Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[Go the Guts]

Lol, funny stuff.

Budding comedian.

Yep

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Is that your argument?

Is it that he played for Port you can’t admit that he’s a star?

Can you and your mate always stop with weak arse argument?

You’re embarrassing yourself by resorting this.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You were talking about trades in... so how is their past performances relevant to their new clubs who are only concerned with their future performances?

And you think I’m trying to move the goalposts? Wat.

Adelaide : bring in one player via trade.
Hawthorn : bring in 3 players via trade/FA.

You: “getting in Rankine is quality over quantity”.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Can you and your mate always stop with weak arse argument?

You’re embarrassing yourself by resorting this.

I’m not the poster claiming that an wingman of Amon’s class and output is not a star, and that he’s not elite, despite being ranked elite by Champion Data.

 

[Go the Guts]

You’re mates are literally in here saying Rankine being recruited is better than all the players the Hawks brought in.

It was this post below that started this entire recent discussion...........

Have a read and tell me the first and last sentence isn't a Hawks supporter over-rating your trade-draft activity and under-rating Adelaide's? He didn't even realise we brought in Michalanney at pick 17. It's a very common theme in this thread, the over-rating of everything Hawthorn does by your own supporters, and under-rating of the other 2 clubs.

Some bloody unreal drafts from both North & Hawthorn.

North getting in two top 5 talents & George.

Wardlaw, Sheezel & George.

all bringing something exciting, Wardlaw that tough inside mid with explosive pace, competitive nature, but also very skillful.

Sheezel that crafty xfactor forward who can play through the middle, with dazzling skill & George is similar to that in a explosive powerful fwd/mid who just makes you wanna keep your eyes on the game.

-
Hawthorn getting in two first round talents with Hustwaite aswell who was seen as a talent around 15-20.

MacKenzie, Weddle & Hustwaite.

all bring something exciting again with, MacKenzie super balanced midfielder who's a stoppage beast but is explosive and super evasive with beautiful skills.

Weddle is an absolute freak of nature being 192cm but rapid quick and a super endurance athlete, good skills, very good aerially with a great leap, nightmare matchup as a wing/mid.

Hustwaite as that 195cm big midfielder, compared to Pendlebury because he's that super composed & skillful midfielder, he's tall and has decent pace but he's just able to slow everyone else down and makes the right decisions, was one of the best contested mids in the NAB League.

-
Adelaide didn't bring in much, traded in late for Dowling who's a really good accumulator and a pretty good size and will add something to that Adelaide future midfield.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It was this post below that started this entire recent discussion...........

Have a read and tell me the first and last sentence isn't a Hawks supporter over-rating your trade-draft activity and under-rating Adelaide's? He didn't even realise we brought in Michalanney at pick 17. It's a very common theme in this thread, the over-rating of everything Hawthorn does by your own supporters, and under-rating of the other 2 clubs.

That is a Dom post. Enough said.

 

[Tas]

I thought as an interesting experiment I'd do a basic analysis of how much Hawks and Crows have invested in the recruitment of young talent via draft and trading in terms of it's draft point equivalence. I've excluded rookies, PSD and MSD who had previously not been taken in the draft as they had no points equivalence.

Hawthorn have 19 players in the 18-23 range that qualify
18 year olds: 5 (3,702 points)
19 year olds: 4 (3,421 points)
20 year olds: 3 (2,735 points)
21 year olds: 4 (3,114 points)
22 year olds: 1 (246 points)
23 year olds: 2 (416 points)

Came out to a total of 13,634 points or 717.58 average.

Adelaide have 22 players in the 18-23 range that qualify
18 year olds: 3 (1,676 points)
19 year olds: 3 (2,615 points)
20 year olds: 4 (5,279 points)
21 year olds: 4 (3,515 points)
22 year olds: 6 (6,661 points)
23 year olds: 2 (1,697 points)

Came out to a total of 21,443 points or 974.68 average.

I thought it was a large variance so I also did my club as well.

