Strategy Who Captains the club in 2021? BigBoy!

[Mercy Seat]

I didn't piss & moan about Stratton because of his personality. I pissed & moaned because he was no longer part of our best 22 and would have been dropped if he wasn't captain EXACTLY LIKE THE CAPTAIN BEFORE HIM.

We're about to repeat that exact mistake for a third time in a row.



You're right, McEvoy isn't going anywhere and neither are we with a has-been captain. The club needed to grow a collective nutsack and hand the job to someone who represents the future - even if that means taking a risk. You don't win Premierships without taking risks - who at the club has stomach for them??

McEvoy was my choice for captain - YEARS AGO when that choice made sense. It doesn't now. Don't bother telling me "oh he's a temporary choice while the next generation of leaders emerges" BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THE LAST TWO CAPTAINS WERE CHOSEN, they were nothing but stop-gap choices too.

Which I guess means the Hawthorn Football Club is going absolutely nowhere, because that's how things look from the outside. No wonder everyone's leaving.

You’re talking like this is a single handed decision by Clarko. It was the players that voted him in, a process facilitated by Leading Teams and then ratified by those in charge. To go through that then overrule it and flick it on to someone you prefer is the s**t that happens at clubs that are going nowhere. Not the hawks.

 

[cryptor]

I think some are focusing a bit too much on the cons of McEvoy being captain because it was so unexpected. But when you think about what those are they're not that big a deal weighed up against the positives.

1. "He's too old, and will only be captain for 2 years max. We need continuity!" - On face value this has merit, but is it really that important? As I previously pointed out Geelong and Collingwood both have captains who started young and have long tenures, but neither club has won a flag on the back of it. Richmond is the only current example of it working out and I'd argue their success has much more to do with other factors than it does how long Cotchin has been leading.

2. "His body is broken and he'll constantly be out injured!" - Maybe it is and maybe he will, but that's not based on his track record. His body has been written off for 5+ years now and yet his track record indicates he's been remarkably resilient for a player his age playing his position the way he does. I'll also point out that if at the end of round 2 McEvoy has played in both and Gunston has missed both then 97% of people who have voted in this thread's poll will have voted for a player that has played less games than McEvoy has since the start of 2019. (All missed games through injury)

3. "He probably won't even be best 22 by the end of the year. We should look to the future!" - Again, maybe this will be the case, but currently it's not. It is notoriously hard to predict things in footy, and in particular the rise and fall of teams and players. And just because McEvoy is unlikely to be around for our next flag doesn't mean it's not a good decision for the future. Hypothetically let's say our next premiership is in 5 years and Worpel is the premiership captain. Is Worpel better served by being named captain right now and getting a few extra years of experience in the role under his belt? Or is he better off getting similar experience by being exposed to better qualified captains from his position in the leadership group? Honestly who knows, it might not make a difference in the long term. But in the immediate short term it would definitely be better to have the most qualified captain. And McEvoy has been determined by the club to be that guy.

I honestly can't see McEvoy letting the club down as captain. The only things that really stand in his way are things that are outside of his direct control. If his body breaks down then so be it, but that's exactly why we have a vice captain and a leadership group.

 

[A Cut Above]

3. "He probably won't even be best 22 by the end of the year. We should look to the future!" - Again, maybe this will be the case, but currently it's not. It is notoriously hard to predict things in footy

It isn't hard to predict a 31 year old who's body no longer allows him to play in his best position and hasn't set the world on fire in his new one isn't likely to thrive and may struggle like our last two captains.

 

[PenAndPaper]

It isn't hard to predict a 31 year old who's body no longer allows him to play in his best position and hasn't set the world on fire in his new one isn't likely to thrive and may struggle like our last two captains.

I honestly don't think that playing Big Boy in defence was because his body was 'cooked', I think it was more because we needed a strong marking defender that could play on talls & wanted to give Ceglar a solid run at the #1 ruck as we signed him to a 3 year deal.

I really don't think McEvoy's body is as cooked as some suggest on here.

 

[hawkdork83]

It isn't hard to predict a 31 year old who's body no longer allows him to play in his best position and hasn't set the world on fire in his new one isn't likely to thrive and may struggle like our last two captains.

I don't think the move was made because his body is 'cooked' or anything. But gee, if he struggles in this role, given he has slimmed down and if Ceglar is playing well, it's going to become an unwanted issue... again.

