Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

Which team has the better youth?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 79 23.0%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 74 21.5%
  • North

    Votes: 191 55.5%

  • Total voters
    344

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Jack Green

Team Captain
Feb 14, 2018
385
311
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St Kilda
Would a club really be spending much draft capital there? Got one key pillar in McKay, sure spend big on another key but that would be about it

Melbourne are really the only recent premiers that have spent a lot of draft capital on backmen
Yep. And first year in with both injured, the media [ and probably us too] derided their decision. Worked out great for them.

Saints to get their 2 key backs , gave up Pick 6 for Jake Carlisle and if you can work out the convoluted Dougal Howard deal your a better man they me- probably came out as a second. So a bit of a draft capital there .
Of these 3 sides the Hawks backline looks best in quantity certainly. Key big 6'6 backs probably less so, but good for lock-down , intercepting and setting up backs. Suspect their drafting will target the other areas of the ground the next 2-3 years.
 

Sphynx

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Jul 10, 2011
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North Melbourne
North have the best high ceiling talent. Not sure about their ruck talent and lack youth down back. Simpkin is overrated, makes too many mistakes with and off the ball. Thomas is their best midfielder.

Lot of the Crows players we need to come on are still in years 1-3. Seem to be developing in the right direction but a bit slower than anticipated. Forward talent outside of Thilthorpe and Cook are a worry. Should end up with a lot of solid role players, lack high ceiling talent.

Hawks have a solid defence for the next decade and solid young rucks. Probably look to a KPP next year and mids this year, think its a long road ahead for them.

Crows and Hawks both able to win games they shouldnt and were competitive most of the time wheras North rolled over many times and also lack a bit of on field leadership to steer them.
Simpkin isn't really overrated. It's not like he receives the circle jerk of a lot of players from the media around his age.

He can be hit and miss with disposal, but he's been getting better year on year consistently.

He's probably not going to be in our best 3 mids though moving forward though, which bodes well.

You are right, it would take some player (even JHF) to be better than what Thomas promises to be.....
 

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Nutjob

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Oct 23, 2014
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Who is North’s back six?
Turner (25) Mckay (23) Ziebell (30)

Hall (31) Corr (27) McDonald (26)

Short term or untried players

Walker - solid key defender but not long termer
Bonar - whilst playing some ok footy down back he just constantly gets injured
Flynn Perez - done 2 knees by his second season. Looked great in his few games last year and will get every chance to replace hall.
Pat walker, McGuinness, Hayden are all speculative rookies and probably wont make it.

So there’s not much there and clearly our weakest area of the ground, particularly with young players. The good news is that we have 3 guys aged around 26 that have 4-5 years of their best footy ahead of them. Plus Mckay who is the biggest piece of the puzzle.

You’d imagine a lot of our future draft capital will be spent in this area of the ground.
I would swap Bonar for Turner, but other than that this is our back 6 for mine.

Walker can be our third tall if we need one.

Big wraps on Perez, but will be against it after doing two ACL’s.

The rest are hopefuls at this stage.


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Mags98

Team Captain
Mar 16, 2018
385
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Fremantle
Turner (25) Mckay (23) Ziebell (30)

Hall (31) Corr (27) McDonald (26)

Short term or untried players

Walker - solid key defender but not long termer
Bonar - whilst playing some ok footy down back he just constantly gets injured
Flynn Perez - done 2 knees by his second season. Looked great in his few games last year and will get every chance to replace hall.
Pat walker, McGuinness, Hayden are all speculative rookies and probably wont make it.

So there’s not much there and clearly our weakest area of the ground, particularly with young players. The good news is that we have 3 guys aged around 26 that have 4-5 years of their best footy ahead of them. Plus Mckay who is the biggest piece of the puzzle.

You’d imagine a lot of our future draft capital will be spent in this area of the ground.
jeez hows hall older than ziebell that just does not make sense in my brain
 

the big lebowski

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Oct 4, 2006
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So, KPD for North.

Not remotely addressed at the draft table.

What does it look like long term?

