Who do you think should vote for the Brownlow Medal??

[WCE2000]

Personally, i think the players should vote for the Brownlow Medal, like its done for the Allan Border Medal.

The players would all get a card were they put their 3-2-1 down. Then at the end of the match, the highest vote getter would get 3 votes, the second highest 2 votes, and the third highest 1 vote.

The Brownlow Medal is one of the most prestigous sporting awards in this country from any sport. But wouldn't you think it means a lot more to the players to be voted number 1 by the players, than by the umps (who most players hate).

The AFLPA MVP is voted for by the players, but that isn't done in the same format as the Brownlow, the way the do it is the players vote for who has been number 1 in the year, and the person with the most votes wins.

But it could be worse. It could be like the Rugby League, where the media (so called 'experts') vote for their player of the year.

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[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 24 March 2001).]

 

[play on]

The question is would a player ever vote for a player from the opposition?


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Play on says the umpire
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[Same Old's]

Originally posted by play on:
The question is would a player ever vote for a player from the opposition?

Yes they would. This sort of system happens in most other countries.

 

[Frodo]

Good point Play on.

I would prefer to see a neutral ex player appointed to give points at each match, funded by the AFL.He could be part of a panel of say 12 that went to the games. This also gives another 12 jobs for ex footy players.
The umpires have enough to do in officiating the game without having to judge individual performances at the same time.

 

[WCE2000]

Originally posted by play on:
The question is would a player ever vote for a player from the opposition?

thats under 12's stuff that. The players are so professional now days that i would be very suprised if that would ever be a case of bias towards your teammates.

100 years ago, stuff like that might happen, but not now.

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[magpie_joffa]

ME

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good ole collingwood for ever,we know how to play the game,side by side we stick together to uphold the REAL magpies name,see the barrackers are shouting,as all barrackers should,YES the premiership's a cakewalk for the good ole collingwood.
http://www.mp3.com/joffa

 

[Same Old's]

You can't count, Joffa. So your out of the running.

[This message has been edited by Same Old's (edited 24 March 2001).]

 

[JUBJUB]

MIKE SHEAHAN

Well he thinks he's an expert

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"FIGHTING WITH ALL OUR MIGHT"

 

[RogerC]

Good Lord! What's the matter with the Brownlow Medal the way it is? You can propose the back-slapping, Allan Border Medal type player voting system for the club best-and-fairests if you like, but I'd prefer to keep the Brownlow, with all its flaws, as it is.

We're all biased, media, fans, umpires and players alike. I certainly don't think any player can have a clear overall view of all the players on the ground, especially full forwards, full backs, who are restricted to one small bit of the ground, and taggers, who spend their whole match staring at a particular opponent. I'm sorry, but that is a ludicrous suggestion. Even the Australian cricket team wouldn't countenance a system whereby they vote for players from other countries.

Leave the Brownlow alone. If anything, I would go along with Frodo's suggestion. But for mine, the Brownlow is the Brownlow, and if it wasn't voted for by the umpires, it would need to be re-named as well.

 

[Joel]

The umpires. Lets not screw up something else.

 

[WCE2000]

Before you make a judgement, who do you think was the better player in the following years:

1982 Leigh Matthews or Brian Wilson
1983 Terry Daniher or Ross Glendining
1984 Russell Greene or Peter Moore
1985 Greg Williams or Brad Hardie
1986 Paul Roos or Robert DiPierdomenico or Greg Williams
1989 Tim Watson or Paul Couch
1990 Darren Millane or Tony Liberatore
1992 Jason Dunstall or Scott Wynd
1993 Gary Ablett or Gavin Wanganeen
1995 Wayne Carey or Paul Kelly
1996 Corey McKernan or James Hird or Michael Voss
1998 Wayne Carey or Robert Harvey
2000 Anthony Koutoufides or Shane Woewodin

The years missing there was when the Brownlow Medalist and the AFLPA MVP was the same player.

Anyway, i would have to see that in almost all of those years, the AFLPA MVP was the better player.

I also liked Frodo's suggestions of having past players vote.

But one thing i dont get. Everyone constantly bags the umpires, bag some of the decisions in the Brownlow Medal, but then when someone suggests changing the way it is run, people don't want to change.

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[CJH]

Absolutely must keep the umpires.

The Brownlonw Medal is the highest individual honour available to a player and has reached this level of ........ due to the perceived integrity and lack of bias the umpires have.