North Melbourne have 24 players in the 18-23 range that qualify
18 year olds: 4 (5,191 points)
19 year olds: 4 (2,057 points)
20 year olds: 5 (4,537 points)
21 year olds: 3 (1,670 points)
22 year olds: 3 (2,169 points)
23 year olds: 5 (6,045 points)

Came out to a total of 21,669 points or 902.88 average.

Hawks lost a fair bit of value in 2017 and 2018 but it understandable, they finished 3rd in the H&A in 2016 and 4th in 2018. They went out in straight sets both times but you can understand the club feeling they might get closer if they patch some holes in the side. They were losing some stars at the time though and inevitability hit them. Crows also finished first 2017 but imploded after the infamous training camp. They shot themselves in the foot trading for Gibbs but generally held their picks and invested in youth. I think the strength of their younger pool in terms of draft value comes from trading well.

I think the strength of Hawks current list has been turning big bodied players into tough physical players, they have started to hit the draft hard of late and over the next few years their demographic will likely change significantly. I think Hawks decided to jettison a number of senior players so they don't jump into the mid table like Saints did with a half-finished rebuild.

Obviously not everyone evolves in the order they were drafted, some players can become stars who were relatively cheap or free, other highly rated players can just never hit the mark so it will be interesting to see how the clubs do with what they have, where they have invested in the talent and if they can put together enough good players of a similar age band to get anywhere.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Lol SYL keeps going on about great your off season has been.

I agree, but If the dock measuring is a waste of time then I why are doing it.

It has been a good off season considering we lost 2 senior mids our best forward and captain. Got 3 best 22 guys in to replace them regardless of their proven track record so far plus 2 1st round picks by trading up and we got the targets we wanted. Not sure what the issue is with saying that.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I thought as an interesting experiment I'd do a basic analysis of how much Hawks and Crows have invested in the recruitment of young talent via draft and trading in terms of it's draft point equivalence. I've excluded rookies, PSD and MSD who had previously not been taken in the draft as they had no points equivalence.

Hawthorn have 19 players in the 18-23 range that qualify
18 year olds: 5 (3,702 points)
19 year olds: 4 (3,421 points)
20 year olds: 3 (2,735 points)
21 year olds: 4 (3,114 points)
22 year olds: 1 (246 points)
23 year olds: 2 (416 points)

Came out to a total of 13,634 points or 717.58 average.

Adelaide have 22 players in the 18-23 range that qualify
18 year olds: 3 (1,676 points)
19 year olds: 3 (2,615 points)
20 year olds: 4 (5,279 points)
21 year olds: 4 (3,515 points)
22 year olds: 6 (6,661 points)
23 year olds: 2 (1,697 points)

Came out to a total of 21,443 points or 974.68 average.

I thought it was a large variance so I also did my club as well.

North Melbourne have 24 players in the 18-23 range that qualify
18 year olds: 4 (5,191 points)
19 year olds: 4 (2,057 points)
20 year olds: 5 (4,537 points)
21 year olds: 3 (1,670 points)
22 year olds: 3 (2,169 points)
23 year olds: 5 (6,045 points)

Came out to a total of 21,669 points or 902.88 average.

Hawks lost a fair bit of value in 2017 and 2018 but it understandable, they finished 3rd in the H&A in 2016 and 4th in 2018. They went out in straight sets both times but you can understand the club feeling they might get closer if they patch some holes in the side. They were losing some stars at the time though and inevitability hit them. Crows also finished first 2017 but imploded after the infamous training camp. They shot themselves in the foot trading for Gibbs but generally held their picks and invested in youth. I think the strength of their younger pool in terms of draft value comes from trading well.

I think the strength of Hawks current list has been turning big bodied players into tough physical players, they have started to hit the draft hard of late and over the next few years their demographic will likely change significantly. I think Hawks decided to jettison a number of senior players so they don't jump into the mid table like Saints did with a half-finished rebuild.

Obviously not everyone evolves in the order they were drafted, some players can become stars who were relatively cheap or free, other highly rated players can just never hit the mark so it will be interesting to see how the clubs do with what they have, where they have invested in the talent and if they can put together enough good players of a similar age band to get anywhere.

