Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

Which team has the better youth?

  • Adelaide

    Votes: 160 23.3%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 188 27.3%
  • North

    Votes: 340 49.4%

  • Total voters
    688

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buttox

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Sure, I’m not saying Powell is the best rookie ever. Not that he doesn’t have much left to prove, as the vast majority of players that we are talking about.

But how can you have Thilthorpe who played 14 games but not Powell on 13 games, when using output at afl level as sole criteria. As I said previously, if your using projection then by all means.

Similarly Powell vs Schoenberg. Powell was easily better than Schoenberg in their respective first years. He was better than LDU, Simpkin and Thomas too.

It just seems that, as many have said in relation to many others rankings, we’re all just using our own formulas and picking and choosing what we want.
I'm big on goals scored for my forwards. Thilthorpe having already kick a bag is the equivalent of Powell getting 35 touches.
You don't expect a first year player to do it.
He is well ahead of the curve.
Some midfielders just never develop past there first year.
Second year drop offs are the norm for most young players.
Powell was ranked about 12th for rookies last year AFL wide.
He wasnt that good that you ignore players who have improved every year.
 

Dominic03

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Thilthorpes output as an 18 year old was far above Larkeys. He has already kicked a bag. It took larkey 3 ish years
After Day, McKay and Butts I dont think many are very good at all three clubs as far a defenders go. DGB 100% isnt a spud. so he gets the guernsy.
But you miss out Jiath, Scrimshaw.

Hardwick is the best defender on output.
 

the big lebowski

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I'm big on goals scored for my forwards. Thilthorpe having already kick a bag is the equivalent of Powell getting 35 touches.
You don't expect a first year player to do it.
He is well ahead of the curve.
Some midfielders just never develop past there first year.
Second year drop offs are the norm for most young players.
Powell was ranked about 12th for rookies last year AFL wide.
He wasnt that good that you ignore players who have improved every year.

Fair enough. I think you’re going off potential rather than output, but I like Thilthorpe so it’s not the hill I want to die on.

Powell vs Schoenberg though, please.......

And any defender over DGB if we are assessing output at AFL level.

Anyway, i actually don’t have a problem with the list, just how you got there.
 

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Dominic03

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I didnt miss them. I just dont rate them that highly.
The fact both north and hawks fans disagree makes me feel like im close to spot on.
Jiath was unreal, whether it was rebounding or intercepting, he was awesome.

Scrimshaw aswell.

I'd say Jiath had a better year than Butts (DGB aswell) with Scrimshaw not far behind with Hardwick easily first ( can go out cause he'll be 25 next year).
 
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That's because you're valuing the wrong things.

Is Thilthorpe enough to be worth more than all of them combined at this point in time, and give Adelaide the best forwardline out of the three, prospect wise? without a doubt. After all, the only thing that matters at this point in is raw talent, because the goal for all three of our sides is to load up with enough high end talent to sustain a premiership push long term. Right now, Thilthorpe is the only player out of the eight you've listed who has shown he's on a superstar track. Whilst some of the others have shown they're going to have a good career at an AFL level (Larkey/Stephenson/Kochitzke), they're not in the same ball park. Relatively, they're overvaluing the easy part, which is finding the solid players to surround your stars.

The difference at this point in time is even shown in the fact that Adelaide's challenge in the forward line is completely different to Hawks/North. Adelaide is just how do we make the most of a superstar talent? Hawks/North are how do we circumvent that we don't have it?

It evens up if either North/Hawks find an equivalent talent to Thilthorpe, or if Thilthorpe stagnates. Whilst those two aren't true, Adelaide having the best forward line is as settled as North having the best midfield, prospect wise.
I value output slightly more than potential, because output is quantified(even averages at the same age), whereas potential is all wait and see based on a draft pick number.
You've clearly disregarded output for potential in suggesting that Thilthorpe alone would be better than Kosi, Lewis, Moore, Brockman or Larkey, CCJ, Zurhar and Stevenson....which to me, is quite literally bonkers.