I especially love it when the umpires get it so right, flying in the face of so called expert opinion.

Paul Kelly is the best example of this. He was a rank outsider the year he won it, but it was a fitting result and served to highlight what a champion player he is.

I think the same will come true for Shane Woewodin - another fitting winner who the experts didn't pick.

The Brownlow system isn't broke - leave it as it is.

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[WCE2000]

CJH:

Paul Kelly has gone on to be a champion, but he wasn't the best player in 1995.

Same with Woewodin, and just about all of those players on that list.

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[RogerC]

WCE, you answered your own question earlier, when you explained how the AFLPA MVP is voted. If you make a value judgment at the end of the year, the result is probably going to be different from that obtained by voting game by game. A player who is consistently 3rd or 4th best on the ground week in, week out, isn't going to get many Brownlow votes no matter who votes. Even though he may be regarded as the best player overall. The voting systems are markedly different.

And again, the most valuable player may not be the best AND fairest player.

I reckon if you were to ask the umpires to nominate their best player at the end of the year, you's have similar results to the AFLPA MVP winners. But the unpredictability is what makes the Brownlow so special. None of the winners have been complete duds. Pretty much all of them have a claim to best and fairest.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by WCE2000:
CJH:

Paul Kelly has gone on to be a champion, but he wasn't the best player in 1995.

Same with Woewodin, and just about all of those players on that list.

How can you say they werent the best player in that year??
Did you watch every single solitary game that year? Or are a sheep going with who the media reckon was the greatest player?
People think Wanganeen stole the brownlow form Williams in 93...maybe so, but Wanganeen had an AWESOME year in 93, and fully deserve it. Every player who wins the medal deserves to win it, as they have obviously had an outstanding year. Yes Koutafides had a fantastic year, but he missed a few games, and didnt play to well early in the season...most of his votes came in the middle-75% of the season range where he controlled 3 or 4 games in a row. Woewodin was more consistent obviously, and the umpires obviously thought he was one of the top 3 players on the ground on quite a few occasions, hence him winning the brownlow. Its all subjective. And it all mainly has to do with who wins the game. Its pretty much fact that the team who wins the game will usually get the majority of brownlow votes unless its a very close game. Buckley has been unlucky this way, because he is a great player but his team hasnt won enough games for him to be in contention for some brownlows.

What your trying to say is, some players who win it dont deserve it, which is just rubbish

 

[WCE2000]

first off as a general rule of thumb, disagree with just about everything in the media.

You know Macca, i could say the exact same thing about you. I could say your a sheep going with what the umpires say, so it works both ways.

All the players who have won the Brownlow Medal are great players. obviously they don't win the Brownlow if your a hack.

But i think most winners of the Brownlow weren't the best players in that particular year.

last year, i didn't think Anthony Koutifidies was the best, but he was better than Woewodin. I thought Nathan Buckley would have to win the Brownlow Medal, but it wasn't to be.

My post on the various AFLPA MVP/Brownlow Medal winners, was to show you that the winner of the MVP is, more often than not, the better player to the Brownlow Medalist.


Basically, all i am saying, wouldn't the Brownlow Medal be held in even higher Esteem than it already is, if the actual players decided who was the best player???

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[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 25 March 2001).]

 

[Hit The Boundary Saints]

I actually have more of a problem with the 3-2-1 voting system than with the umpires. Such as system will discriminate against the Koutafides / Careys of the world who absolutely dominate games, but can only gather 3 votes for a game. It favours more the Harveys / Buckleys / etc who play at the same level week by week without potentially dominating games like Carey does. 1998 is a great example, we remember Carey for about 8 weeks in the middle of the season playing unbelievable footy, but Harvey was never going to lose that year (he got 32 votes) because he was going from round 1. The MVP will always honour the more explosive player, because the peaks are remembered, and rattled off by Sheehan etc.

 

[kangas biggest fan]

nah they wouldnt have time to watch a player do well they should be concentrating

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by CJH:
Absolutely must keep the umpires.

The Brownlonw Medal is the highest individual honour available to a player and has reached this level of ........ due to the perceived integrity and lack of bias the umpires have.

I especially love it when the umpires get it so right

That is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read in my life............

 

[Frodo]

If Peter Matera had played for any Vic club he would have had at least 3 Brownlows.

So much to lack of bias..