Who feels sorry for St Kilda - the only drought remaining!

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PJays

All Australian
Nov 2, 2020
804
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I feel for Mayo. Probably only a Pies fan could.
Collingwood had to agonise through 9 unsuccessful Grand Finals before breaking through in 1990.
Many just as bizzare as anything County Mayo in Ireland has been through.
1964. 4 point loss. A back pocket player 100m out of position kicked the winning goal. His only goal for the year!
1966. 1 point loss
1970. 44 points up, but still lose
1977. Draw the Grand Final. Lose the replay.
1979. 5 point loss. Wayne Harmes
1980. Make GF, but out classed
1981. Leading Gf at 3/4, but lose again

Plus
1965. Lose Second Semi by 1 point
1969. Minor Premiers, but lose both finals
1972. Double chance, lose both finals.
1973. Lose Prelim after being 45 point up
1975. Lose Elimination Final by 5 points
1978. Lose Prelim 12 points

Between 1958 and 1990,
Collingwood made the finals 21 times for 0 flags.
Twenty one times in a row they failed.
Within the 21 finals failures, 12 times they had the Double Chance.
I do feel for the Saints, but good grief footy can be cruel.
When you put it like that....

Don't wanna tempt fate but in another 20 years St Kilda might match this. We're off to a flying start with 1991 (First McIntyre final 6- only time in history this ridiculous system was used), 97 (up at 1/2 time GF), 04 (prelim ground invasion- GF awaiting against a cooked Bris who we had beaten in 03 and 04), 05 (leading at 3qt in home prelim with home GF awaiting), and of course 09 and 10.

Incredibly 3 of those losses were part of the catalyst for changing rules:

- Ground invasions (04 Prelim- G Train)
- Instant replay system (09 GF- Hawkins)
- Extra time instead of Replay (2010)

Arguably with current rules St Kilda would've likely won a flag, if not 2 or 3.
 

Lemma

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Yeah, not sure why people omit Fitzroy/Lions drought being broken in 2001. Was actually 57 years. The same length as Melbourne.
It's because most people - rightly or wrongly - consider the Lions history as an extension of the Bears history, rather than an extension of Fitzroy's history. To a lot of Fitzroy supporters, their club ceased to exist (in the national comp) in 1996.
 

Jack Green

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It's because most people - rightly or wrongly - consider the Lions history as an extension of the Bears history, rather than an extension of Fitzroy's history. To a lot of Fitzroy supporters, their club ceased to exist (in the national comp) in 1996.
Yep - Couple of my Roy-boy mates were gutted- they never went to a game of footy again.
 

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Ads734

Club Legend
Jan 24, 2013
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Clarke and Coffield in consecutive picks ahead of Naughton.

We all make mistakes especially my mob but the successful clubs seem to make less of those howlers
erhaps let’s hold on this one I’m still supremely bullish on both but Clark especially getting knocked out twice cruel him this year was close to best on the final last year against the Dogs, Coff had a down year after finnishing 5 th in the bnf. Naughton a freak no doubt.
 

Ads734

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I realise that. I’m talking about how you feel about the development of those 2 players and whether or not they are progressing as you’d like considering that you would watch them every week. I’m not comparing them with their draft year peers, I was just trying to get some insight. From a distance it seems like they’re treading water and when you have a double go like that you’d hope that they might be a core component of your list going forward.
lark started the season well played a great game against hawthorn getting 33 touches on the ball. He’s a gun user so winning more pill is his biggest area for improvement then he got injured and knocked out twice. He will be a gun. Coff had a down year as did the team. Still finnished5th in the bnf last year. Improvement isn’t always linear. I have faith in both.
 

Dogga6

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I wrote this during this year's finals about where I thought St Kilda's list was at.

Still have questions around their list.

Besides Steele who i think is a star, there isn't a player that jumps at you with 'star' like qualities. Actually Max King is probably one who I think will explode next year.

I still have question marks over Brad Crouch and Zak Jones. While good solid role players, they aren't in the calibre of Petracca, Oliver, Bontempelli, Bailey Smith and Ollie Wines.
In 8 seasons of his career Zak Jones has not had a season where he's played every game. This is due to injuries most of the time and form. I struggle to think how his body will hold up as he gets older. Crouch was able to get his body right this year and played a solid role. But he'll be 28 next year so again, can he take his game to another level?

Their defence is a bit of a worry. It was probably obvious when they went and recruited James Frawley to add further depth. Frawley and Carlile have now retired so that makes their depth quiet thin. Howard is an okay player, but again he wouldn't even be top 10 defenders of the game.