The demographic has already changed drastically within 3 years. It's now about these guys playing every week together building comraderie and developing a brand of footy based on what Mitchell wants. It already started last year and we're building the pieces we want for a sustained run at it. Not the finished product but we are further advanced than alot of people think. Even if results dont reflect that next year.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Lol, getting desperate now thinking this is a Port hate thing. Most regular Port posters know I don't hate them & rate plenty of their players.

Rozee is elite.

Amon is a decent player, just not elite.

Reckon most Port supporters would tell you exactly the same.

He is elite for his position. The stats back that up. Isn't many pure wingmen in the game that have numbers like him every week. Gaff used to but is now past it. Isaac and Bailey Smith are the barometers and he isn't far behind them. You wouldn't classify them as elite?. Right now he is the better player than Rankine because he has produced better footy more consistently. Sure Rankine might reach his potential but he would need to based on the hype around him. Any other argument against that is nuffie talk and you know it.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

And you think I’m trying to move the goalposts? Wat.

Adelaide : bring in one player via trade.
Hawthorn : bring in 3 players via trade/FA.

You: “getting in Rankine is quality over quantity”.

Based on half a season of decent footy. They can't even see how delusional they sound. Probably best to leave it be at this point.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Yes! Finally some one gets it. Crows were expecting us to use our 2nd F1 pick on him. So they 100% knew we were interested - we don't bid on players we don't want. Kinnear has said this a million freaking times. He has a list, and during draft night he goes down that list as the names are called off and if they are there Swans will bid - regardless of where other so called numpties have them.

They had to take 21 phone calls during the two bids to work out the best deal for pick 18.

They said going into the draft that they didn't want to use both first round picks.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that the second bid (at least) wasn't placed to bide more time on the pick swap negotiations.

Otherwise it's incredibly coincidental that Rowston and Michellaney just 'happened' to be the best available talents on their board at the time.
Although it's possible, since somehow they rated Cooper Vickery as the 12th best talent in the entire pool.

Kinear is preparing for life after Dodo. There needs to be at least one crazy list manager in the AFL at all times.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

It was this post below that started this entire recent discussion...........

Have a read and tell me the first and last sentence isn't a Hawks supporter over-rating your trade-draft activity and under-rating Adelaide's? He didn't even realise we brought in Michalanney at pick 17. It's a very common theme in this thread, the over-rating of everything Hawthorn does by your own supporters, and under-rating of the other 2 clubs.

Dom is literally the most optimistic poster on our board. Overrates players and lists and doesn't rate others without doing a bit of research. The more balanced posters don't engage with him that much unless there poking fun at him. His argument is different to the premise of this thread anyway. It's about the youth currently on the list as well.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Amon is a good player but he is what, 27? How far along are the Hawks in their rebuild? When you are shoving players like Mitchell and O'Meara out the door you would have to be closer to the start than the end? Mitchell is 29, O'Meara 28, are they too old? If 28 is too old to keep someone and 27 is young enough to bring someone in then that is going to be a pretty narrow window.

Hasn't missed a game in 3 years from memory. Is pretty durable and should be able to play at a good level for 4-5 years. Isaac Smith is 35 next year and he is playing as well as he ever has. He brings a point of difference that Mitchell and JOM don't have. Your making the mistake were in for a long stint down the bottom. Were not if we make the right calls on the list. Mitchell doesn't expect us to be down the bottom either otherwise we wouldn't be finishing just below mid table and being competitive each week. It's not the expectation internally and I think he knows more about the list's capabilities than most posters on here

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

It has been a good off season considering we lost 2 senior mids our best forward and captain. Got 3 best 22 guys in to replace them regardless of their proven track record so far plus 2 1st round picks by trading up and we got the targets we wanted. Not sure what the issue is with saying that.

I never said it was bad but it wasn’t anything special like you and others are pretending was.

Also you can’t just ignore all the players going out, that’s bs man.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It was this post below that started this entire recent discussion...........

Have a read and tell me the first and last sentence isn't a Hawks supporter over-rating your trade-draft activity and under-rating Adelaide's? He didn't even realise we brought in Michalanney at pick 17. It's a very common theme in this thread, the over-rating of everything Hawthorn does by your own supporters, and under-rating of the other 2 clubs.

