Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

Which team has the better youth?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 99 22.6%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 90 20.5%
  • North

    Votes: 250 56.9%

  • Total voters
    439

Remove this Banner Ad

the Ziebull

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2010
26,859
25,434
AFL Club
North Melbourne
North’s 24 and under team which should be there for the next decade to compare. Keen to see crows and hawks

B: Perez Mckay Bonar
HB: Goater McGuinness Lazzaro
C: Powell Phillips Stephenson
HF: Thomas Comben Horne-Francis
F: Zurhaar Larkey CCJ
R: Xerri/Edwards Simpkin LDU
I: Taylor Ford Mahony Hayden

Overall I think we are set up well going forward other than a CHB
 

Golumless

A bigger deal out west.
Jul 12, 2013
34,593
42,476
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Newcastle, Rockies, Oceanics
I’m trying to think who they’ve got as young forwards other than Thilthorpe that would have them as the number 1 group?

To be blunt, having Thilthorpe is enough to cover both Hawks and Norths forward lines at this point in time, youth wise. After all, the key part of the game at this point for all three clubs is finding stars to build around, and we happen to have a kid who flashed that potential, and plays a role that acts as the focal point in the forward line. North doesn't have that (as the likelihood is Thomas and Horne future is towards the midfield), Hawks are yet to find one.

Though beyond that, we did draft Rachele with pick 6 who'll spend some time forward, and of course we also have a pair of players to watch in 2022 in Cook and Gollant for how rapid their 2021 development was (though, it's probably a bit too early to have a serious guess at if all three future lies in the forward line).
 

Log in to remove this ad.

buttox

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2009
9,685
17,695
coburg
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The Forwards seem the hardest to nail down.
I decided to do a list of each clubs young blokes who kicked over 15 goals last year. (15 is a bit arbitrary I admit, but I wanted to fit it in one post.)
Adelaide-games-goals
1642214665305.png

Hawk's-games-goals.
1642210268453.png

North-games-goals
1642210348633.png


North would seem to be ahead on 2021 out put.
I recognize this is a bit of an isolated stat. Goals alone. But it is a close run thing if you ignore Larkey who is clearly the outlier.
The top 10 forwards for 2021 goals alone over the 3 clubs would therefore be.
1 Larkey
2 Zurhaar
3 Kozi
4 Moore
5 Fogarty
5 Thomas
7 Lewis
8 Thilthorpe
9 Sleevo.
10 Rowe
This is probably a stat that favours the older guys in the age group. For example Thilthorpe in my mind is clearly the best forward of the three clubs. He is just 19 and has more scope for improvement.
Any ways hope this info helps.
 
Last edited:

HairyO

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 13, 2015
28,391
30,724
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I’m trying to think who they’ve got as young forwards other than Thilthorpe that would have them as the number 1 group?

I still dont think there is any consistency in what age cap people use for "youth".

Is 22 young but 23 isnt? Do we use age on 1 Jan, age at the start of the season or age at the end of the season? Best 22 under 22 is as at 1 Jan I think. Probably the best measure of real youth.

I really think with 2 years of disrupted VFL its hard to know much about moat young players so this sort of thread should be paused til the end of this years.

Hawks were smashing the VFL but we also played a lot of the teams in the bottom half of the ladder - but maybe they were in the bottom half of the ladder cos we smashed them. Developing clubs have been simply crippled by the lack of VFL games. There are 12 or 13 players on each list who played only a couple of games in 2020 and 6 or 8 games in 2021. That is so much lost football.

We also dont know how much ground advantage was lost. In 2020 we had the worst travel schedule in the comp. Last year we were about equal worst with many teams. But the last 4 grand finalists were Victorian so maybe travel doesnt matter.

Anyway, TLDR; I think this thread is a boredom reliever but none of it means much of anything.
 

buttox

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2009
9,685
17,695
coburg
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I still dont think there is any consistency in what age cap people use for "youth".

