Strategy While we’ve been tearing our hair out - has Don completely changed the gameplan?

maxlilly

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I also think the midfield are showing Mick Godden's style as well. Both new assistant coaches are having a big influence on our gameplan.
I think both guys have been good for the club, fresh new faces, different set of eyes on the game.
We were very rusty early in the year but it is starting to click for them now.
I see that as a brave move by the club to move Campo to another position and grab a good coach from the sanfl to run the midfield.
 

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It's interesting how this 666 rule has turned out. The opposite of what the afl intended....eg low scores. Before the season began I was concerned that we looked quite slow and had serious problems in the ruck department. I don't think we adapted well to the new rules at all at first but now it seems they have found a good balance. This week will be a good test of that against a quick side. Will we out muscle them or will they run all over the top of us? Whatever happens I'll be very glad when we can add both Seed and Milera to the team.
 

Peter J

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Thread starter #153
It's interesting how this 666 rule has turned out. The opposite of what the afl intended....eg low scores. Before the season began I was concerned that we looked quite slow and had serious problems in the ruck department. I don't think we adapted well to the new rules at all at first but now it seems they have found a good balance. This week will be a good test of that against a quick side. Will we out muscle them or will they run all over the top of us? Whatever happens I'll be very glad when we can add both Seed and Milera to the team.
Interesting isn’t it. Saw DT on the news saying how much he likes it, much less intercept play with spares and back to old fashioned 1/1 which suits him.

I guess that’s the point - we’re back to old fashioned 1/1 footy. Did we see constant big scores back in the day? Not sure that we did.

So what the AFL did was regress the game. They’ve taken it back decades.

How did they think this was going to help scoring?
 

Bonkers000

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Interesting isn’t it. Saw DT on the news saying how much he likes it, much less intercept play with spares and back to old fashioned 1/1 which suits him.

I guess that’s the point - we’re back to old fashioned 1/1 footy. Did we see constant big scores back in the day? Not sure that we did.

So what the AFL did was regress the game. They’ve taken it back decades.

How did they think this was going to help scoring?
With that being said, it did give Melbourne the chance to steal the game against the suns which most likely wouldn’t have happened under the old rules. Makes for exciting games if scores are close.
 
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Interesting isn’t it. Saw DT on the news saying how much he likes it, much less intercept play with spares and back to old fashioned 1/1 which suits him.

I guess that’s the point - we’re back to old fashioned 1/1 footy. Did we see constant big scores back in the day? Not sure that we did.

So what the AFL did was regress the game. They’ve taken it back decades.

How did they think this was going to help scoring?
I saw that interview on the news tonight as well. It certainly has benefited Talia's game this year he's been awesome.
 

Glenno23

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Absolutely no guarantee that Roughead would be half decent as a coach. Yes it was great he was coaching yesterday... but who knows what he said was right?
Of course there is no guarantee. But let's look at Alistair Clarkson's Hawks and the people who have come out of there:

Adam Simpson. 2018 flag coach
Damien Hardwick. 2017 flag coach
Luke Beveridge. 2016 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2015 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2014 flag coach
Alistair Clarkson. 2013 flag coach

Sam Mitchell. Part of the 2018 flag as an assistant (There may be others too?)

Other current head coaches from Clarkson (but yet to win a flag):

Bolton
Cameron
Fagan
Dew (as a player)

It's just good IP
 

Glenno23

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Interesting isn’t it. Saw DT on the news saying how much he likes it, much less intercept play with spares and back to old fashioned 1/1 which suits him.

I guess that’s the point - we’re back to old fashioned 1/1 footy. Did we see constant big scores back in the day? Not sure that we did.

So what the AFL did was regress the game. They’ve taken it back decades.

How did they think this was going to help scoring?
The problem with the AFL is that they rarely think of the reaction to their action.....

They're morons
 

NikkiNoo

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The period of highest scoring and best skills coincided with very high interchange rates. Ever since they capped interchanges and forced players to be fatigued, skill levels have dropped dramatically IMO
And injuries have increased too, I thought. Funny how fatigued players get injured more.
 