 

[hawkguru]

I find it hard to believe that the players overlooked Gunston over Mc'envoy as caption even though Gunston will miss some games this year he was my clear choice as caption followed by Mitchell and Jaeger

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I don't think the move was made because his body is 'cooked' or anything. But gee, if he struggles in this role, given he has slimmed down and if Ceglar is playing well, it's going to become an unwanted issue... again.

i think BB is far too smart of a player and far too hard of a worker to struggle in any role as long as his body holds up

if he's been signed off as captain by the board and coaching staff you'd have to imagine they think he can handle it at least for the next season or two

 

[cryptor]

It isn't hard to predict a 31 year old who's body no longer allows him to play in his best position and hasn't set the world on fire in his new one isn't likely to thrive and may struggle like our last two captains.

It IS hard to predict though. As I said, people have been writing off McEvoy due to his body for years now. Yet he's still on the list, he's still playing pretty much every week, and he's still performing well in those games.

The club has a method for tracking declining performance over time and they've used that with varying levels of success to make tough calls on many of our older players in the past. Would they really allow McEvoy to take the captaincy if their data indicated he was unlikely to be able to continue on like he has been in 2021?

It doesn't mean he's guaranteed to not have his body fail on him in 2021. The same way Gunston could just as easily have a setback with his back, or Mitchell with his shoulders, or O'Meara with his knee. This is why we have vice captains and a leadership group where others can step up.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Best of luck Big Boy! Would have loved him to taken the role when Stratts was announced, but still have no issue considering his obvious leadership and passion.

Worpel being part of the leadership group is the big news here. I would suspect it will be the perfect time to handover the position when Big Boy retires in a couple of years.

At this rate I don't see JOM or Titch ever captaining the club.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Congrats to Ben! I think he will do a good job, happy with this appointment.

 

[hawkdork83]

i think BB is far too smart of a player and far too hard of a worker to struggle in any role as long as his body holds up

if he's been signed off as captain by the board and coaching staff you'd have to imagine they think he can handle it at least for the next season or two

Hopefully mate, but transforming from a ruck to a key defender in your 30's is pretty much unheard of. I thought he was OK last year, but I'm still not sold.

 

[The hands of stone]

Congrats big man. Was surprised at first but then started thinking about character and person. One of the best, highly regarded and is always bandaged up .

Cornes has already started. Just said how can you choose a captain that isn’t an automatic walk up into the best 22! This shows how little the bloke knows about footy and our club. What a knob!

Cornes goes fishing every Friday on his show , its amazing how many he catches.

 

[A Cut Above]

The club has a method for tracking declining performance over time and they've used that with varying levels of success

Whatever method they used failed conclusively in the choice of our last two captains, and the latest captain's circumstance follows a similar enough pattern that the outcome is more likely to be similar than dissimilar.

Would they really allow McEvoy to take the captaincy if their data indicated he was unlikely to be able to continue on like he has been in 2021?

I wouldn't trust their data after they selected Roughead then Stratton. Their data also indicated JOM & Wingard were worth trading the kitchen sink for.

Frankly I'm not inclined to trust a lot of what the club's been doing the past few years.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Hopefully mate, but transforming from a ruck to a key defender

this in general is pretty rare

as others have said, a lot of the blame was placed on Stratt's doorstep during his tenure and while he wasn't great the problem should never be with one leader, but the entire group

and by contrast, success shouldn't be the result of one leader but that of the group

authoritarian leaderships in the AFL, as far as I know, are pretty much non-existent

 

[WWSD]

McEvoy was not even an option in the poll.

 

[cryptor]

Whatever method they used failed conclusively in the choice of our last two captains, and the latest captain's circumstance follows a similar enough pattern that the outcome is more likely to be similar than dissimilar.

We had each of our last two captains for two years each. They both performed perfectly fine in their first years. Roughead had a sharp decline due to the toll of the cancer recovery. And Stratton was really no worse performed than the majority of his teammates last year which was a year with plenty of unprecedented circumstances.

I wouldn't trust their data after they selected Roughead then Stratton. Their data also indicated JOM & Wingard were worth trading the kitchen sink for.

Frankly I'm not inclined to trust a lot of what the club's been doing the past few years.

O'Meara and Wingard are irrelevant here. This data is long term internal records used to know when the call needs to be made on our players coming to the end of their careers. It definitely got it right for Sewell, Lake, Hale, and Lewis. We'll soon get to see if it got Frawley right too.


And anyway, if McEvoy doesn't make it all the way then O'Meara takes over from VC and there's little to no difference than if he'd just been named captain straight up. Of all our current issues and potential issues, this one really isn't a big deal.