We did address the backline as a whole which is pleasing. Goater confirmed as a defender and perfect for our needs as an interceptor, rebounding half back. But aside from going into 2022 with only 3 genuine key backs (one injury prone), long term we need someone.

Do North draft one early next year with a pick 3-10? Or trade for an established defender (or target feee agent over next 2 years)?

Overall though very happy with the talent brought in over the last 6 months

Edwards
CCJ
Greenwood
JHF
GOATER
Archer
Curtis
The Burger Guy
 

Dominic03

Club Legend
Oct 28, 2020
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Hawthorn
So, KPD for North.

Not remotely addressed at the draft table.

What does it look like long term?

We did address the backline as a whole which is pleasing. Goater confirmed as a defender and perfect for our needs as an interceptor, rebounding half back. But aside from going into 2022 with only 3 genuine key backs (one injury prone), long term we need someone.

Do North draft one early next year with a pick 3-10? Or trade for an established defender (or target feee agent over next 2 years)?

Overall though very happy with the talent brought in over the last 6 months

Edwards
CCJ
Greenwood
JHF
GOATER
Archer
Curtis
The Burger Guy
Midfield looks great, Goater will be a DEF-MID and Wing will rotate i suspect, unreal athlete for intercept and run and carry so he'll start as a defender, refine his kicking and composure (which he lacks badly) so he can use his strengths and then move more upfield, body is built pretty well.

JHF FWD rotating midfield.

CCJ, Greenwood, Archer, Curtis all there too. Latter two wont play early probably.

Missed big on trying to get a Key Defender.
 

Usayed Givashe

Club Legend
Nov 7, 2020
1,522
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North Melbourne
jeez hows hall older than ziebell that just does not make sense in my brain
Our back 6 from 2023:

McDonald - McKay - Corr
Perez - Someone - Goater

I’d imagine our first pick next year would be on best KPD available, or throw money at free agents (Moore/Barrass).

We’re still a fair way away from being competitive, but the foundations are certainly there for one of our best ever midfields.
 

rippersnipper

What up son, whatever
Jun 22, 2014
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North by a country mile.

North are legit finals team

Bookmark this.
They'd need to put in a proper shift defensively every week and get massively lucky with injuries. I expect great improvement in the middle and from the forwards, but the team's biggest weakness remains the backline and aside from Goater (half back in the Whitfield role?) we haven't really addressed that. I imagine the club will try to trade for a good KPD over the next couple of years with what will undoubtedly be high draft picks. Really need someone to partner McKay long term, plus a good small.
 

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B4Bear

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 6, 2011
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North's backline is still a real worry. Can see us leaking a ton of goals.
We leaked a ton of goals because our midfield sucked and the ball was coming in there way to often, and way to fast.

Losing Tarrant hurt, but not fatally. Corr's infection is gone now and will provide that extra defence we need. JZ has 12 months under his belt in that position, so will no longer be learning on the job.

Yes we need more down there, but it is not as fatal as people make out.
 

Horney

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Nov 25, 2021
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We leaked a ton of goals because our midfield sucked and the ball was coming in there way to often, and way to fast.

Losing Tarrant hurt, but not fatally. Corr's infection is gone now and will provide that extra defence we need. JZ has 12 months under his belt in that position, so will no longer be learning on the job.

Yes we need more down there, but it is not as fatal as people make out.
Yeah the main thing that concerns me is there doesn't seem to be any room for an injury though.
 

1990crow

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 31, 2009
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Yeah the main thing that concerns me is there doesn't seem to be any room for an injury though.
Personally I think North fans need to think five years in advance. That's when this young midfield will be ready.
Note fully expect them to be competing for the flag at that point and will worry Crows fans who think this will be our plan too.
 

Pessimistic

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2021 Hawthorn midfield + Change of coach + some raw youngsters - Loss of Master Coach = 2022 Hawthorn midfield

Current Hawks midfield has mature players including brownlow medalist, club B&F winner at 20, other players picked in first round and some wildcards

Ingredients not smelly yet, maybe a new recipe (Then a miracle happens)
 

H00t

Club Legend
Sep 28, 2019
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2021 Hawthorn midfield + Change of coach + some raw youngsters - Loss of Master Coach = 2022 Hawthorn midfield

Current Hawks midfield has mature players including brownlow medalist, club B&F winner at 20, other players picked in first round and some wildcards

Ingredients not smelly yet, maybe a new recipe (Then a miracle happens)
This thread is about youth though. We are probably around crows level of youth but definitely behind North.