Forward line is pretty good. The form of King in the last few games just gives you real glimpse of the star he can become. Really rate him highly and you can easily build a forward line around him for the next few years. Sharman will be a handy player for them once he gets a full pre season under his belt. Love his contested marking and work rate to get up the field. They have some handy small forwards who can easily play their role pretty well. Higgins, Butler and Gresham are good impact players and provide good pressure around the forward 50 arc.

Going into next year I still have question marks over Hill, Ryder, Hannerbery, Ross and Billings to a lower degree.
 
Last edited:

staffonly

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I wrote this during this year's finals about where I thought St Kilda's list was at.

Still have questions around their list.

Besides Steele who think is a star, there isn't a player that jumps at you with 'star' like qualities. Actually Max King is probably one who I think will explode next year.

I still have question marks over Brad Crouch and Zac Jones. While good solid role players, they aren't in the calibre of Petracca, Oliver, Bontempelli, Bailey Smith and Ollie Wines.
In 8 seasons of his career Zak Jones has not a season where he's played every game. This is due to injury most of the time and form. I struggle to think how his body will hold up as he gets older. Crouch was able to get his body right this year and played a solid role. But he'll be 28 next year so again, can he take his game to another level?

Their defence is a bit of a worry. It was probably obvious when they went and recruited James Frawley to add further depth. Frawley and Carlile are have now retired so that makes their depth quite thin. Howard is an okay player, but again he wouldn't even be top 10 defenders of the game.

Forward line is pretty good. The form of King in the last few games just gives you real glimpse of the star he can become. Really rate him highly and you can easily build a forward line around him for the next few years. Sharman will be a handy player for them once he gets a full pre season under his belt. Love his contested marking and work rate to get up the field. They have some handy small forwards who can easily play their role pretty well. Higgins, Butler and Gresham are good impact players and provide good pressure around the forward 50 arc.

Going into next year I still have question marks over Hill, Ryder, Hannerbery, Ross and Billings to a lower degree.
You included Bailey Smith in there really??? As for Howard he'd be your best defender.
 

Jack Green

Senior List
Feb 14, 2018
150
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St Kilda
I wrote this during this year's finals about where I thought St Kilda's list was at.

Still have questions around their list.

Besides Steele who think is a star, there isn't a player that jumps at you with 'star' like qualities. Actually Max King is probably one who I think will explode next year.

I still have question marks over Brad Crouch and Zac Jones. While good solid role players, they aren't in the calibre of Petracca, Oliver, Bontempelli, Bailey Smith and Ollie Wines.
In 8 seasons of his career Zak Jones has not a season where he's played every game. This is due to injury most of the time and form. I struggle to think how his body will hold up as he gets older. Crouch was able to get his body right this year and played a solid role. But he'll be 28 next year so again, can he take his game to another level?

Their defence is a bit of a worry. It was probably obvious when they went and recruited James Frawley to add further depth. Frawley and Carlile are have now retired so that makes their depth quite thin. Howard is an okay player, but again he wouldn't even be top 10 defenders of the game.

Forward line is pretty good. The form of King in the last few games just gives you real glimpse of the star he can become. Really rate him highly and you can easily build a forward line around him for the next few years. Sharman will be a handy player for them once he gets a full pre season under his belt. Love his contested marking and work rate to get up the field. They have some handy small forwards who can easily play their role pretty well. Higgins, Butler and Gresham are good impact players and provide good pressure around the forward 50 arc.

Going into next year I still have question marks over Hill, Ryder, Hannerbery, Ross and Billings to a lower degree.
Yep, IMOgot the list pretty well summarised. 👍
Solid but not star power and jump into premiership calculations. In that middle band of sides 6-12 where a good run with injury would see them sneak back end of 8 and win a final like last year . Bad run closer to 12th like this year. Good spread of the support staff, but outside Steele lack the 3-4 to half dozen elite players you need to challenge :think: Obviously hoping a King,Gresham,Clarke,Marshall in that 22 -25 age group jump up to join Steele as an A grader. Suspect most footy scribes at end of trade period and fixture out will have them hovering just in or outside the 8, and I expect that will be about right!!
 

g_TRAIN

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I wrote this during this year's finals about where I thought St Kilda's list was at.

Still have questions around their list.

Besides Steele who think is a star, there isn't a player that jumps at you with 'star' like qualities. Actually Max King is probably one who I think will explode next year.

I still have question marks over Brad Crouch and Zac Jones. While good solid role players, they aren't in the calibre of Petracca, Oliver, Bontempelli, Bailey Smith and Ollie Wines.
In 8 seasons of his career Zak Jones has not a season where he's played every game. This is due to injury most of the time and form. I struggle to think how his body will hold up as he gets older. Crouch was able to get his body right this year and played a solid role. But he'll be 28 next year so again, can he take his game to another level?