John Who

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And injuries have increased too, I thought. Funny how fatigued players get injured more.
Wouldn’t surprise me that more fatigue in players leads to more physical training and ironically, can lead to even more injuries! (Overcompensation?)

We saw it with our squad last year, Port’s squad this year, and a stack of serious knee injuries very early on this season across the AFL.
 

Hugh Jass

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The period of highest scoring and best skills coincided with very high interchange rates. Ever since they capped interchanges and forced players to be fatigued, skill levels have dropped dramatically IMO
This one has always baffled me. High rotations = more rest so players can be faster, put in more explosive efforts. Surely makes for more exciting footy?
 

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Brenton Davy

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With that being said, it did give Melbourne the chance to steal the game against the suns which most likely wouldn’t have happened under the old rules. Makes for exciting games if scores are close.
This.

6-6-6 has given teams the opportunity to snatch last minute victories without having to deal with flooded defences. Has made for more exciting finishes.
 
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I’ve never doubted that Pyke can coach.

I was however pretty critical of us having a few rookie assistant coaches learning AFL systems at the same time, after the North Melbourne game, but it looks like I was wrong. It’s been a very interesting few weeks.

Now I don’t see a lot of games live, so can only go by what I’ve seen on tv, but it looks like Pyke has changed the game plan between now and round 1, certainly Gary Lyon and Jonathon Brown seemed to have picked up on it live. Where as Nick Riewoldt who hasn’t seen us for a few weeks hasn’t. Now we obviously need a bigger sample size, but to change a game plan during the season Pyke deserves some kudos.

It’s looks like the coaches thought we could start playing our free wheeling 2017 game plan, at the start of the season, and thought that the new rules would mean higher scores and more free flowing football.(which was indicated in the pre-season). It looks to me that they have realised this is not the case or that our list is no longer suited to this style or it had been found out, and switched to, this tight, contested, defensive, high pressure style in a very short amount of time. The North Melbourne game may, well have been the start of the transition, I remember players stating they had been instructed to go slower.

The Freo games stands out to me, the smirk on Ross Lyons face, when he realised we were beating him at his own or similar style ( that he’d tried to move away from). We were able to break down St Kilda and Gold Coast relatively quickly.

The coaches also selected players better suited to this style. (Himmelberg instead of JJ) also CEY.

It also looks like introducing this new style, is the reason he’s been coaching from the bench, to be able to instruct players on the run, changing a plan in season would be difficult more so with out runners . It will be interesting to see if we can revert back to the old style when the situation allows maybe even mid game or we have thrown it out completely . But also how this new style holds up against better sides that will also be more prepared for it.

I could be completely wrong and they may well have been transitioning to this style all preseason, and it’s taken a few games or a few weaker sides for it to start to work.

Will certainly be an interesting few weeks even this week against a fast side like the lions and better coached sides who are now expecting this style. As this style will keep the vultures at bay from Pyke while we are winning, but start losing with this low scoring less attractive game and they will be back quick. Also Its a very energy sapping style and any drop off in intensity as seen in the last quarter against port could have us in trouble.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Absolutely no guarantee that Roughead would be half decent as a coach. Yes it was great he was coaching yesterday... but who knows what he said was right?
When Ben hart is your forwards coach, just about anybody else would be an upgrade.
 
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My take is that we've more likely had to revert to a more defensive game style due to the cattle we have. I recall seeing somewhere that we decided to play closer to the opposition player after the North debacle, and not allow too much space. Certainly this has helped our defence, as they're pretty good one on one. The fact that we lost Charlie and Gov up forward, has also meant we have to be more cautious in moving the ball forward, as we lack marking options. It'll be interesting to see how we go once we have the likes of Milera back, as I think we'll tend to move the ball a bit quicker.