Thilthorpe had 5 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer in 5 of his 14 games.
Larkey had 13 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer in 4 of his 22 games
Koschitzke had 8 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer 2 of his 20 games.

And yes, I'm aware Kosi and Larkey are older than Thilthorpe, but 2021 was also Kosi's first year as a forward, and if Thilthorpe is really showing his 'superstar track' his stats should be well and truly equal to or eclipsing the other two at this stage.
 

Dominic03

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I value output slightly more than potential, because output is quantified(even averages at the same age), whereas potential is all wait and see based on a draft pick number.
You've clearly disregarded output for potential in suggesting that Thilthorpe alone would be better than Kosi, Lewis, Moore, Brockman or Larkey, CCJ, Zurhar and Stevenson....which to me, is quite literally bonkers.

Thilthorpe had 5 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer in 5 of his 14 games.
Larkey had 13 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer in 4 of his 22 games
Koschitzke had 8 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer 2 of his 20 games.

And yes, I'm aware Kosi and Larkey are older than Thilthorpe, but 2021 was also Kosi's first year as a forward, and if Thilthorpe is really showing his 'superstar track' his stats should be well and truly equal to or eclipsing the other two at this stage.
Well Stephensons best games haven't even been as a forward and shouldn't be in the conversation.
 

Elmer_Judd

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I think comparing 2 blokes who have played less than 10 games or none at all is the definition of futility.
No one will 'win' the argument as you cant really prove it either way.
I would prefer Norths youth to either other team. But that is not overly surprising, that is the team I support.
IMO North and the Hawks wont finish bottom 4 this year. I think Adelaide will.
My bottom 4 for this year in no particular order.
Richmond, WC, Pies, Adelaide.

Can't see Richmond in the bottom 4 quite frankly . Gold Coast are almost morals to finish bottom 2 as well imho
 

buttox

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Can't see Richmond in the bottom 4 quite frankly . Gold Coast are almost morals to finish bottom 2 as well imho
Richmond finished 12th last year and are getting worse not better.
To many consistent injuries.
GC is a good call though they will be around the mark.
 

hawkman

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With North loading up on mids it will be interesting to see how they can make them all fit, similar to how we are struggling to work out how we can making all our backs fit
 

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buttox

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With North loading up on mids it will be interesting to see how they can make them all fit, similar to how we are struggling to work out how we can making all our backs fit
Plotting Episode 7 GIF by Law & Order


We have a cunning plan.
We rotate injuries at a stunning rate and it ends up last man standing.
 

Kangas_11

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That is the argument I’m making, that the narrative keeps changing lol. Your supporters are picking McKay over DGB, that’s the exact same thing.
The narrative isn't changing, it's just that some players can be compared like for like due to age (such as Larkey and Lewis) whereas others with an age discrepancy usually need to factor in scope for growth.

McKay v DGB and Edwards v Reeves are similar examples though. The difference being that McKay has had a full season and the #1 KPD and played really well, whereas Reeves has had 5 ok/good AFL games.

I personally think DGB has scope to become a better player than McKay, just as Edwards has scope to be better than Reeves. At the moment it's all projection though.
 

VinnieB

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Two players who've shown abit without doing alot and a player who hasn't played (Ward should be there if JHF is a ?).
Powell has shown every bit as much as Day in his first season, yet Day is viewed by Hawk fans as a gun and one of their best. And JHF v Ward?? C’mon mate. JHF already looks like he is on a different level completely.
 

Yoda_

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I value output slightly more than potential, because output is quantified(even averages at the same age), whereas potential is all wait and see based on a draft pick number.
You've clearly disregarded output for potential in suggesting that Thilthorpe alone would be better than Kosi, Lewis, Moore, Brockman or Larkey, CCJ, Zurhar and Stevenson....which to me, is quite literally bonkers.