Their defence is a bit of a worry. It was probably obvious when they went and recruited James Frawley to add further depth. Frawley and Carlile are have now retired so that makes their depth quite thin. Howard is an okay player, but again he wouldn't even be top 10 defenders of the game.

Forward line is pretty good. The form of King in the last few games just gives you real glimpse of the star he can become. Really rate him highly and you can easily build a forward line around him for the next few years. Sharman will be a handy player for them once he gets a full pre season under his belt. Love his contested marking and work rate to get up the field. They have some handy small forwards who can easily play their role pretty well. Higgins, Butler and Gresham are good impact players and provide good pressure around the forward 50 arc.

Going into next year I still have question marks over Hill, Ryder, Hannerbery, Ross and Billings to a lower degree.
This is well said and thought out. We hold out hope though. Hope that that guys like Clark, Gresham, Marshall, Higgins etc can elivate their games and become star's. Injuries have certainly held them all back in 2020.

Even Highmore and Sharman have sown a lot as first year players.

Your also right about Zac Jones he has shown in some game he can absoloutly put together an eleite performance but he hasn't been able to do it consistantly (that may be partly because of injury)
 

PJays

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Agree with above criticisms.

Steele a genuine elite star.

King will get there in 2023, if he stays healthy. He's already showed massive potential but I expect him to be doing it consistently by 2023, and be All Australian level.

Marshall very good, despite his age (25) only played 65 games. May yet become elite.

Need more stars than this though.

The longer term issue is the huge group of players we have aged 25-27 (Howard, Jones, Membrey, Marshall, Steele, Billings, Butler, Crouch, Sinclair, Wilkie...half the team). By the time King really starts peaking in 2023/2024, they'll be heading towards 30.

We won't win the flag in 2022. But once you have a genuine stud AA key forward (where I expect King will be from 2023) then you're a chance.

How do we effectively find younger players as those guys age, despite lacking good draft picks, given the current group is good enough to remain mid tier for several years?

And how do we get an elite midfield? Current crew not quite there.
 

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Dogga6

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You included Bailey Smith in there really??? As for Howard he'd be your best defender.
Howard would be our best defender? You're dead set kidding yourself.

As for Smith I have him there because not only has he had a consistent year, his finals series was next level. He's a goal kicking mid who averaged 23.6 disposals and kicked 17 goals (comparison Jack Steele kicked kicked 13) for the year, so he's added another strong element to his game by being a goal kicking mid. He's only 21 and his potential is enormous.

There's no one at St Kilda at the age that I see coming through who's got the potential to be an A grade
 

dylan93

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I'm hoping they get another one soon.

Got a soft spot for them for my Nan.

Similar to the Dogs, even with minimal flags to their name they've had some ripper players throughout the years.
 

Dogga6

Team Captain
May 11, 2021
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This is well said and thought out. We hold out hope though. Hope that that guys like Clark, Gresham, Marshall, Higgins etc can elivate their games and become star's. Injuries have certainly held them all back in 2020.

Even Highmore and Sharman have sown a lot as first year players.

Your also right about Zac Jones he has shown in some game he can absoloutly put together an eleite performance but he hasn't been able to do it consistantly (that may be partly because of injury)
Sharman reminds me so much of Bayley Fritsch. His last game against Freo was very impressive.
 

Jack Green

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Sharman reminds me so much of Bayley Fritsch. His last game against Freo was very impressive.
Yep, Played 5 - kicked 10 - looked immediately very comfortable at AFL level. And I suppose that's where you need to get creative with your drafting. Sharman's 21 . 3 years ago we picked up Callum Wilkie at 22 who had been BOG in the SANFL grand final for North Adelaide . 3 seasons later he hasn't missed a game , one of the first picked , in leadership group and 3rd I think in b and f. Held Franklin to 4 disposals ,has scalps like Reiwoldt and Gunston over past few years.

Point is ,players like Sharman and Highmore they are not 18-19 year old kids, but played senior footy for a few years and are ready to go. Don't cost much either-they are happy just to get a spot on an AFL list as have been overlooked and think their AFL dream was over before it started. Play them on 1 year contracts on base wage - no good flick em 👍- good re- contract. Those 3 from SANFL [ Wilkie already is] look to be very capable AFL players. High hopes for the other 2 as well but I do remember players like Georgiadis at Footscray who can be a flash in a pan!! Time will tell 👍
 

g_TRAIN

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Yep, Played 5 - kicked 10 - looked immediately very comfortable at AFL level. And I suppose that's where you need to get creative with your drafting. Sharman's 21 . 3 years ago we picked up Callum Wilkie at 22 who had been BOG in the SANFL grand final for North Adelaide . 3 seasons later he hasn't missed a game , one of the first picked , in leadership group and 3rd I think in b and f. Held Franklin to 4 disposals ,has scalps like Reiwoldt and Gunston over past few years.