The downside in all this is the likes of Eddie, who is not getting free of his opponents as easily (could be age as well of course). We do need to fix our clearances too, as the top sides will belt us if they get the differential Port had on the weekend. We need to at least break-even in this area to ensure our defence isn't under too much pressure from the better forward-lines. One other aspect of this new game plan that we need to be careful of is the toll on the team - the high pressure / running style will probably lead to burn-out, and we'll drop a few games that we probably will be favoured for. For Brissy, I'd still like to see the likes of Jones and McHenry brought in if possible - for a bit of spark and fresh legs!
 

70lethal

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Surely it would be easier to have this as game plan A then go offensive as Plan B vs the other way around.

On the MCG i think we would be in trouble without, Milera, Seedsman, McHenry/Jones.
Collingwood and Richmond (even with their injuries) would be my biggest concern with their outside run
 

jenny61_99

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When Ben hart is your forwards coach, just about anybody else would be an upgrade.
Or maybe he'd be just as bad?

Point I'm making is... good players don't always make good coaches. We are quick to slam our OWN ex players as coaches, but happy to bring on practically anyone else cause he was a ripper player. There's no logic at all. I'd prefer to take on someone who had runs on the board as an assistant/line coach, rather than green, fresh out of school ones.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Or maybe he'd be just as bad?

Point I'm making is... good players don't always make good coaches. We are quick to slam our OWN ex players as coaches, but happy to bring on practically anyone else cause he was a ripper player. There's no logic at all. I'd prefer to take on someone who had runs on the board as an assistant/line coach, rather than green, fresh out of school ones.
You're making a garbage comparison. Hawthorn have a proven track record of producing premiership winning coaches. People don't want Roughy just because he's a champion player. They want all the Hawthorn IP he would bring to the table.

Also given that Adelaide has a plethora of assistants who have been at the club for many years without winning a flag, they haven't earned the kind of reputation Hawthorn has. Why shouldn't they be scrutinised?
 
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My take is that we've more likely had to revert to a more defensive game style due to the cattle we have. I recall seeing somewhere that we decided to play closer to the opposition player after the North debacle, and not allow too much space. Certainly this has helped our defence, as they're pretty good one on one. The fact that we lost Charlie and Gov up forward, has also meant we have to be more cautious in moving the ball forward, as we lack marking options. It'll be interesting to see how we go once we have the likes of Milera back, as I think we'll tend to move the ball a bit quicker.

The downside in all this is the likes of Eddie, who is not getting free of his opponents as easily (could be age as well of course). We do need to fix our clearances too, as the top sides will belt us if they get the differential Port had on the weekend. We need to at least break-even in this area to ensure our defence isn't under too much pressure from the better forward-lines. One other aspect of this new game plan that we need to be careful of is the toll on the team - the high pressure / running style will probably lead to burn-out, and we'll drop a few games that we probably will be favoured for. For Brissy, I'd still like to see the likes of Jones and McHenry brought in if possible - for a bit of spark and fresh legs!

It seems to me, that we are playing the clearances more defensive then earlier in the season. Conceding that the other side may well win them, but we are trying to make sure, they don’t get the ball out in space and instead have to bomb it in and back our defence in. This may be an adjustment since the Geelong game, where we went all in to try and win the clearance, but In doing so let Dangerfield do what he wanted pretty well. Clean ball out of the centre with the 6v6 and even Talia will struggle 1v1. We definitely want to try and avoid a Mackay or Smth type, getting caught 1v1.

I havern’t noticed too many midfields running out of the clearances cleanly with chains of hands against us in the last few weeeks. Will definitely be difficult to maintain against a Collingwood, Richmond or full strength GWS.
 

TexForPM

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The CrowCast crew were pretty strong a few weeks ago on criticising the assistants we brought in to put around Pyke.

With the talk of a strong defensive set up has this opinion started to change?
A lot of this discussion here and credit is given to Pyke, but could it be that the back 6 structure Mattner has been working on has started to gel?

I think there’s still big queries over our mid stoppage set up as well as Hart as an assistant but to attribute all the positive to Pyke so soon after criticizing our rookie assistant additions seems a bit superficial
The Crowbar was much better
 
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