Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[Cubs2Lions]

Crows say Fischer McAsey ‘firmly part of their plans’ after shock trade report: Trade Whispers

Crows say young gun ‘firmly part of their plans’ after shock trade report: Trade Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

Looks like Fisher McAsey could be leaving Adelaide this year.

Doesn't look good for Adelaide right now given their squad as it is right now. Feel sorry for the Crows given the situation they are in is similar to how the Lions were during that 2013-16 period.

Answering the question above though, Hawthorn probably has the better youth out of the three teams IMO at the moment with players such as James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

, Will Day

12

Will Day

Age

22

Ht

191cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

2star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

17.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

3star

, Jack Scrimshaw

14

Jack Scrimshaw

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.1

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

200.7

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

167.0

3star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

155.6

3star

, Mitch Lewis, Changkuoth Jiath

9

Changkuoth Jiath

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

2star

, Damon Greaves, Harry Morrison

1

Harry Morrison

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

13.4

3star

K

9.8

4star

HB

3.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

3star

CL

0.8

3star

D

18.4

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

7.0

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.2

4star

CL

2.0

4star

in their Best 22 and players to debut still such as Conor Downie, Jacob Kochitzke, Tyler Brockman and Denver Grainger Barrass that look like good talented players to come.

 

[RUNVS]

Crows say Fischer McAsey ‘firmly part of their plans’ after shock trade report: Trade Whispers

Crows say young gun ‘firmly part of their plans’ after shock trade report: Trade Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

Looks like Fisher McAsey could be leaving Adelaide this year.

Doesn't look good for Adelaide right now given their squad as it is right now. Feel sorry for the Crows given the situation they are in is similar to how the Lions were during that 2013-16 period.

Answering the question above though, Hawthorn probably has the better youth out of the three teams IMO with players such as James Worpel, Will Day, Jack Scrimshaw, Mitch Lewis, Changkuoth Jiath, Damon Greaves, Harry Morrison in their Best 22 and players to debut still such as Conor Downie, Jacob Kochitzke, Tyler Brockman and Denver Grainger Barrass that look like good talented players to come.

It is a position Victorian clubs don't have to deal with as much as non-Victorian. Even in their worst days teams like Carlton and Melbourne didn't have a mass exodus like teams like Brisbane, Gold Coast, Adelaide etc have to deal with.

I suspect him being from SA really was a strong factor in Adelaide drafting Tilthorpe with their first pick as they don't need to worry about the go home factor when they are shite.

 

[fnerd]

Adelaide or north , take your pick... both miles ahead of hawthorn, in fact every teams youth is ahead of hawthorn and with clarko looking likely to depart for carlton next year things are only going to get a lot worse for the hawks .

 

[RUNVS]

Adelaide or north , take your pick... both miles ahead of hawthorn, in fact every teams youth is ahead of hawthorn and with clarko looking likely to depart for carlton next year things are only going to get a lot worse for the hawks .

After 3 days testing in Bahrain Hawthorn have not impressed me at all. Their engine seems unreliable, they look skittish on high speed corners and even when they are pushing they are only just beating the other backmarkers. Going to be a long year for them.

 

[Sphynx]

It is a position Victorian clubs don't have to deal with as much as non-Victorian. Even in their worst days teams like Carlton and Melbourne didn't have a mass exodus like teams like Brisbane, Gold Coast, Adelaide etc have to deal with.

I suspect him being from SA really was a strong factor in Adelaide drafting Tilthorpe with their first pick as they don't need to worry about the go home factor when they are sh*te.

You also don't have 9 other sides to contend with for your home grown players or when players are moving home.

We lost Gibson and Hale to Hawthorn. Greenwood, Brown and Wells to Collingwood etc etc.


We've lost some talented players to go home factor ourselves

Byron Picket, Peter Bell and Daniel Motlop immediately spring to mind.



Adelaide can't complain too much given the stuff they pulled with Hately a few months ago, I think they will be hoping one of North/Hawthorn aren't McAsey's preferred club.

 

[Millsie69]

Adelaide or north , take your pick... both miles ahead of hawthorn, in fact every teams youth is ahead of hawthorn and with clarko looking likely to depart for carlton next year things are only going to get a lot worse for the hawks .

Thanks for the input, Caro!

