Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

Which team has the better youth?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 186 23.2%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 241 30.0%
  • North

    Votes: 375 46.8%

  • Total voters
    802

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North have the better top end young talent IMO. This was on display in yesterday when LDU dismantled the entire Adelaide midfield. I don’t see a future A grader in the Crows midfield, whilst North have multiple.

North have put all their eggs in the one basket. It's a pretty good basket though if JHF stops sooking and knuckles down and Phillips can get over his illness/injury.

Hawthorn and Crows have a much better spread of established talent. North still very speculative at this stage.
 

Psicosis

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What senior players stepped up for Adelaide yesterday? Walker was solid but Laird had a stinker and Smith and Keays were not great
All those you’ve mentioned, plus Dawson, despite being down on their usual output (the mids particularly due to being picked apart by LDU) still influenced the final result.
 

Soggy2112

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North have the better top end young talent IMO. This was on display in yesterday when LDU dismantled the entire Adelaide midfield. I don’t see a future A grader in the Crows midfield, whilst North have multiple.
Sam Berry
 

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Themanbun

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I don't disagree that the crows need more midfield talent, but I don't think it was their seniors who got them over the line yesterday.

McHenry, Soligo, Fogarty, Thilthorpe took some big marks, Berry went to LDU and curbed him a bit in the fourth. Worrell was solid. Schoenberg did some very nice things, including moving like LDU at one stage. Thilthorpe took some huge grabs.

Dawson was clear BOG for them but I actually think it was their young blokes carrying most of the load. Plus, he's 25. Only a year older than Simpkin, Zurhaar and Larkey. He will be around for another 6-7 years.

I'm looking forward to the battles we'll have over the next 5 years.
 

Soggy2112

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All those you’ve mentioned, plus Dawson, despite being down on their usual output (the mids particularly due to being picked apart by LDU) still influenced the final result.
LDU and Simpkin are 23 and 24.

Sam Berry is 20, Harry Schoenberg is 21, Jake Soligo is 19.

As we’ve mentioned Laird had a down game. LDU is a star and I’ve loved watching him this season, but him and Simpkin should be beating our midfield.
 

Psicosis

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LDU and Simpkin are 23 and 24.

Sam Berry is 20, Harry Schoenberg is 21, Jake Soligo is 19.

As we’ve mentioned Laird had a down game. LDU is a star and I’ve loved watching him this season, but him and Simpkin should be beating our midfield.
Which they did. Convincingly.
 

Dominic03

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It certainly isn’t “elite” like Dommy was carrying on about in here all preseason. I still think you need a high quality KPD (I think DGB will be a solid number 2).
DGB is the number two. Playing like a number 10 atm.

Blanck will be the 1.

Jeka hopefully CHF to fix the Kosi issue.

Outside of that it’s just get some mids. Which is the easiest to do.
 

Soggy2112

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Which they did. Convincingly.
As they should, but you’re acting like that means they are miles better talent wise, that’s not the case, they have 3-4 years experience on our young midfield, of course they should win.

On Saturday we had 4 players over the age of 25, but yeah, it’s only our senior players that got it done.
 

Psicosis

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As they should, but you’re acting like that means they are miles better talent wise, that’s not the case, they have 3-4 years experience on our young midfield, of course they should win.

On Saturday we had 4 players over the age of 25, but yeah, it’s only our senior players that got it done.
I’m not saying that Adelaide don’t have good young players. I think that they’ve got a good young group. Some of the lesser known guys like Soligio, Berry etc look like they have something, plus the more known ones in Rachelle, Thilthorpe, Fog.

The talk of your senior players isn’t supposed to be a dig. I wish North had the senior quality of Laird, Tex to lift up the younger guys. Equally I think it needs to be considered when criticising Norths young players, they don’t have that support system around them.

My concern with Adelaides list is around who of those young guys are capable of becoming elite. Rachelle & Thilthorpe are the two obvious ones (early days) whilst Fogarty has certainly put his hand up in the back half of the year. Given that their rebuild has been a few years in the making, I’d be a little concerned around the fact there is no one that screams “elite midfielder” in there.
 

hk89

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Which they did. Convincingly.

If beating a midfield convincingly is your metric for determining who has the better kids, then I suggest you rewatch the first quarter of the most recent Hawthorn vs North game, and watch Newcombe tear North's midfield a new one when both coaches let the midfields go head to head.
 

Soggy2112

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I’m not saying that Adelaide don’t have good young players. I think that they’ve got a good young group. Some of the lesser known guys like Soligio, Berry etc look like they have something, plus the more known ones in Rachelle, Thilthorpe, Fog.

The talk of your senior players isn’t supposed to be a dig. I wish North had the senior quality of Laird, Tex to lift up the younger guys. Equally I think it needs to be considered when criticising Norths young players, they don’t have that support system around them.

My concern with Adelaides list is around who of those young guys are capable of becoming elite. Rachelle & Thilthorpe are the two obvious ones (early days) whilst Fogarty has certainly put his hand up in the back half of the year. Given that their rebuild has been a few years in the making, I’d be a little concerned around the fact there is no one that screams “elite midfielder” in there.
Sam Berry is that guy for me.

He’s already statistically the number one tackler in the AFL, and I think if you watch him there’s a fair argument that he is the best tackler in the AFL. He’s a contested beast, and his ball winning ability at AFL level is developing. He has that immense core strength that is a signature of a lot of the top mids over time. His explosiveness out of congestion is starting to show at AFL level as well. I’m incredibly bullish about how good he could be.

Rachele may be an on baller, I don’t think he can be pigeonholed as a forward.

Schoenberg and Soligo will both be very good, with the potential to be elite, although I’m less confident as I would be with Berry.

I do also think that the need for multiple elite midfielders is overrated. The AFL is such a copycat league so everyone thinks because Melbourne has Trac and Oliver everyone thinks that’s a necessity.

Richmond had Martin and then a bunch of very good onballers, but I wouldn’t say Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin are any better than what Schoenberg and Soligo could be.

Hawthorn had Mitchell as elite, but again, Lewis, Sewell etc weren’t IMO elite level talent.

s**t even look at Geelong, who are favourites right now, Danger and Selwood aren’t really elite anymore, and I don’t know who else that they have who you would put in that category.

People forget Dawson is only 25.

Fogarty is right on the edge of being elite. If he maintains this mini breakout he’s had since the Geelong game he’s there. Berry will get there too.

Rachele and Thilthorpe have shown enough to be there.

Guys like Doedee and Milera are still very young and although not elite are top end talent.

Then you’ve got players like Schoenberg and Soligo who are definitely AFL standard, we’re still just working out what their ceiling could be. Butts has had a down year but I’m confident he’ll bounce back, we’re still expecting a lot from a guy of his age and experience.
 

Psicosis

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If beating a midfield convincingly is your metric for determining who has the better kids, then I suggest you rewatch the first quarter of the most recent Hawthorn vs North game, and watch Newcombe tear North's midfield a new one when both coaches let the midfields go head to head.
Hawthorns midfield youth is the worst midfield of the three clubs in this thread, I wouldn’t get too carried away
 

Psicosis

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Sam Berry is that guy for me.

He’s already statistically the number one tackler in the AFL, and I think if you watch him there’s a fair argument that he is the best tackler in the AFL. He’s a contested beast, and his ball winning ability at AFL level is developing. He has that immense core strength that is a signature of a lot of the top mids over time. His explosiveness out of congestion is starting to show at AFL level as well. I’m incredibly bullish about how good he could be.

Rachele may be an on baller, I don’t think he can be pigeonholed as a forward.

Schoenberg and Soligo will both be very good, with the potential to be elite, although I’m less confident as I would be with Berry.

I do also think that the need for multiple elite midfielders is overrated. The AFL is such a copycat league so everyone thinks because Melbourne has Trac and Oliver everyone thinks that’s a necessity.

Richmond had Martin and then a bunch of very good onballers, but I wouldn’t say Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin are any better than what Schoenberg and Soligo could be.

Hawthorn had Mitchell as elite, but again, Lewis, Sewell etc weren’t IMO elite level talent.

s**t even look at Geelong, who are favourites right now, Danger and Selwood aren’t really elite anymore, and I don’t know who else that they have who you would put in that category.

People forget Dawson is only 25.

Fogarty is right on the edge of being elite. If he maintains this mini breakout he’s had since the Geelong game he’s there. Berry will get there too.

Rachele and Thilthorpe have shown enough to be there.

Guys like Doedee and Milera are still very young and although not elite are top end talent.

Then you’ve got players like Schoenberg and Soligo who are definitely AFL standard, we’re still just working out what their ceiling could be. Butts has had a down year but I’m confident he’ll bounce back, we’re still expecting a lot from a guy of his age and experience.
Yeah agree to disagree on that one. Finals are won by sides with good goal kicking mids, every premiership has them, it’s not just a recency thing. I’m of the view you still need one elite one that you can surround with the workhorses.

I rate Berry, but he isn’t that.
 

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Hawthorns midfield youth is the worst midfield of the three clubs in this thread, I wouldn’t get too carried away

Reeves, Newcombe, Ward and Moore is a pretty good foundation.

