Which teams list would you least want going forward?

[Blues_Man]

Too many people putting faith in potential.

There's no guarantee that high draft picks will be good players. Brisbane's and Carlton's lists are putrid. Sure, they might come good, but almost as likely they'll stay crap for another 5 years (see Melbourne and Richmond of the last 10 years).

The team that just had 14 players suspended for being drug cheats is pretty ordinary as well ..they were garbage before they got outed ..so why does anyone think they have improved ?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Ridiculous, or accurate?
They've lost the most experience of any team and nearly dropped out of finals altogether towards the end of the year.
Harvey, Petrie, Dal Santo, Firrito, Wells, Ray (would have played more games if not injured) and even Black, who prior to this year, played 43 games over two seasons.
Your ruck is one of the best in the league, but is 28. Your most experienced forward is 34 in Feb and injury prone. Thompson is 30. Swallow is 29 and seems to be on the decline, with his stats showing a downward trend since 2012. Higgins is 29 in March and spent a good chunk of the year injured. Gibson is 30.
Jed Anderson hasn't shown much for a 22yo (23 in Feb) mid. Daw can't stay consistent enough to hold a spot and is now 25. Ziebell is a good player and should be hitting his straps, but couldn't be considered elite.
Wallowing around the 8 for the best part of a decade just means that your draft picks have been middle of the road and playing the core group of seniors for so long just means that you have a heap of inexperienced players sitting in the wings that now have to shoulder the load.
In one season, you've gone from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest. Your list only has 6 games average experience more than Carlton's. You have 16 players on your list that are yet to debut (I'm assuming this includes the new haul of draftees) and only 9 of them are teenagers. In comparison, GC have 6 players yet to debut, but have 10 teenagers on their list.
You have a healthy 13 players with 100+ games experience, but with most of your talent being shown the door, this leaves the experience in the hands of the average players.

I would say that most astute football followers can identify the problems with North's list for the next few years. It's no big deal, every club goes through it. Some take longer to bounce back (Melbourne, currently Carlton even though we finished 5th in 2011), but other clubs have shown that you can turn it around quite quickly. The sooner you can take a step back from the bias and have a good, honest look at your list, the sooner you can prepare yourself for a few years of pain.

Quality, thoughtful post. Deserves more than 1 "like'.

 

[Blues_Man]

Anyone that says that NDS and Waite were not astute recruiting has no idea about footy.

Don't equate North's tilt with Carlton's wallowing in mediocrity.

Waite was very astute ...he got you ....wait ..where did he get you ????

 

[footyfan1978]

It depends on what you are looking for going forward. Last year when the AFL released the squad for the best AFL under 23 team (squad of 50), North were the only team not to have a single player (not 1 player rated in the top 50 in the AFL in the under 23 age bracket).

Their supporters may have high hopes for the youngsters they have, but on top of not really having any dominant young players playing consistently well at AFL level, they are banking on lower draft picks becoming better players when compared to other clubs. If they were genuine contenders like say the Hawks this wouldn't be such a problem, but they have already said they need to "reset".

Things can change quickly but at the moment I find it almost impossible to say any team other than North.

The thing is, some of North youngsters seen so little of as they went all in for last two years go for an unlikely premiership tilt whilst Harvey, Petrie, Dal Santo, Wells and Waite were on list together. Now that tilt is gone they will playing youngsters I not seen and maybe some of them are ok. As we not seen the Hibberd's and Mountford's on their list we really do not know. Some other clubs like Richmond I have at least seen 85% of their youngsters in 2016 and looks very very meh. I decided to change my vote again. Just helped Tigs raise the bat for their 150

 

[footyfan1978]

I've changed my vote once. Can still be convinced of the clear worst one to have.

It depends on what you are looking for going forward. Last year when the AFL released the squad for the best AFL under 23 team (squad of 50), North were the only team not to have a single player (not 1 player rated in the top 50 in the AFL in the under 23 age bracket).

Their supporters may have high hopes for the youngsters they have, but on top of not really having any dominant young players playing consistently well at AFL level, they are banking on lower draft picks becoming better players when compared to other clubs. If they were genuine contenders like say the Hawks this wouldn't be such a problem, but they have already said they need to "reset".

Things can change quickly but at the moment I find it almost impossible to say any team other than North.

