Opinion Who are the League's most UNDERRATED Players?

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juss

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What do oppo fans think of Mihocek? To me seems like a productive diamond in the rough medium/tall FWD given we essentially picked up for nothing from Port Melbourne. Am I biased in my rating of him?
It's funny the same player can actually be overrated or underrated depending on how you rate them.

I think Mihocek has been great value, can take a mark and been important structurally. There's quite a few forwards I'd take before him, but he's probably considered a 2nd/3rd fiddle and a role player. Does he get a game at every club? Not sure sure where he would fit in every forward line.
 

Grrr

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AA where? Backline? The stats you have just quoted prove he is playing more up the field than backline
Prove? He has played HB all year. He has 13 less rebounding 50's than Sheppard, which is not much over 16 games (3 less than Sheppard, which makes it even more impressive). He transitions the ball from back to forward as good as anyone. Running machine.
 

juss

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AA where? Backline? The stats you have just quoted prove he is playing more up the field than backline
He's a rebounding defender and where we launch a lot of our counterattacks through, if he's not pushing up when we have the ball he's doing it wrong.
 

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AFDogs

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Jordan Dawson is quietly becoming a gun too. Haven't heard mention of him much when talking to people/in the media.
 

Jason mp

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FRUMPY

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Prove? He has played HB all year. He has 13 less rebounding 50's than Sheppard, which is not much over 16 games (3 less than Sheppard, which makes it even more impressive). He transitions the ball from back to forward as good as anyone. Running machine.
Fair enough. In my opinion, anyone that quotes disposal stats as proof they are a better player as someone else has no idea on the game. The only way to do it is to watch every game and not have access to stats. Watch the impact of the player and not the numbers. Unfortunately it doesn't happen (who could be bothered watching all 9 games (or more than 3 a weekend)) even with the AA selectors. Watch when they explain the reasoning behind why they chose a certain player, especially backmen...

'um...ah...yeah, he average 27 disposals, um....ah....7 marks, um....ah....450 metres gained.....um....ahh....yeah, look, um.....ah....yeah.....and has been good for the past 3 years.....unlucky not to make it other years'

Wont have any details on how many goals they got kicked on them etc.
 

juss

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How many goals kicked on him? (I don't know the answer but people always quote disposals)
No idea. Can't recall him leaking multiple goals to any opponents this year, he doesn't really play a 1on1 defensive role though, he's a rebounding player from the backline, ideally we want him in space spreading from the contest. Not many games he'd play 100% of the time on 1 player.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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Fair enough. In my opinion, anyone that quotes disposal stats as proof they are a better player as someone else has no idea on the game. The only way to do it is to watch every game and not have access to stats. Watch the impact of the player and not the numbers. Unfortunately it doesn't happen (who could be bothered watching all 9 games (or more than 3 a weekend)) even with the AA selectors. Watch when they explain the reasoning behind why they chose a certain player, especially backmen...

'um...ah...yeah, he average 27 disposals, um....ah....7 marks, um....ah....450 metres gained.....um....ahh....yeah, look, um.....ah....yeah.....and has been good for the past 3 years.....unlucky not to make it other years'

Wont have any details on how many goals they got kicked on them etc.
Well it's a good job that in my initial post I said 'I know it is not a stats game,' but....
As far as impact on games go Houli has been right up there with Grimes as our best back this year. Vlaustin not far behind, and just behind Dusty and Prestia in our B & F.
He has defended well also, something he was quite weak in some years back.
But to average over 29 disposals per game for a HB is significant, especially when combined with his high inside 50 count.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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How many goals kicked on him? (I don't know the answer but people always quote disposals)
I would guess at not many, because he doesn't play in the last line of defence often. Do not recall him getting beaten one on one often, but as Jess said, he is not a tight checking type.
 

FRUMPY

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I would guess at not many, because he doesn't play in the last line of defence often. Do not recall him getting beaten one on one often, but as Jess said, he is not a tight checking type.
So your call of AA probably isn't really accurate then, in my opinion, based on what you have told me.
 

Rioli8217

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Peaking too early? What do you even mean has he peaked too early. He has hit elite level at 19, If hes this good now he will continue to get better

Give me a player that has peaked too early than a player you hang on to for four years than delist as he never peaks.


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Rhys Palmer
 

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FRUMPY

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So you want me not to quote some certain stats, but not others. Sure you don't ring the Coodabeen's talkback on Sat. mornings Stan.
Well when quoting stats for a backman for AA consideration, goals kicked against him, possession by his opponent etc also need to be quoted I would have thought. Anyone can go out and get 30 touches when he doesn't have an opponent as you and another Richmond supporter have told me is his role.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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Well when quoting stats for a backman for AA consideration, goals kicked against him, possession by his opponent etc also need to be quoted I would have thought. Anyone can go out and get 30 touches when he doesn't have an opponent as you and another Richmond supporter have told me is his role.
Goals kicked on backman, unless they are key backs is pretty hard to ascertain. Richmond like most teams these days play a rolling defence. Grimes, Broad and Astbury are closest to goals and roll onto whoever is the deepest. So there is a good chance that they have the most goals kicked on them. Grimes in particular is very hard to score on. Houli is no Grimes that is for sure, but does his defensive work pretty well. All backmen have an opponent at some stage, but he has more licence to run off than the others. So due to his attacking roll, he is unlikely to have many goals kicked on him. That is the roll of some HB's these days, to springboard. So is he a pure HB like Vlaustin no, but neither was a player like Heath Shaw when he was AA. Laird is a similar type that has gone AA.
Houli is also a long damaging kick of the ball, and he mainly kicks, so that makes him more damaging than a stats padder, of which there are plenty in the back halves these days.
 

