Who are the top 10 midfielders in the league?

[Hot Diggity]

Its not the be all, but surely it’s a measure that’s somewhat consistent?
How would you recommend the people measure?
If you don’t use some sort of votes or measure rolled out across the competition it’s simply becomes opinion.

I totally get what you're saying but the umpires' interpretation of the game invalidates the Brownlow in my opinion - they're ******* clueless.

I would take far more notice of what the coaches think via their respective awards (having said that, Clarko has never won it, which makes me think most coaches are ******* clueless!)

Martin is head and shoulders above all mids.

 

[Tackle Bag]

Dusty was pretty average during the H&A, people will look at his AA now + GF and think he had a great season.

He had a great finals series but your team still has to make it!

His H&A was pretty good. Not grand final good but still better than most. He is held to pretty high standards. Anyone else goes around during the year at his level and they would be considered to have had a strong season.

 

[Bird Man]

Martin is the best. He hides his true power level during the regular season and then explodes at the perfect time. Only player to have 20+ disposals and multiple goals in 3 separate GFs bar Barry Cable. Only player in history with 3 Norms. Kicked 20.2 in finals.

Doing it when it counts is what elevates him and he's the most impactful finals player ever without question in my opinion.

 

[Schauermann]

Kicked 20.2 in finals.

More like 26.11

 

[Belnakor]

His H&A was pretty good. Not grand final good but still better than most. He is held to pretty high standards. Anyone else goes around during the year at his level and they would be considered to have had a strong season.

he had a good season but his profile helped him make AA just like dangerfield. Not worth 1.3M a year for a team who isn't going to make the finals like North thats for sure.

 

[Cobbler]

I totally get what you're saying but the umpires' interpretation of the game invalidates the Brownlow in my opinion - they're ******* clueless.

I would take far more notice of what the coaches think via their respective awards (having said that, Clarko has never won it, which makes me think most coaches are ******* clueless!)

Martin is head and shoulders above all mids.

Where did Martin finish in coaches votes for mids?

 

[Hot Diggity]

Where did Martin finish in coaches votes for mids?

Very fair point Cobbler; however, the coaches also vote for the Gary Ayres Medal, which Martin has won three times...

The Brownlow has almost always been a midfielders medal, and as the game stands at the moment with its paucity of key position players, will remain so.

As for coaches deciding the best player, my previous post on this possibility stated that this may not be a good idea, as they had failed to once vote Clarko coach of the year, despite winning 4 flags...

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Cobbler]

Very fair point Cobbler; however, the coaches also vote for the Gary Ayres Medal, which Martin has won three times...

The Brownlow has almost always been a midfielders medal, and as the game stands at the moment with its paucity of key position players, will remain so.

As for coaches deciding the best player, my previous post on this possibility stated that this may not be a good idea, as they had failed to once vote Clarko coach of the year, despite winning 4 flags...

Back to the drawing board.

But the Gary Ayres is of course skewed to sides that play most finals, so of course Dusty would do well.

Do we just say Cripps isn’t a good midfielder as he has never received a Gary Ayres vote?

I like the idea of coaches votes. That makes complete sense, but is also semi flawed in that it will reward players that play the most games.

Can I add, I’m not disputing Dusty as being up there. 3 GFs and 3 Norm Smiths will make him an all time spoken about player.

 

[Hot Diggity]

But the Gary Ayres is of course skewed to sides that play most finals, so of course Dusty would do well.

Do we just say Cripps isn’t a good midfielder as he has never received a Gary Ayres vote?

I like the idea of coaches votes. That makes complete sense, but is also semi flawed in that it will reward players that play the most games.

Can I add, I’m not disputing Dusty as being up there. 3 GFs and 3 Norm Smiths will make him an all time spoken about player.

For sure, I know what you're saying - no harm done. It's an almost impossible task. I do know that the umps shouldn't have the influence they do on the Brownlow - been some shocking oversights over the years.