 

[phlogiston]

This strikes me as an excellent tactical and strategic decision.

Being a leader during periods of turmoil (corporate: GFC, footy: losing a lot and rebuilding) takes it out of people (based on personal experience and talking to others), and potentially leads to faster burnout.

Big Boy appears to have both the mental fortitude and values set to help steer the club through the next 1-2 years, copt a lot of the heat, and hand over the ship to the next captain when it's sailing on a better course. He's a leader who role models behaviours, which is perfect when we are getting more younger players through the draft rather than trading draft picks for established players.

Whether the club has appointed stop gaps in the past is immaterial. This decision to appoint Big Boy to provide aerial cover during a period of uncertainty for the next captain should results in a longer / better quality tenure of his successor.

P

 

[SammyC]

Good appointment. I just hope this key defender experiment is over.robbed us of one of our most reliable strengths. He beats average rucks and breaks even (at worst) against good ones. A competitive beast and leader. Cegs too inconsistent in his competitiveness and liable for odd shocker.

Even more so when I think we should be building a long term defensive unit. The ingredients are there.

I want our new skipper to be in the middle, influencing games, and using his massive engine to run younger opponents into the ground. His body may be banged up, so miss a few games - good back up in cegs will be waiting at box hill.

sicily or worpel in 2 years.

 

[The hands of stone]

Perfect for where we are at now . We probably have a tough year ahead so a reliable, steady and courageous skipper tick the boxes for mine.

Its a good carrot for JOM , Titch , Sicily and whoever else has leadership aspirations. Make them earn it and want it .

Its not a short sighted move , its the best move given where we are right now.
Last thing any side needs is an inexperienced leader floundering under the pressure if things get tough for us.

Good luck BB , he will do a great job for us.

 

[Coathanger]

Wow, There’s some cowards in here making rubbish statements, which is very sad to see.
Get behind Macca and the club you gutless snipers!

 

[parsons nose]

I didn't piss & moan about Stratton because of his personality. I pissed & moaned because he was no longer part of our best 22 and would have been dropped if he wasn't captain EXACTLY LIKE THE CAPTAIN BEFORE HIM.

We're about to repeat that exact mistake for a third time in a row.



You're right, McEvoy isn't going anywhere and neither are we with a has-been captain. The club needed to grow a collective nutsack and hand the job to someone who represents the future - even if that means taking a risk. You don't win Premierships without taking risks - who at the club has stomach for them??

McEvoy was my choice for captain - YEARS AGO when that choice made sense. It doesn't now. Don't bother telling me "oh he's a temporary choice while the next generation of leaders emerges" BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THE LAST TWO CAPTAINS WERE CHOSEN, they were nothing but stop-gap choices too.

Which I guess means the Hawthorn Football Club is going absolutely nowhere, because that's how things look from the outside. No wonder everyone's leaving.

I think you’re waaaay over playing the role of captain in this instance.

 

[DannyJ]

this isn't true, though admittedly it has come a couple years later than it should've

we've taken all our picks to the draft the past 2 years and moved on around 1000 games of experience

if that isn't rebuilding i don't know what the fu** is

Trading some senior players for draft picks. That's part of rebuilding

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Perfect for where we are at now . We probably have a tough year ahead so a reliable, steady and courageous skipper tick the boxes for mine.

Its a good carrot for JOM , Titch , Sicily and whoever else has leadership aspirations. Make them earn it and want it .

Its not a short sighted move , its the best move given where we are right now.
Last thing any side needs is an inexperienced leader floundering under the pressure if things get tough for us.

Good luck BB , he will do a great job for us.

Big Boy will handle the media fine. Never misses a beat whenever he was called upon to do a presser. Always gave a little back just to make sure no one was kicking the club which I can guarantee will continue now. He is a very driven individual and will set a new standard for the boys to follow. Doesn't muck around is all business which is exactly what we need right now no more sideshow clown stuff like we had under Stratts.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

Wow, There’s some cowards in here making rubbish statements, which is very sad to see.
Get behind Macca and the club you gutless snipers!

It’s a discussion forum, people are allowed to have opinions. McEvoy should of been captain years ago, it might be another stratton or rough situation. People have every right to be skeptical. Hopefully it works out and McEvoy still has 2 years of good footy left. No need to call people gutless and cowards for not agreeing with a decision!

 

[MrPremiership]

Given 2021 and 2022 are likely to be dour years, being a skipper will be a tough gig. I reckon that's why they have shielded Mitchell and O'Meara for it and given it to McEvoy on the last legs of his career..