Point is ,players like Sharman and Highmore they are not 18-19 year old kids, but played senior footy for a few years and are ready to go. Don't cost much either-they are happy just to get a spot on an AFL list as have been overlooked and think their AFL dream was over before it started. Play them on 1 year contracts on base wage - no good flick em 👍- good re- contract. Those 3 from SANFL [ Wilkie already is] look to be very capable AFL players. High hopes for the other 2 as well but I do remember players like Georgiadis at Footscray who can be a flash in a pan!! Time will tell 👍
5 games but actually 3.5 because he was a sub that never got on the field in one game and in his other game he came on only at half time.

3.5 games 10 goals.
 

staffonly

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Howard would be our best defender? You're dead set kidding yourself.

As for Smith I have him there because not only has he had a consistent year, his finals series was next level. He's a goal kicking mid who averaged 23.6 disposals and kicked 17 goals (comparison Jack Steele kicked kicked 13) for the year, so he's added another strong element to his game by being a goal kicking mid. He's only 21 and his potential is enormous.

There's no one at St Kilda at the age that I see coming through who's got the potential to be an A grade
No I'm not Howard is better than any tall defender as is Wilkie that you have. As for Smith he plays forward of the ball and should be scoring. If you consider him a star you cannot leave King out.
 

Dogga6

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No I'm not Howard is better than any tall defender as is Wilkie that you have. As for Smith he plays forward of the ball and should be scoring. If you consider him a star you cannot leave King out.
Laughable. Dead set actually laughable if you think Howard is better then May and Lever. I get we are all bias at times but this is just outright taking the piss.

As for King, it's obvious my initial post went over your head. I pretty much said he's a star who's got potential to explode next year.

You still don't have anyone in the calibre of Smith on your list. At 21 years old he's doing things not many kids that age are doing at this level and he'll only get better.
 

staffonly

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Laughable. Dead set actually laughable if you think Howard is better then May and Lever. I get we are all bias at times but this is just outright taking the piss.

As for King, it's obvious my initial post went over your head. I pretty much said he's a star who's got potential to explode next year.

You still don't have anyone in the calibre of Smith on your list. At 21 years old he's doing things not many kids that age are doing at this level and he'll only get better.
My mistake looked at the name Dogga and just assumed.
 

Freomaniac

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Unfortunately we missed the boat when it came to charity flags against interstate teams like the Bulldogs and Richmond got back in 2016 and 2017.

Back in 1997 you still had to earn a flag without help from the umpires and in 2009 and 2010 we were up against two high quality Victorian opponents.
And despite the underdog tag the saints had in those 2009 and 2010 grand finals, Saints could of easily nabbed a flag or 2.

2009: Yeah... wet conditions played their part. Saints lead for large parts in that grand final. Saints kicked 9.14.68. Had it been a fine and sunny day, Saints would of kicked 13.10.88 or 14.9.93 or 15.8.98 from 23 scoring shots While cats still would of kicked 11.8.74 or 12.8.80. So potentially a 2-4 goal win for the saints.

2010: saints were down by 4 goals at half time and produced a fight back. there were at least a couple of highlights for the saints in that 2010 draw. Not going to bother to talk about the replay.

But if you look back at it....

If there was one that the saints should won, its no doubt 2009.
 

Lemma

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St Kilda are where North was a few years ago under Brad Scott. Mid table finishes, miss out on elite talent, no stars.
We should have done a rebuild in 2016 but instead we topped up with spuds like Polec. Don't make the same mistakes.
 

g_TRAIN

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And despite the underdog tag the saints had in those 2009 and 2010 grand finals, Saints could of easily nabbed a flag or 2.

2009: Yeah... wet conditions played their part. Saints lead for large parts in that grand final. Saints kicked 9.14.68. Had it been a fine and sunny day, Saints would of kicked 13.10.88 or 14.9.93 or 15.8.98 from 23 scoring shots While cats still would of kicked 11.8.74 or 12.8.80. So potentially a 2-4 goal win for the saints.

2010: saints were down by 4 goals at half time and produced a fight back. there were at least a couple of highlights for the saints in that 2010 draw. Not going to bother to talk about the replay.

But if you look back at it....

If there was one that the saints should won, its no doubt 2009.
Yeah, 2009 we should have won.

I personally felt that Geelong's attacking flair was what got them the win.

We did dominate large parts of the game (Winning each of the first 3 quarters) but as was typical of the Ross Lyon team's we were not that good at putting the opposition away and Geelong was too good not to surge at some point.

The 2010 draw was a case of our champions giving it literally everything they had in a herculean attempt to drag us over the line. But Collingwood was the dominant team that year and the replay was a reflection of that.
 

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