Is 22 young but 23 isnt? Do we use age on 1 Jan, age at the start of the season or age at the end of the season? Best 22 under 22 is as at 1 Jan I think. Probably the best measure of real youth.

I really think with 2 years of disrupted VFL its hard to know much about moat young players so this sort of thread should be paused til the end of this years.

Hawks were smashing the VFL but we also played a lot of the teams in the bottom half of the ladder - but maybe they were in the bottom half of the ladder cos we smashed them. Developing clubs have been simply crippled by the lack of VFL games. There are 12 or 13 players on each list who played only a couple of games in 2020 and 6 or 8 games in 2021. That is so much lost football.

We also dont know how much ground advantage was lost. In 2020 we had the worst travel schedule in the comp. Last year we were about equal worst with many teams. But the last 4 grand finalists were Victorian so maybe travel doesnt matter.

Anyway, TLDR; I think this thread is a boredom reliever but none of it means much of anything.
If you go with 22 and under you don't end up with many KPP's or rucks who have developed and played any AFL.
It works great for smalls. The big blokes take a bit longer.
You can do 22 and under over the entire AFL. Its just hard when the pool is only 3 teams vs 18.
 
Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
The Forwards seem the hardest to nail down.
I decided to do a list of each clubs young blokes who kicked over 15 goals last year. (15 is a bit arbitrary I admit, but I wanted to fit it in one post.)
Adelaide-games-goals
View attachment 1311077
Hawk's-games-goals.
View attachment 1311079
North-games-goals
View attachment 1311082

North would seem to be ahead on 2021 out put. I would probably have Adelaide ahead of the Hawks due to having 4 players reach the mark vs 3.
I recognize this is a bit of an isolated stat. Goals alone. But it is a close run thing if you ignore Larkey who is clearly the outlier.
The top 10 forwards for 2021 goals alone over the 3 clubs would therefore be.
1 Larkey
2 Zurhaar
3 Kozi
4 Moore
5 McAdum
6 Fogarty
6 Thomas
8 Lewis
9 Thilthorpe
10 Sleevo.
This is probably a stat that favours the older guys in the age group. For example Thilthorpe in my mind is clearly the best forward of the three clubs. He is just 19 and has more scope for improvement.
Any ways hope this info helps.
Mcadam is nearing 27. He doesn’t really belong in the convo.
 
Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
I still dont think there is any consistency in what age cap people use for "youth".

Is 22 young but 23 isnt? Do we use age on 1 Jan, age at the start of the season or age at the end of the season? Best 22 under 22 is as at 1 Jan I think. Probably the best measure of real youth.

I really think with 2 years of disrupted VFL its hard to know much about moat young players so this sort of thread should be paused til the end of this years.

Hawks were smashing the VFL but we also played a lot of the teams in the bottom half of the ladder - but maybe they were in the bottom half of the ladder cos we smashed them. Developing clubs have been simply crippled by the lack of VFL games. There are 12 or 13 players on each list who played only a couple of games in 2020 and 6 or 8 games in 2021. That is so much lost football.

We also dont know how much ground advantage was lost. In 2020 we had the worst travel schedule in the comp. Last year we were about equal worst with many teams. But the last 4 grand finalists were Victorian so maybe travel doesnt matter.

Anyway, TLDR; I think this thread is a boredom reliever but none of it means much of anything.
I reckon 23 and under in these “youth” discussion is fair, and don’t mind if people mention 24yr old as there’s no real point to have a hard and fast cut off, as taller players have started to find their feet by this stage, but some might show something at 20-21, so you’re getting a better look at what is actually on the list.
 

HairyO

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 13, 2015
28,391
30,724
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I reckon 23 and under in these “youth” discussion is fair, and don’t mind if people mention 24yr old as there’s no real point to have a hard and fast cut off, as taller players have started to find their feet by this stage, but some might show something at 20-21, so you’re getting a better look at what is actually on the list.

Then I want a 25 year old who started late and has never had surgery cos clearly his body will last well in to his 30s :)

Its the slippery slope argument any time you cant agree on cutoffs.
 
Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
To be blunt, having Thilthorpe is enough to cover both Hawks and Norths forward lines at this point in time, youth wise.
I reckon you’re behind both.

Thilthorpe is clearly a huge talent, but to say that he’s enough to cover North’s Larkey/CCJ/Stevenson/Zurhar and Hawthorn’s Koschitzke/Lewis/Moore/Brockman is a bit much at this stage.
 
Last edited:
Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
North’s 24 and under team which should be there for the next decade to compare. Keen to see crows and hawks

B: Perez Mckay Bonar
HB: Goater McGuinness Lazzaro
C: Powell Phillips Stephenson
HF: Thomas Comben Horne-Francis
F: Zurhaar Larkey CCJ
R: Xerri/Edwards Simpkin LDU
I: Taylor Ford Mahony Hayden

Overall I think we are set up well going forward other than a CHB
I reckon we’d have to play Callow as a key defender if forced to play an under 24 side tomorrow, as he was trialed there late last year.
Pretty happy with our side though.

B: Jiath, Callow, Morris
HB: Morrison, DGB, Scrimshaw
C: Day, Newcombe, Bramble
HF: Moore, Koschitzke, Butler
F: Brockman, Lewis, Jeka

Foll: Reeves, Worpel, Maginness

Inter from: Lynch, Mitchell, Nash, Ward, MacDonald, Downie, Saunders
 

Elmer_Judd

#InBielsaWeTrust #MOT
Jul 25, 2019
23,044
38,655
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Leeds United
I reckon you’re behind both.

Thilthorpe is clearly a huge talent, but to say that he’s enough to cover North’s Larkey/CCJ/Stevenson/Zurhar and Hawthorn’s Koschitzke/Lewis/Moore/Brockman is a bit much at this stage.

Kent (Brockman) is a ripper of a young gun.
One of the steals of the 2020 National draft (pick #46)

Definitely think he will end up being a top 10 player from that draft (which was a very good one for Hawthorn) if he is not there already.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
Kent (Brockman) is a ripper of a young gun.
One of the steals of the 2020 National draft (pick #46)

Definitely think he will end up being a top 10 player from that draft (which was a very good one for Hawthorn) if he is not there already.
Still early, but he had a good first year for a small forward. Has class and x-factor.
 

JaegarTime

Team Captain
Jul 11, 2018
358
1,355
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Weird argument.

Lewis and Larkey were drafted in the same year, Lewis has just suffered injuries so he's played less games. Common sense would indicate that they both have the same scope for growth or "potential" moving forward, but Larkey has been better so far.

Meanwhile Reeves is a 23 year old 5-gamer vs 19 year old Edwards. To compare them on stats would be idiotic, because no one is expecting Edwards to come in immediately ahead of Goldstein, especially since rucks take a while to get AFL ready.

The comparison you're making is the equivalent of saying you'd rate Conor Nash over Jason Horne-Francis because he "has actual AFL stats".
That is the argument I’m making, that the narrative keeps changing lol. Your supporters are picking McKay over DGB, that’s the exact same thing.
 

Elmer_Judd

#InBielsaWeTrust #MOT
Jul 25, 2019
23,044
38,655
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Leeds United
That is the argument I’m making, that the narrative keeps changing lol. Your supporters are picking McKay over DGB, that’s the exact same thing.

Right now Ben McKay has the runs on the board, think DGB will be the better player long term, but Ben and his massive improvement last season was probably one of the most shining/positive lights in a very tough season for North.

But I get your point about changing Narratives though. I honestly have a feeling some of Hawthorn’s kids are going to have breakout seasons in 2022, and it would not surprise me at all if the Hawks kids would be in front in this discussion this time next year

(At this point I am taking the Hawks youth ahead of The Crows kids, whom I feel don't just have the potential game winning or changing factor (aside from Thilthorpe obviously) like some of the Roos and Hawks kids)

Will be fun to revisit this thread in 5-10 years time and see who was right all along :)
 

Psicosis

Norm Smith Medallist
May 7, 2012
8,059
26,087
Bird Rock
AFL Club
North Melbourne
That is the argument I’m making, that the narrative keeps changing lol. Your supporters are picking McKay over DGB, that’s the exact same thing.