Thilthorpe had 5 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer in 5 of his 14 games.
Larkey had 13 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer in 4 of his 22 games
Koschitzke had 8 games of 2 or more goals, and didn't trouble the scorer 2 of his 20 games.

And yes, I'm aware Kosi and Larkey are older than Thilthorpe, but 2021 was also Kosi's first year as a forward, and if Thilthorpe is really showing his 'superstar track' his stats should be well and truly equal to or eclipsing the other two at this stage.

Comparing a first year forward to a third year forward is fraught with danger. At least compare first years if you want to do it. Very unfair on Riley
 

Sphynx

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Comparing a first year forward to a third year forward is fraught with danger. At least compare first years if you want to do it. Very unfair on Riley

I don’t get the points scoring with Hawks fans regarding Koschitzke.

I’ll freely admit Thilthorpe will be on a completely different level to Larkey. A fraction of a mark, or goal at a certain month of his 19th year isn’t going to change that. Larkey was a VFL player at his age.

Every chance he’s the best player from the 2020 draft, I rate him much higher than McDonald.
 

WWSD

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I don’t get the points scoring with Hawks fans regarding Koschitzke.

I’ll freely admit Thilthorpe will be on a completely different level to Larkey. A fraction of a mark, or goal at a certain month of his 19th year isn’t going to change that.

Every chance he’s the best player from the 2020 draft.

Koschitzke isn’t even a key forward. And yet, he had 46 scoring shots in his first season. That’s more scoring shots than Franklin, Roughead, Gunston, Breust, Rioli and Puopolo.
 

Blackhawk42

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Powell has shown every bit as much as Day in his first season, yet Day is viewed by Hawk fans as a gun and one of their best. And JHF v Ward?? C’mon mate. JHF already looks like he is on a different level completely.

I really like Tom Powell. Just want to mention that from the outset.

However, Day came 5th in the rising star award in his first season despite only playing 11 of 17 games, then followed it up with a Brownlow vote this only 2 months removed from a broken ankle. Unfortunately that same injury flared up and ended his year early.

Day is ahead of Powell currently from an output perspective. Day has genuine match-winning traits. Powell could easily become a 30 disposal midfielder. Their developments will be fun to track.
 

Sphynx

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Koschitzke isn’t even a key forward. And yet, he had 46 scoring shots in his first season. That’s more scoring shots than Franklin, Roughead, Gunston, Breust, Rioli and Puopolo.

But it wasn’t his 1st season was it? It was his third.

He had 2 years of AFL preseasons, daily meetings, development coaches and VFL tune ups to prepare. You can’t compare that to Thilthorpe (who missed a ton of football with OP also).

Mark this down along with the “Wards a top 5 pick” as plain weird.
 

Sphynx

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I really like Tom Powell. Just want to mention that from the outset.

However, Day came 5th in the rising star award in his first season despite only playing 11 of 17 games, then followed it up with a Brownlow vote this only 2 months removed from a broken ankle. Unfortunately that same injury flared up and ended his year early.

Day is ahead of Powell currently from an output perspective. Day has genuine match-winning traits. Powell could easily become a 30 disposal midfielder. Their developments will be fun to track.

Powell was second favorite behind Jackson prior to sitting out the rest of the year with OP, this was despite not even having a nomination.

You can’t place if you aren’t nominated.
 
Last edited:
Apr 19, 2006
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Koschitzke was a 21 year old when he played. Game style may be under developed but physically much further advanced than Riley Thilthorpe hence the point being raised.
If size was all that matters Courtney John’s would have been good.

Clearly Thilthorpe has far more experience as a key forward than Koschitzke who was drafted as a key defender and had played there up until 2021.

That’s all losing sight of the point though, as has Sphynx, this isn’t about whether Thilthorpe is going to be better than Koschitzke because he most likely will be, but the comment that Thilthorpe alone will be better than all Hawks or North’s forwards combined is hyperbole.