We’ve really only switched to youth in 2019. Even then this is the first year with 3 top 30 picks since 2005.

It will take time for us to catch up with other teams that have had a youth focus for longer.
 

Rockford

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Crows not where they should be after the 2018 draft was a bit of a bust for them. If they'd taken Butters and Duursma over Jones and McHenry they'd be in a much better state. 2017 with Fogarty doesn't help. Thilthorpe, McAsey, Schoenberg and Berry so far have shown a bit.
 

Jack Green

Team Captain
Feb 14, 2018
385
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AFL Club
St Kilda
This thread is about youth though. We are probably around crows level of youth but definitely behind North.

We’ve really only switched to youth in 2019. Even then this is the first year with 3 top 30 picks since 2005.

It will take time for us to catch up with other teams that have had a youth focus for longer.
Absolutely correct. Just recently started scratching the rebuild and as your CEO , Director and President have all said , it will take time. And as you state , a lot of sides have years of development head start.
 

Guardian Hawk

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North by a country mile.

North are legit finals team

Bookmark this.
That's a big call!

North would have to triple their number of wins from this season to make finals. In fact, if they added their wins in 2020 and 2021 together, they still would only have finished 15th this season (and still behind Hawthorn).

It's not just the number of wins either - it's the lack of closeness in many of their games. In 2021, North had a points differential of more than 600 points fewer than their opponents (far and away the worst in the comp). Other cellar dwellers (like Collingwood and Hawthorn) had a points differential in the 200's.

We all know there are many examples of teams rising from the bottom 8 to play finals the following year - just don't think it happens all that often for the spoon side (has it ever in AFL history?)

I fully expect North to improve in 2022 but making finals I expect is a bridge too far - which is fine, I doubt that's even what the club is targeting. Instead, think their focus will be to continue to build toward a premiership capable side in a few years from now.
 
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This thread is about youth though. We are probably around crows level of youth but definitely behind North.

We’ve really only switched to youth in 2019. Even then this is the first year with 3 top 30 picks since 2005.

It will take time for us to catch up with other teams that have had a youth focus for longer.
We defeated 5 top 8 sides in 2021, even with injuries. We’ll leapfrog a few in 2022.
 

Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
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They'd need to put in a proper shift defensively every week and get massively lucky with injuries. I expect great improvement in the middle and from the forwards, but the team's biggest weakness remains the backline and aside from Goater (half back in the Whitfield role?) we haven't really addressed that. I imagine the club will try to trade for a good KPD over the next couple of years with what will undoubtedly be high draft picks. Really need someone to partner McKay long term, plus a good small.
Our tall backs aren’t any worse than the doggies. In fact I would prefer ours.


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Jack Green

Team Captain
Feb 14, 2018
385
311
AFL Club
St Kilda
That's a big call!

North would have to triple their number of wins from this season to make finals. In fact, if they added their wins in 2020 and 2021 together, they still would only have finished 15th this season (and still behind Hawthorn).

It's not just the number of wins either - it's the lack of closeness in many of their games. In 2021, North had a points differential of more than 600 points fewer than their opponents (far and away the worst in the comp). Other cellar dwellers (like Collingwood and Hawthorn) had a points differential in the 200's.

We all know there are many examples of teams rising from the bottom 8 to play finals the following year - just don't think it happens all that often for the spoon side (has it ever in AFL history?)

I fully expect North to improve in 2022 but making finals I expect is a bridge too far - which is fine, I doubt that's even what the club is targeting. Instead, think their focus will be to continue to build toward a premiership capable side in a few years from now.
Collingwood went from spoon to a kick from premiers in 76/7. But more a coaching issue than state of the list. And 12 team comp. They were in finals both the years before and after their spoon year, so 1976 was an outlier.
 

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