The thing is, some of North youngsters seen so little of as North went all in for last two years go for an unlikely premiership tile whilst Harvey, Petrie, Dal Santo, Wells and Waite were on list together. Now that tilt is gone they will be playing youngsters I not seen and maybe some of them are ok. Quite a few have not been seen due to that tilt they finally gave up on. Some other clubs like Richmond I have at least seen 85% of their youngsters in 2016 and looks very very meh. That lets me know their list better. I decided to change my vote again. Just helped Tigs raise the bat for their 150

 

[aussierulesrules]

The team that just had 14 players suspended for being drug cheats is pretty ordinary as well ..they were garbage before they got outed ..so why does anyone think they have improved ?

Because they look like they've drafted extremely well in the last 2-3 years and now guys that were either extremely young, or not on their list at all back then (like Zerrett, Parish, Fantasia, Francis, Laverde, Langford, Tippa and now McGrath) are likely to make them a better team, along with other solid additions like Brown and Leuenberger, Daniher being more mature and of course not having the whole supplements ordeal hanging over their heads anymore.

I would take their list ahead of possibly half the lists in the AFL and well and truly ahead of Carlton's.

 

[Blues_Man]

Because they look like they've drafted extremely well in the last 2-3 years and now guys that were either extremely young, or not on their list at all back then (like Zerrett, Parish, Fantasia, Francis, Tippa and now McGrath) are likely to make them a better team, along with other solid additions like Brown and Leuenberger.

I would take their list ahead of possibly half the lists in the AFL and well and truly ahead of Carlton's.

Yes but your opinion means nothing

 

[aussierulesrules]

Yes but your opinion means nothing

Why ask the question as to why everyone thinks they've improved if you think their opinion means nothing?

And presumably your opinion also means nothing, so why are you posting on here?

Their list is a lot better than yours.

 

[TwentyNine]

Not sure anyone is saying North can't contend for 5-10 years.

You make it sound like you have just had some kind of dynasty. Since 2009 North have made the finals 4 times for a net result of 2 preliminary finals floggings (both to the team that then got flogged in the gf), Carlton have also made the finals 4 times with 2 semi final defeats (one flogging). Norths results are hardly in another stratosphere.

You may think that it doesn't matter what players you put on the ground, you are going to do better than most, but it's easy to see why others wouldn't share that view.

If people agree we can contend in 5-10 years then there should be a decent number of teams with more votes than us.

Not a dynasty, obviously, but you could make the argument that we've outperformed all bar four other teams over the past three years. We haven't gotten nearly as far as we'd like to, but the point is that we've been able to perform to a decently high level, especially considering the commonly-held view that we lack the A-grade talent of clubs like Sydney, Hawthorn and the Bulldogs.

The prelim against West Coast was lost by 25 points, and we were up at half time - can hardly be considered a 'flogging'.

It very much matters what players you put on the ground, but what mostly matters is how you've developed those players, and how strong the understanding is between them.

But I suppose in a thread that specifically asks "what list would you like to have" it's not unreasonable to overlook the superior development and coaching of players as a factor, so fair enough.

It just amuses, generally, that people consistently tip North to be one of the worst, only for us to outperform those expectations every single year - meanwhile, people talk up the bigger clubs every season and they never cease failing to live up to expectations.

 

[Saint]

The team that just had 14 players suspended for being drug cheats is pretty ordinary as well ..they were garbage before they got outed ..so why does anyone think they have improved ?

As good a range of draft picks as any other team barring GC/GWS and just have a handful of All Australians returning (including key position players), plus a player who won enough votes to be awarded the Brownlow medal. Thus we have a bunch of proven players plus a bunch of promising youngsters.

 

[old55]

I'm not too keen on Geelong's list over the next 5 years. I think they'll make finals in 2017 but aren't good enough to win the flag - they'll be worse than last year with very good players and effective players Enright and Bartel retiring. Then it continues in waves: Mackie and Lonergan, then Selwood, Hawkins and Henderson - unchanged that would be a steady decline. They'll have a lot of salary cap free so need to use FA well. Having Stephen Wells is some cause for comfort though.

 

[HeHateMe]

Im not to sure about the Geelong hate. In my eyes they have 2 top 5 mids and a solid KPF and KPD.

Its the role players that need to step up and that isnt awfully hard to do.

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[Milanista28]

Im not to sure about the Geelong hate. In my eyes they have 2 top 5 mids and a solid KPF and KPD.

Its the role players that need to step up and that isnt awfully hard to do.

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This is everyone's query with the cats, Their b and c graders have been b and c graders for a while now, Not sure where the rapid improvement is gonna come from.

 

[Richo83]

Staggered at the lack of votes the suns have gotten, their record without Ablett playing is terrible (5-1-30).

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Im not to sure about the Geelong hate. In my eyes they have 2 top 5 mids and a solid KPF and KPD.

Its the role players that need to step up and that isnt awfully hard to do.