 

[Kangaroo Cat]

As much as i want to rate norths kids (and i do) i am fully aware that hawks have better prospects than most realize with their kids
I would have North first or second on "potential" out of the three but I'd rate the hawks and crows higher for the coming year, as much as it hurts to say it

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Why are first round draft picks especially top 12 only having a 2 year contract. Top 12 should be 5 years, and 4 year deals for 13-18. Gives everyone some breathing space and certainty.

All that seems to happen is managers say try it for 2 years, if you don't like it we'll get you back home, where a year out clubs circle the player and their forms drops right off and they come home for a 4th rounder. If we want clubs to invest in the draft and have a national comp 1st rounders need longer then 2 years.

Also if the player wants to come home, why should the player choose their club, shouldn't it be an auction system, where clubs bid on the player, so the club losing the player is compensated fairly. If the reason they want to come home is homesickness, why should it matter if it's Carlton, Collingwood or Richmond where they end up, all clubs have the tools and programs in place to help the player. I'd suggest the club with the highest bid would certainly ensure the players welfare. Let players choose their club when they have the right under unrestricted free agency, before then it should be the clubs choice

Crows say Fischer McAsey ‘firmly part of their plans’ after shock trade report: Trade Whispers

Crows say young gun ‘firmly part of their plans’ after shock trade report: Trade Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

Looks like Fisher McAsey could be leaving Adelaide this year.

Doesn't look good for Adelaide right now given their squad as it is right now. Feel sorry for the Crows given the situation they are in is similar to how the Lions were during that 2013-16 period.

Answering the question above though, Hawthorn probably has the better youth out of the three teams IMO at the moment with players such as James Worpel, Will Day, Jack Scrimshaw, Mitch Lewis, Changkuoth Jiath, Damon Greaves, Harry Morrison in their Best 22 and players to debut still such as Conor Downie, Jacob Kochitzke, Tyler Brockman and Denver Grainger Barrass that look like good talented players to come.

 

[hawkman]

This is just an observation from me as a fan but there is something less stressful about supporting a team that is building youth but not in finals contention than being a team expected to make the top 4 and push for a flag. Don't get me wrong, I want my club to be doing that, and as soon as possible, but I am not feeling stressed watching games like I was in the 2012 to 2018 era. I am just happy to see progression, and if we lose a few games by a few points, doesn't matter too much as the team is still learning.

I wonder if Hawthorn and Adelaide fans feel the same.

Absolutely, if it is a close game back in the 2011-2016 period it was disappointing that we are allowing a clearly inferior team get close to us and wondering how a loss can impact a top 2/4 spot.

Now as long as we are generally competitive I don't mind as much about the result.

Youth wise i think we are better than most people think. Ours probably has less exposed form but there is some decent prospects in there. Sure it was only a practice game but in the win against North all our big ball winners apart from Shiels were 24 or under, most were 22 and under

 

[kane249]

These threads and articles reminds me of 2005. Complete disregard for anything hawthorn.

You also had a young Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead and Jordan Lewis on your list in 2005

Do you see the Hawks currently having those sort of future stars on your current list who can win you a flag in 3 years time?

 

[WWSD]

Hawthorn having three picks inside the top 25 in this years draft is going to come in handy. Thanks Collingwood.

 

[hawkman]

You also had a young Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead and Jordan Lewis on your list in 2005

Do you see the Hawks currently having those sort of future stars on your current list who can win you a flag in 3 years time?

I think that was his point. No one rated Hawthorn's young players in 2005, 4 years later they are star players in a flag

 

[RUNVS]

Hawthorn having three picks inside the top 25 in this years draft is going to come in handy. Thanks Collingwood.

Collingwood, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[kane249]

I think that was his point. No one rated Hawthorn's young players in 2005, 4 years later they are star players in a flag

Objectively though, do you think your current youth can springboard you to a flag within 3 years like the aforementioned players did?

You had 5 future hall of famers in the 18-22 age bracket, I just don't see it with your current list.
Hindsight may prove me wrong, but you can only judge on the exposed form available.

 

[Engimal v3]

North, but I probably argued that Ziebell and Bastinac were future Brownlow medalists a decade ago.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

You also had a young Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead and Jordan Lewis on your list in 2005

Do you see the Hawks currently having those sort of future stars on your current list who can win you a flag in 3 years time?