Elmer_Judd

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What do oppo fans think of Mihocek? To me seems like a productive diamond in the rough medium/tall FWD given we essentially picked up for nothing from Port Melbourne. Am I biased in my rating of him?
Yes. Goes missing way too many times, especially in crunch moments.

Textbook C Grade player.
 

caloschwaby

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Yes. Goes missing way too many times, especially in crunch moments.

Textbook C Grade player.
I don't really think he goes missing all that often, has only had 4 goalless games (two of which he was woefully inaccurate but still took plenty of marks, it happens) this season and averages almost 1.5 per game.
He's proving pretty useful structurally especially considering the lack of options we have available and though I don't consider him a star, he's not exactly unreliable.
 

flyinghi64

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Reckon Basher Houli is quite underrated. Everyone acknowledges that he is a good player, but he really could be AA this year.

I know it is not a stats game, and I really rate WC's Brad Sheppard, and worthy of AA conversation, but if you look at the number.

Disposals - Houli - 28.3 (midfielder numbers) Sheppard 19.9
Rebound 50 - Houli - 78 Sheppard 91
Inside 50 - Houli - 47 Sheppard 21

Not only is Houli getting 30% more of the football, but has more than double the inside 50's (not as many rebounds as Sheppard, means Houli is probably playing a little more attacking and getting more ball up the ground).

Both are having career best seasons.
Just for the sake stat's, let's look at some that are more relevant and important to defenders

Spoils - Shep 72 Houli 26
Def half Pressure acts - Shep 143 Houli 129
Intercept marks - Shep 30 Houli 22
Turnovers Shep 70 Houli 85
Kick efficiency - Shep 81.2% Houli 71.3$

So yeah stat's eh
 

flyinghi64

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Don't get me wrong, Houli is a very good player. He is in my dreamteam after all.
As under rated goes though I actually think all up he get's more plaudits than Sheppard.
In that regard for the purpose of this thread Sheppard is probably more underrated.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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Just for the sake stat's, let's look at some that are more relevant and important to defenders

Spoils - Shep 72 Houli 26
Def half Pressure acts - Shep 143 Houli 129
Intercept marks - Shep 30 Houli 22
Turnovers Shep 70 Houli 85
Kick efficiency - Shep 81.2% Houli 71.3$

So yeah stat's eh
Well I wasn't comparing him to Sheppard because I think he should be AA, but said he was under rated, worth considering given his season.

Spoils, Sheppard is much more defensive, we don't use Houli in the air, given we have a lot of players like that.
Shep might be closer to Vlaustin in that respect.
Def/pressure - given Houli has played 3 less games that is pretty even, surprisingly.
Intercept marks, again see Vlaustin.
Turnovers, well considering Houli's 30% more disposals he is going to turn it over more.
Kicking efficiency, both quite good, Shep excellent.

Again, Houli is our attacking HB, and has been very good at it.
Sheppard is a much all round player and should be compared more with Vlaustin.
Where did you find these stats.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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Don't get me wrong, Houli is a very good player. He is in my dreamteam after all.
As under rated goes though I actually think all up he get's more plaudits than Sheppard.
In that regard for the purpose of this thread Sheppard is probably more underrated.
Agree there. Sheppard has had a cracking season and Houli is 30 so been around a long time.
 

Elmer_Judd

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Don't get me wrong, Houli is a very good player. He is in my dreamteam after all.
As under rated goes though I actually think all up he get's more plaudits than Sheppard.
In that regard for the purpose of this thread Sheppard is probably more underrated.
Agreed. Unfortunately on this forum, it seems the style to insult another club's player whilst heaping praise on their own.

I agree both Houli and Sheppard are guns, both underrated, but here in Victoria Shep is the more underrated player, the footy media here has woken up to how good Bachar Houli is, whereas I think it's more of a case of out sight, out of mind case with Sheppard (and Tom Barrass who is an absolute ripper of a player)

Would love a Richmond v West Coast Final, so many brilliant match ups all over the ground, would be one helluva premiership decider.
 

flyinghi64

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Well I wasn't comparing him to Sheppard because I think he should be AA, but said he was under rated, worth considering given his season.

Spoils, Sheppard is much more defensive, we don't use Houli in the air, given we have a lot of players like that.
Shep might be closer to Vlaustin in that respect.
Def/pressure - given Houli has played 3 less games that is pretty even, surprisingly.
Intercept marks, again see Vlaustin.
Turnovers, well considering Houli's 30% more disposals he is going to turn it over more.
Kicking efficiency, both quite good, Shep excellent.

Again, Houli is our attacking HB, and has been very good at it.
Sheppard is a much all round player and should be compared more with Vlaustin.
Where did you find these stats.
Yep, Houli is more comparable with Jetta or Hurn with his role I would say.
What I did notice when looking up the stat's, Bloody hell Gov is good. Def not underrated and for good reason.
Anyways good luck for the rest of the year and if we happen to meet in the finals let's hope it is the last week for a cracker.
 

RobbyRoy

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This is the underrated thread, you're not suppose to be looking for standouts. You literally just named 3 of the top defenders in the league.
I'm talking about the general public though, not us on Bigfooty who live and breathe the game. I've mentioned Haynes' name several time in conversation at work etc, unbelievable how many people don't even know who he is.
 

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