 

[Partridge]

Curious to see how Neale stacks up in this list now. Probably still has a fair bit to catch up on this group but what did they say he went at this year 1.82 votes a game or something crazy?

Neale has to be top 5 at least right now.

 

[Fadge]

Neale has to be top 5 at least right now.

Yep, has flown past Danger.

 

[74561347]

My neighbor's cat is aloof and mean. Cats are nasty animals.

 

[deskc]

I could choose a hundred mids they are all so talented and wonderful

 

[74561347]

When it's sunny, I see my neighbor walking his dog. He must only walk the dog when the sun is out.

 

[richcogs]

laughable those disputing. If any coach had to pick one player to bring into their team to tilt them towards finals and finals wins it would be Dusty. Love Fyfe and Neale though. Neale has become a real weapon with his goal scoring these days.

 

[Legov]

Fyfe is still better than Dusty imo

He really isn’t. Fyfe outperforms Dusty during the home and away season, but when it matters, Dusty can flick a switch and perform to a level that Fyfe is not capable of reaching (and it’s usually on the biggest stage of all).

Ever since his Brownlow, Dusty has coasted during the H&A seasons. He does what he needs to do to get the team over the line, but he barely breaks a sweat. Some of his efforts this season were laughable. Did any Richmond supporter care? No, because we all knew he was building towards September.

 

[Do the Dew]

People are forgetting that Dusty has had a complete role change since 2017. In 2017 he predominantly played as a midfielder with short stints forward. As such, he got high possession numbers and racked up brownlow votes/coaches votes etc.

Starting in 2018, and particularly in 2019/'20, he has spent considerably more time forward than he had previously. No surprise, his possession numbers decreased along with Brownlow votes because he wasn't spending all game chasing the ball through the midfield. You can't rank him alongside other pure midfielders (like Mitchell, Neale, Macrae) because he plays a different role. I'll justify this below.

People say he has less consistent H&A seasons in the past few years compared to other midfielders. Primarily, this is because his possession numbers are lower (however as I said before it is because he is playing a lot more forward). What they don't realize is that Dusty is sacrificing some possessions in the midfield but helping the Tigers win matches by playing forward. Team > Individual.

The thing people forget is that Dusty can be a dominant force in the midfield. Take Rd. 22 2019 vs West Coast as an example. The Tigers had to win to make top 4, and were coming up against arguably the best midfield in the game. So Dusty played much more time in the midfield that game and sacrificed his forward game. The result? Most possession on ground (35), 13 I50s (which was double the next highest), 1 goal, and a clear BOG.

Dusty can go play in the midfield and rack up 30 disposals week-to-week (like he did in 2017), which would clearly put him as the best midfielder in the game. But this would be detrimental to the team as a whole. You can say a similar thing about Cotchin. He sacrificed his possessions, particular in the back-half, to become a greater asset to the team. That's also why you don't see many Tigers as All-Australians, because team success > individual success. Anyone else notice that Dusty tucks his Norm Smith (x3) into his jumper, yet leaves the premiership medal outside...

 

[nineteen eighty]

he had a good season but his profile helped him make AA just like dangerfield. Not worth 1.3M a year for a team who isn't going to make the finals like North thats for sure.

This isn't the forum for this but Dusty absolutely was AA this year. He was picked as a forward mid. The bloke who didn't deserve his spot in the team was the captain. By any measure, Dusty's numbers valid his spot.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

What's the pecking order heading into season 2021?

 

[Virgin Dog]

What's the pecking order heading into season 2021?

Based on the 2020 Brownlow, it would be something like:

Neale
Boak
Petracca
Steele
Dangerfield
Martin
Macrae
Parker
Guthrie
Oliver

Bit odd having Parker and Guthrie that high, you'd think any of Merrett, Pendlebury, Shuey, Kelly (WCE), Adams, Cripps, Bontempelli, Mitchell, Fyfe or even Rowell (despite his tiny sample size) would be better picks for the top 10.