Despite winning the rising star, Mitchell was considered a plodder by most outside hawthorn until 2007.
Hodge was a fatty who wouldn't get a game elsewhere.
Roughed, Lewis and Franklin were mistakes which hawthorn were going to regret.

I don't think any team will be as talented as the hawks turned out to be, but that doesn't change the fact that none learned anything from the egg on their face in the 2000s, and then repeating said mistake coming out of the 2011 prelim loss

 

[hawkman]

Objectively though, do you think your current youth can springboard you to a flag within 3 years like the aforementioned players did?

You had 5 future hall of famers in the 18-22 age bracket, I just don't see it with your current list.
Hindsight may prove me wrong, but you can only judge on the exposed form available.

Probably not, but i didn't see it back then either. Still probably need a couple more top end picks to come through to really jump.
I don't think the list is in as bad a shape as most people think though

 

[hawkman]

North, but I probably argued that Ziebell and Bastinac were future Brownlow medalists a decade ago.

Were you on the Urquhart was going to be better than Pendlebury train as well?

 

[Virgin Dog]

Why are first round draft picks especially top 12 only having a 2 year contract. Top 12 should be 5 years, and 4 year deals for 13-18. Gives everyone some breathing space and certainty.

All that seems to happen is managers say try it for 2 years, if you don't like it we'll get you back home, where a year out clubs circle the player and their forms drops right off and they come home for a 4th rounder. If we want clubs to invest in the draft and have a national comp 1st rounders need longer then 2 years.

Also if the player wants to come home, why should the player choose their club, shouldn't it be an auction system, where clubs bid on the player, so the club losing the player is compensated fairly. If the reason they want to come home is homesickness, why should it matter if it's Carlton, Collingwood or Richmond where they end up, all clubs have the tools and programs in place to help the player. I'd suggest the club with the highest bid would certainly ensure the players welfare. Let players choose their club when they have the right under unrestricted free agency, before then it should be the clubs choice

Locking in players for 5 years is insane when you consider how much of a gamble the draft is. You'd need to structure their contracts so wages are predetermined, but that means someone like Jarrod Pickett would receive the same contract as someone like Matt Rowell.

I think 2 year contracts are fine, but players should not be able to choose which club they move to afterwards, only the state.

 

[fnerd]

Despite winning the rising star, Mitchell was considered a plodder by most outside hawthorn until 2007.
Hodge was a fatty who wouldn't get a game elsewhere.
Roughed, Lewis and Franklin were mistakes which hawthorn were going to regret.

I don't think any team will be as talented as the hawks turned out to be, but that doesn't change the fact that none learned anything from the egg on their face in the 2000s, and then repeating said mistake coming out of the 2011 prelim loss

lol
some real alternative revisionism going on here to suit your argument.... unfortunately it still doesn’t make any of the bolded even remotely true just because you say so .. you just come across as a very defensive supporter incapable of conducting a rational argument

 

[Engimal v3]

Were you on the Urquhart was going to be better than Pendlebury train as well?

Let's assess at the end of their careers.

 

[Pessimistic]

If you read the "which list would you least want' thread, the topic of the youth from these 3 clubs is covered quite a lot. The consensus seems to be that Hawthorn is the weakest of the trio.

For comparisons sake, here are some names from our 22 and under contingent (didn't know how to define 'youth' so chose in accordance with the 22under22 thing):

Established/in the mix for Best 22:
James Worpel
Will Day
Jack Scrimshaw
Mitch Lewis
Changkuoth Jiath
Damon Greaves
Harry Morrison
Dylan Moore
Ollie Hanrahan
James Cousins

Likely to debut in 2021:
Conor Downie
Jacob Kochitzke
Tyler Brockman
Denver Grainger Barrass

We were apparently the weakest list from Richmond and bulldogs in 2004

Howd that work out?

 

[Slysh]

I swear most other people see something in the Adelaide kids that i don't...

Can someone sell me on the Crows youth? Honestly open to it but outside of the kids taken in this draft who are an unknown i see not a lot to get excited about.

 

[windyhill]

Crows.
They never stay down for long.

 

[Pessimistic]

2-3 flags to players from/to north, Melbourne (Lewis and frawley) Adelaide (Gunston) bulldogs, (lake, suckling, duryea) saints (actually McEvoy and hill) freo, (hill) Brisbane (hodge and Birchall) is probably more medals than this teams have seen for 15 years