Big wraps on MacDonald who will move into the rotations but a bit of a flanker at this stage.

Maginess has the makings of a great tagger.

Pretty happy with it so far.
 

Mr MysteryGuest

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I’m not saying that Adelaide don’t have good young players. I think that they’ve got a good young group. Some of the lesser known guys like Soligio, Berry etc look like they have something, plus the more known ones in Rachelle, Thilthorpe, Fog.

The talk of your senior players isn’t supposed to be a dig. I wish North had the senior quality of Laird, Tex to lift up the younger guys. Equally I think it needs to be considered when criticising Norths young players, they don’t have that support system around them.

My concern with Adelaides list is around who of those young guys are capable of becoming elite. Rachelle & Thilthorpe are the two obvious ones (early days) whilst Fogarty has certainly put his hand up in the back half of the year. Given that their rebuild has been a few years in the making, I’d be a little concerned around the fact there is no one that screams “elite midfielder” in there.
How would you define elite?
 

Soggy2112

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Yeah agree to disagree on that one. Finals are won by sides with good goal kicking mids, every premiership has them, it’s not just a recency thing. I’m of the view you still need one elite one that you can surround with the workhorses.

I rate Berry, but he isn’t that.
First of all, as I said there’s no reason Rachele can’t become that.

Secondly, who was Hawthorn’s goal kicking mid?

Obviously Richmond had Martin (again, there’s no reason Rachele, and potentially Rankine if we get him, can’t play a similar role), but otherwise none of Prestia, Cotchin or Edwards have been goal a game type players.

The two best teams of the last 15 years got it done without needing multiple elite goal kicking mids like you claim.
 

hk89

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Hawthorns midfield youth is the worst midfield of the three clubs in this thread, I wouldn’t get too carried away

How do you explain the smashing your midfield received the last time they were head to head with ours then? Especially given ours was led by a kid 25 games into his career when he dismantled the North midfield. Perhaps it was not enough ice baths?
 

hk89

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Soligo and Berry going well.


Interesting list. So Newcombe about as good as JHF and Paul Curtis combined, or put another away, nearly twice as good as either of them, despite being only about half a season further into his career than them. Makes sense to me.

Impressive by LDU, although only very marginally ahead of Dylan Moore, despite LDU having nearly a full season worth of games experience more than Moore.
 

Blackhawk42

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Hawthorns midfield youth is the worst midfield of the three clubs in this thread, I wouldn’t get too carried away

It's the biggest unknown. If you consider that Moore has only played about 8 games as a mid, then when ranking our youth in the engine room Newcombe is the most experienced with 28 games.

I won't begrudge anybody for thinking it's the weakest of the 3 sides in question. We need another 12 months to know how it truly looks though.
 

Psicosis

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First of all, as I said there’s no reason Rachele can’t become that.

Secondly, who was Hawthorn’s goal kicking mid?

Obviously Richmond had Martin (again, there’s no reason Rachele, and potentially Rankine if we get him, can’t play a similar role), but otherwise none of Prestia, Cotchin or Edwards have been goal a game type players.

The two best teams of the last 15 years got it done without needing multiple elite goal kicking mids like you claim.
Has Rachele proven he can play midfield at any level? I rate him very highly, but the fact he's never done it is enough to question whether he can become that.

Well firstly Richmond had arguably the greatest finals player of all time who was exactly that, a goal kicking mid. Whilst Hawthorn had arguably the best team of all time, across every line. So yes, If Adelaide have the leagues greatest player or the greatest team across all lines, then they won't need a star goal kicking mid.
 

Soggy2112

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Has Rachele proven he can play midfield at any level? I rate him very highly, but the fact he's never done it is enough to question whether he can become that.

He has done it in bursts, just not consistently yet. As I said, who knows what his best position will be in 4-5 years time, but there is potential for him to be that goal kicking mid.

Well firstly Richmond had arguably the greatest finals player of all time who was exactly that, a goal kicking mid. Whilst Hawthorn had arguably the best team of all time, across every line. So yes, If Adelaide have the leagues greatest player or the greatest team across all lines, then they won't need a star goal kicking mid.

I think what this discussion is proving is that it doesn’t matter all that much where the talent is, just as long as there’s enough elite talent in the team, and there aren’t significant weaknesses across the lineup.
 

The acurate one

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So some enquired on what a Comben was last week. Got through another game, hopefully gets a call up to the seniors for the last round.




I don't pretend to know who has the better youth as I don't follow the other sides closely at all.
But I do know that we're no nearly as bad as some would suggest.