I also admitted I forgot him & posted about him after.

 

[Sphynx]

Of course they would talk him down now, he left them.

He is in the top percentile for all recognised traits of Wingman. Kicks, rebound 50’s, meters gained, running bounces etc. He’s a star wingman, and if you can’t admit that, that’s on you.

He’s an above average AFL midfielder, the type that isn’t a never will be an elite midfielder, so he plays on the wing and does well.

Talk of being elite and a “star” is surely extracting it a bit…

His numbers also back that up.

Trent Dumont was classified by CD as an elite wingman 2 years ago also.

It’s generally a weird position for their algorithm.

 

[Psicosis]

Feels good to not have my team a part of a shitfight for once lol.


Please don't change this North fans.

No need for involvement. They’re fighting it out for second place.

 

[Golumless]

What club has he come from?. Rankine has more exposed form because GC has been terrible. Stephens has come from the best system in the league. 1st real pre season this year and he managed 8 games in a great side. Is he a world beater? No don't think anybody is saying that but nobody can say his average either when there isn't enough evidence to suggest it. You guys have put a fair amount of pressure on Rankine like he is the 2nd coming when ATM he is an unfufilled talent.

I get it's Gold Coast so no one cares about them when they do well, but Rankine had a hand in 48 goals (goals + goal assists) in his fourth season, on top of showing that this is a kid who is completely wasted in a forward pocket with some very strong contested numbers.

After a bit of a sluggish third year, he's recovered well enough to say he's well on track to fulfilling that promise after a breakout year. We're kind of lucky Gold Coast didn't pull the trigger on a midfield switch. Pick 5 wouldn't have been enough if they did.

 

[Psicosis]

The two big acquisitions for this thread during trade period are Rankine & Logue. Adelaide got a rare talent in Rankine, adding to their promising forward mix. Obviously it wiped their draft hand, but Rankine worth it. North addressed their biggest area of need with Logue, who now paired with McKay gives North the strongest KPD combination of the three sides #BFTB.

The draft North obviously had the biggest injection of talent, followed by Hawks & then Crom (for obvious reasons).

It’ll be an interesting watch in 2023 as Hawks & Crom fight it out for second spot.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I never said it was bad but it wasn’t anything special like you and others are pretending was.

Also you can’t just ignore all the players going out, that’s bs man.

Were not. Were also not being over dramatic with the impact it's going to have on the team like many on here are. Again Mitchell wouldn't have made these calls if he didn't have enough of an idea who can step up and lead the way into the future and he believes the nucleus is there. There isn't a leadership group like most clubs he's put the onus on the players to drive the culture so they all develop leadership qualities. Some are already ahead of others and that's who he will be relying on next year and beyond.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He’s an above average AFL midfielder, the type that isn’t a never will be an elite midfielder, so he plays on the wing and does well.

Oh pls.

So he’s not a star wingman, he’s a above average midfielder who just does well there?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The two big acquisitions for this thread during trade period are Rankine & Logue. Adelaide got a rare talent in Rankine, adding to their promising forward mix. Obviously it wiped their draft hand, but Rankine worth it. North addressed their biggest area of need with Logue, who now paired with McKay gives North the strongest KPD combination of the three sides #BFTB.

The draft North obviously had the biggest injection of talent, followed by Hawks & then Crom (for obvious reasons).

It’ll be an interesting watch in 2023 as Hawks & Crom fight it out for second spot.

Think we will leave it to the Roos to fight it out with the Hawks near the bottom of the ladder... whilst we climb up...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Oh pls.

So he’s not a star wingman, he’s a above average midfielder who just does well there?

Perhaps you should put a poll up on Amon...

You are deluding yourself if you think he is amongst the elite of the competition.

He won't be getting into the AFL Hall of Fame... won't even get consideration!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Also you can’t just ignore all the players going out, that’s bs man.

Seems odd that you posted that Amon shouldn’t be in this conversation, and you now want to talk about older players that we traded out.