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That's 4 out of 22 tho

 

[aussierulesrules]

Staggered at the lack of votes the suns have gotten.

I'm guessing that plenty would like a list that contains Lynch and Wright as the twin towers up forward, May in particular and Thompson in the key posts down back, Bowes, Hall, Miller, Brodie, Swallow, Martin and Hanley in and around the midfield and the likes of Ainsworth, Kolodjsahnij, Harbrow, Saad, Scrimshaw, Fiorini and Ah Chee on the flanks, wings and pockets. Without having double-checked, I think 9 of those 18 were taken in the top 10 of their draft and that doesn't even include Lynch, who went at no.11.

That's a whole lot of talent there from where I'm sitting and most of them are under 25yo.

I would take that list over lists like North's, Port's, Carlton's and Richmond's without even hesitating I reckon.

 

[freddy mercury]

North 41% of the votes, actually surprised by that.

 

[freddy mercury]

haha just when I thought Bigfooty couldn't get any more ridiculous, 41% of people vote for North

Accurate though.

 

[The Donners]

A long period of mediocrity starves the list of the valuable high end pick/talent that's needed to push for a premiership. The core of your list Goldstein, Swallow, Ziebill, Atley etc, project to countinue that trend of missing the high end assets, but still lack the quality to ultimately contend, it can be a hard trend to get out of one way or another.

Reminds me of Richmond through the 90s with Knights, Campbell, Richardson, Bowden etc.

 

[old55]

Im not to sure about the Geelong hate. In my eyes they have 2 top 5 mids and a solid KPF and KPD.

OK in 2017 29yo, 27yo, 29yo, 31yo but after that it starts to get ugly and there's not much underneath as you say.

 

[adammania9]

OK in 2017 29yo, 27yo, 29yo, 31yo but after that it starts to get ugly and there's not much underneath as you say.

If Stephen Wells was my team's recruiting manager, I don't think I'd ever give a s**t about the current age bracket. The man's a genius.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

The idea that getting a lot of high picks is the only way you can build a talented list is a very popular, very incorrect idea. Clubs like Melbourne and Carlton spent years in the 00s getting high pick after high pick and did nothing. We have a coaching and development team that has regularly brought us to finals over the last five years even with a list that most people will tell you they don't rate. We've spent the last few years recovering from a period of severe financial instability, we're finally moving past that and now in a position to invest significantly more $ into our football performance. I think the club has been achieving very good results despite our limited resources, and now that we have more resources we should logically improve further. That will likely include something of a bump in the road over the next year or two as we focus on regenerating a bit, but the idea that we can't contend in 5-10 years is rooted in that myth of bottoming out - really just a nursery rhyme that the go-nowhere s**t clubs of the league whisper to themselves at night.

I didn't state it's the only way to build a talented list, or that it guarantees success, there's a lot of other factors including talent identification, development and strategy for that to work.

IMO (and others by the polls) your current list with the exception of Goldstein, lacks the elite talent to compete for a premiership like the past winners. I also think your list in the short term isn't the worst, which ultimately lowers your probability of landing more elite talent via the draft. Trading and Free Agency is another mechanism to improve your list, you have landed players in previous years, but I would call you more an opportunity club rather than a destination club.

I also think the perception of any list can change rather quickly, it can come with luck, landing a draft bargain like Fyfe, Cripps or Wines etc, by making what selections you haven count early, or late. You may break it by landing a big name free agent, trading for an unestablished star. Maybe by being bold and trading some of your established talent, there's multiple ways.

I view our list from a few years ago much the same as your current list(without the success you had). We were a middle of the ladder team, lacking elite talent, hoping players like Leuenberger, Rich, Rockliff and Redden would take us to contenders, ultimatly our hand was forced and we went down the hard roads again. While the short terms view isnt great, I'd much prefer where this team is projected to go, to where that the team was headed, and a big part of that was the bottoming out. Schache and McCluggage are far from certain to develop to the player we want, but having them makes our list more attractive until they prove otherwise.

 

[DangerIsLove]

North Melbourne of course
Shocking list and based out of Arden Street North Melbourne which is a complete shithole anyway
Boring footy club, no culture, uggghhhhhh

 

[old55]

If Stephen Wells was my team's recruiting manager, I don't think I'd ever give a s**t about the current age bracket. The man's a genius.

Agree but he'll need to get cracking again, there's little underneath the cream right now

 

[Big Blood]

Richmond. Besides a handfull of players there list is full of spuds in no mans land.

I voted Tigers, but mostly I'm amazed that GWS polled behind four other clubs.