Ive picked McKay over DGB due to projection. I think McKay will be better. Just my opinion. Fully acknowledging that DGB has not had the years in the system that McKay has. It’s completely hypothetical considering the age differential.

Comparing Lewis to Larkey is less hypothetical because they’re the same age, same time in the system.
 
Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
Ive picked McKay over DGB due to projection. I think McKay will be better. Just my opinion. Fully acknowledging that DGB has not had the years in the system that McKay has. It’s completely hypothetical considering the age differential.

Comparing Lewis to Larkey is less hypothetical because they’re the same age, same time in the system.
Less games.

You're projecting McKay, a Pick 21, to better than Pick 5 DGB, then in another post you're arguing that Edwards, who's not played a game, will be better than Koschitzke and others because he was a Mid season pick 1.

Can you just clear this up by admitting that you'll apply whatever rule is necessary to project/pick the North player in a comparison.
 

Psicosis

Norm Smith Medallist
May 7, 2012
8,059
26,087
Bird Rock
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Less games.

You're projecting McKay, a Pick 21, to better than Pick 5 DGB, then in another post you're arguing that Edwards, who's not played a game, will be better than Koschitzke and others because he was a Mid season pick 1.

Can you just clear this up by admitting that you'll apply whatever rule is necessary to project/pick the North player in a comparison.

I have selected Hawthorn players ahead of North as well as vice versa, so that’s not correct. You just get sensitive and therefore fixated on specific examples, Eg Lewis/Larkey.

I’m happy to explain my opinion to you anytime, rather then yourself who hides away from giving an actual opinion and try’s to nitpick holes in other peoples posting with selective stats. Grow a pair and put yourself out there, rather then hiding in your hole waiting to criticise others with a differing opinion.
 
Apr 19, 2006
77,091
161,371
The local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
I have selected Hawthorn players ahead of North as well as vice versa, so that’s not correct. You just get sensitive and therefore fixated on specific examples, Eg Lewis/Larkey.

I’m happy to explain my opinion to you anytime, rather then yourself who hides away from giving an actual opinion and try’s to nitpick holes in other peoples posting with selective stats. Grow a pair and put yourself out there, rather then hiding in your hole waiting to criticise others with a differing opinion.
Highlighting your always moving goalposts isn't being sensitive, and we don't really need an explanation of your opinion because it's been pretty plain to see throughout the thread.

North players who have played more games/never played a game/been injured for 2 years and played minimal game = better.
 

JaegarTime

Team Captain
Jul 11, 2018
358
1,355
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Ive picked McKay over DGB due to projection. I think McKay will be better. Just my opinion. Fully acknowledging that DGB has not had the years in the system that McKay has. It’s completely hypothetical considering the age differential.

Comparing Lewis to Larkey is less hypothetical because they’re the same age, same time in the system.
Why Edwards over Reeves then? Again you’re just changing everything around to suit the comment you post next.
That’s not even me saying Reeves is and will be better than Edwards, I’m just pointing out that you’re being a hypocrite.
 

buttox

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2009
9,685
17,695
coburg
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Why Edwards over Reeves then? Again you’re just changing everything around to suit the comment you post next.
That’s not even me saying Reeves is and will be better than Edwards, I’m just pointing out that you’re being a hypocrite.
I think comparing 2 blokes who have played less than 10 games or none at all is the definition of futility.
No one will 'win' the argument as you cant really prove it either way.
I would prefer Norths youth to either other team. But that is not overly surprising, that is the team I support.
IMO North and the Hawks wont finish bottom 4 this year. I think Adelaide will.
My bottom 4 for this year in no particular order.
Richmond, WC, Pies, Adelaide.
 
Last edited: