "played in wrong position".

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Yes, LDU is a very nice user of the ball, and will likely remain well ahead of Newcombe in that department for his entire career, but based both on age and games experience, Newcombe probably has a good deal more improvement left in him than LDU has. At the same age (which is an unfair comparison for Jai, because we are then comparing a guy with 1.5 years in the system versus 3 years), Newcombe was beating LDU very very comfortably in pretty much EVERY stat except disposal efficiency.

I didn't watch enough North games to know how little midfield he was playing earlier in the year, but 27 disposals from the forward pocket against us was pretty handy if true. I thought I remembered him playing midfield in round 1, maybe your coach's brain malfunction started further into the season? If so which round did it actually start? I didn't watch the Cat's thump you in round 6 (on account of being neither a sadist or a masochist) but looking at the stats sheet, 8 inside 50s and 7 clearances (only selwood had more on the day) also looks like a very handy set up of numbers from your forward pocket. Perhaps 'large stints' might be an exaggeration in some of those games where Noble was still coaching? Jai plays forward sometimes too, which is probably why he's kicked more goals than your forward pocket come midfielder.

LDU is barely a better kick.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

The fact that Newcombe had his career-best game against LDU doesn't make him a better player. He had 11 effective disposals the next week. Had that performance come a week earlier would you be saying the opposite and that LDU was better?

Newcombe was tagged big fella. Had 21 & 2 goals and almost won the game for us. The same bloke who tagged him kept Tim Kelly to 4 touches.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

His career best game was in a win against the best team in the league on Easter Monday

Idk he kinda destroyed North. Brisbane game was my pick before that.

 

[hk89]

He only averages 15 effective disposals for the season. I take it he must get tagged every second week?

That's more because he doesn't average as many disposals per game as an elite mid does (and no I don't think he's elite, unless you add the qualifier 'for his number of games experience'), for a contested mid his disposal efficiency is probably only slightly below average (less stints in the forward pocket will surely bump up those effective disposal numbers ). Also makes some very ballsy decisions trying to find targets in the corridor , which is probably as per coach's instructions, but hurts his effective disposal numbers when they don't come off.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

He only averages 15 effective disposals for the season. I take it he must get tagged every second week?

You're right - those 2-3 extra effective handballs LDU gets that result in less metres gained and fewer score involvements make all the difference. Hopefully in 2 years time, Jai can do so well.

 

[Psicosis]

LDU is barely a better kick.

You don’t know football if you genuinely believe that… oh wait…

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You don’t know football if you genuinely believe that… oh wait…

LDU is a good kick, and the stats back it up in comparison, however ceiling and strengths within kicking (weighting kicks, bullets and to add with that, vision and decision making) I rate Newcombe highly. However it’s subjective and until it’s proven talent and not just what he’s capable of.

 

[Psicosis]

Dominic03 how do you feel about the Hawks and North only having 1 player in the 22under22 squad?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Dominic03 how do you feel about the Hawks and North only having 1 player in the 22under22 squad?

Most of our youth is either 23 or 19 ish. Newcombe is 21 however and is Under the 22 requirement.

 

[TheBigHorne]

Good to see Bailey Scott

8

Bailey Scott

Age

23

Ht

186cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.9

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

155.6

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.8

3star

MG

114.8

2star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

171.6

3star

to make the 22under22 squad even despite Noble playing him in the backline... whilst playing defenders on the wing...

 

[Mixed Results]

I love that a few Hawks supporters have jumped on Newcombe being better than Davies-Uniacke. You're all sure to look like morons in a few more years. There's more chance of Newcombe becoming another Worpel than him becoming better than LDU is right now.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I love that a few Hawks supporters have jumped on Newcombe being better than Davies-Uniacke. You're all sure to look like morons in a few more years. There's more chance of Newcombe becoming another Worpel than him becoming better than LDU is right now.

Newcombe is in his first full season and their season stats aren’t much different. Newcombe was better in the game they last played against you guys and was probably BOG. I’m not saying he is but mentioning and comparing Worpel is genuinely foolish, shows you have little idea (if you actually believe it lmao).

 

[Psicosis]

Newcombe is in his first full season and their season stats aren’t much different. Newcombe was better in the game they last played against you guys and was probably BOG. I’m not saying he is but mentioning and comparing Worpel is genuinely foolish, shows you have little idea (if you actually believe it lmao).

No it isn’t foolish, it’s a great example of many of the Hawks posters in here going way too early. You yourself have posted multiple times about how Worpel is elite etc etc and now you’ve gone mute about the Worpedo because he has gone backwards

 

[Soggy2112]

Expecting something back (pick 8 for that matter) for a pick 2 who is looking to explode, is just absurd. Now I don’t put it past Riccuito to do it again (we’ve seen his character this week), but what goes around comes around and we’ve seen how far that type of dealing has gotten Dodoro.

Why is it though? As I said, we traded Cameron for pick 12, same point in their careers, similar players. Rankine has arguably more potential than Cameron did, but Cameron was much more proven than Rankine is. What about Rankine makes him worth a pick higher than anyone else has gotten in the past?

Ricciuto isn’t our list manager either btw.

I disagree. Giants & Sydney will absolutely be reluctant to deal with Adelaide again. I think this expectation that all will be forgotten and forgiven is fantasy land, it’s a small industry as you say.

If GWS and Sydney need to get a deal done, and we’re the ones that facilitate that, they will make the deal. Clubs aren’t charities, if we have a player they want, they will make the deal. And at the end of the day we’re not here to make friends, other clubs have raided our list for talent constantly for the last 15 years, no one did us any favours then.

But still, no one has explained for me why we’d be being unreasonable to suggest that pick 4 is overs given the trades we’ve had to make in the past?

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Only a North fan would bump a thread to celebrate the signing of a coach that was unceremoniously booted out of his last club so he could be replaced by a younger coach more in touch with the modern game.

Sad times indeed down at North where excitement comes from signing a coach whose last two seasons ended up with bottom 4 and bottom 5 finishes, and has gone 0-4 in his last 4 finals as coach (even Scott bats with a better recent average). That was all with a list a good deal better than what North has right now. Clarkson was a colossus as a coach at his peak, but all recent evidence points towards that being well passed now. Very few coaches have won premierships as old as Clarko will be once North competes again, so history isn't on his side either.

I look forward to the bump.

I for one don't want to see the club sign Clarksons for the same reasons you have mentioned.

The North board right now is going nuts because they believe David King has a 20-year-old bigfooty account and is posting there.

What is he saying? Clarksons to North is as good as done, will be announced officially in coming days, etc.

And it seems like all of the North fans are happy about this, they seem to think Clarksons will solve our problems.

I think Clarksons would in fact become one of our biggest problems if he were head coach, especially if he were on a 3+ year deal.

Do not want.

 

[Golumless]

I disagree. Giants & Sydney will absolutely be reluctant to deal with Adelaide again. I think this expectation that all will be forgotten and forgiven is fantasy land, it’s a small industry as you say.

It's a very small industry, so small that no team has a genuine choice who they deal with.

Not so much forgotten and forgiven, just that no team can afford to be as petty as you're stating. After all, if either club needed Adelaide to get a deal done (or could profit from a deal Adelaide was working), you can bet your last dollar that Dawson/Hately would just be a thing of the past.