Bont, Cripps and Fyfe should all be considered top 10 without doubt.

My picks:

1. Neale
2. Fyfe
3. Martin
4. Dangerfield
5. Bontempelli
6. Cripps
7. Steele
8. Boak
9. Petracca
10. Macrae

 

[Sweet Jesus]

My picks:

1. Neale
2. Fyfe
3. Martin
4. Dangerfield
5. Bontempelli
6. Cripps
7. Steele
8. Boak
9. Petracca
10. Macrae

If you had to pick a team from scratch, I wonder how many folks would pick Neale over Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield?

 

[AjsGuns]

Based on the 2020 Brownlow, it would be something like:

Neale
Boak
Petracca
Steele
Dangerfield
Martin
Macrae
Parker
Guthrie
Oliver

Bit odd having Parker and Guthrie that high, you'd think any of Merrett, Pendlebury, Shuey, Kelly (WCE), Adams, Cripps, Bontempelli, Mitchell, Fyfe or even Rowell (despite his tiny sample size) would be better picks for the top 10.

Bont, Cripps and Fyfe should all be considered top 10 without doubt.

My picks:

1. Neale
2. Fyfe
3. Martin
4. Dangerfield
5. Bontempelli
6. Cripps
7. Steele
8. Boak
9. Petracca
10. Macrae

Not bad, think the top 6 is bang on but I'd change the order. My guess at a top 10 by the end of 2021:
Realistically 7-10 could be anything.

1. Dusty
2. Fyfe
3. Danger
4. Cripps
5. Bont
6. Neale
7. Petracca
8. Oliver
9. Macrae
10. McCluggage

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rowell, Coniglio, J Kelly, T Kelly, Mitchell etc., in the top 10. Petracca will make a real run at the Brownlow IMO if he plays midfield and gets an uninterrupted season. Danger will have a huge shot too, Geelong will win a bunch of games, he should get more midfield time, his 30 and knows this is probably his last shot at a flag. Proven vote getter winning the Charlie in 2016 and coming runner up in 2017 and 2019.

 

[Virgin Dog]

If you had to pick a team from scratch, I wonder how many folks would pick Neale over Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield?

Fyfe, Martin and Dangerfield are game winners, but Neale is the consistent performer that provides the backbone of a side. Comparing to someone like Dusty, Neale will never go missing, whereas Dusty can go entire quarters without being sighted. I'm probably being a tad generous to Neale, but the recent Brownlow win puts him 1st in my eyes. The top 6 could be randomised tbh

 

[RAPPA]

Cripps was very poor in 2020 (injuries aside, he was well below his usual standard) so heading into 2021 he stands outside of a top 10 ranking based on 2020 output.

Very easy to get caught up and rely on the “potential” or “previous form” (ie form shown a couple years ago) argument here.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Cripps was very poor in 2020 (injuries aside, he was well below his usual standard) so heading into 2021 he stands outside of a top 10 ranking based on 2020 output.

Very easy to get caught up and rely on the “potential” or “previous form” (ie form shown a couple years ago) argument here.

Depends how you want to make your list.

Do you go purely off recent power rankings? If so, Neale has to be 1st, with only Dusty (Norm Smith) in similar territory.

Do we go off expected output in 2021? If so, it's not unreasonable to predict at least one of Martin (30 this year), Danger (31 this year) or Fyfe (30 this year) to drop out of the top 10. You also have some unknowns, like Cripps coming off an injury-interrupted season, Rowell returning from injury after demonstrating in a month of footy that he is already among the best players in the competition, but is the sample size too small?

There's also expected improvement from young guys like Walsh, McCluggage, McGrath, Smith, Taranto, Bolton, etc. which could result in any of these guys pushing for top 10 territory before the end of the year.

Only thing I would hesitate to do is go off "previous" form from multiple years ago. If you did, you'd have to include the likes of Tom Mitchell, Rory Sloane, Josh Kelly, Zac Merrett, or even Dylan Shiel.