Who feels sorry for St Kilda - the only drought remaining!

[Lemma]

2019 was an all-time choke from the Pies imo. Should have smashed a depleted GWS but didn’t turn up until the last quarter. Would have been a ripper grand final too.

As a neutral I'm still annoyed at the Pies for bottling that. Gave us literally the worst GF I've ever seen

 

[Dogga6]

As a neutral I'm still annoyed at the Pies for bottling that. Gave us literally the worst GF I've ever seen

Yep.
Remember being in absolute disbelief at Collingwood losing that knowing we were in for the worst grand final of all time.

The week after proved exactly that.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Anything over 20 years is a drought.. So St Kilda, Carlton, Adelaide, North, Essendon and you can chuck Freo in there who havent won one yet. I think out of the clubs mentioned here Carlton or the Bombers are next.

I think it's anything beyond 18 years, especially in the era of equalisation where the AFL would hope every team wins a flag at least every 18 years.

For example, if it was a 12-team comp as it was for many decades a drought would be anything considered beyond 12 years.

Using that metric, here are droughts that have been broken through each decade.

Carlton (1906) = 9 years (8-team competition)
South Melbourne (1909) = 12 years (10-team competition)

Collingwood (1917) = 7 years (6-team competition)
South Melbourne (1918) = 9 years (8-team competition)

Richmond (1920) = 12 years (9-team competition)
Essendon (1923) = 11 years (9-team competition)
Geelong (1925) = 28 years (12-team competition)
Melbourne (1926) = 26 years (12-team competition)

South Melbourne (1933) = 15 years (12-team competition)
Carlton (1938) = 23 years (12-team competition)
Melbourne (1939) = 13 years (12-team competition)

Essendon (1942) = 18 years (11-team competition)
Fitzroy (1944) = 22 years (12-team competition)

Geelong (1951) = 14 years (12-team competition)
Collingwood (1953) = 17 years (12-team competition)
Footscray (1954) = 29 years (12-team competition)

Hawthorn (1961) = 36 years (12-team competition)
St Kilda (1966) = 69 years (12-team competition)
Richmond (1967) = 24 years (12-team competition)
Carlton (1968) = 21 years (12-team competition)

North Melbourne (1975) = 50 years (12-team competition)

Essendon (1984) = 19 years (12-team competition)

Collingwood (1990) = 32 years (14-team competition)
North Melbourne (1996) = 19 years (16-team competition)

Sydney (2005) = 72 years (16-team competition)
Geelong (2007) = 44 years (16-team competition)
Hawthorn (2008) = 17 years (16-team competition)

Collingwood (2010) = 20 years (16-team competition)
Western Bulldogs (2016) = 62 years (18-team competition)
Richmond (2017) = 37 years (18-team competition)

Melbourne (2021) = 57 years (18-team competition)


Current droughts are St Kilda (56), Fremantle (27), Carlton (27), Adelaide (24), North Melbourne (23), Essendon (22), Brisbane (19) and Port Adelaide (18).

 

[emuboy]

St Kilda's premiership drought dating back to 1966 is now at 55 years and 29 years longer than Carlton and Fremantle, the Blues not winning since 1995 and the Dockers never having won a flag since entry the same year.

This appears to be a record number of years between the team with the longest premiership drought and the team with the second longest. For example by 1938 St Kilda's premiership drought was at 41 years but Carlton had a premiership drought of 23 years dating back to 1915, 18 years less than the Saints, before the Blues beat the Magpies for the premiership that year.

And when St Kilda won in 1966 to break a 69 year flag drought North Melbourne hadn't won a premiership in the 41 years since their entry in 1925, but still the gap between the Kangaroos and Saints was 28 years, one short of the 29 years currently separating the flag droughts of the Saints and the Blues and Dockers.

Outside of the AFL, SANFL team the South Adelaide Panthers' current premiership drought dating back to 1964 is an astonishing 35 years longer than the team with the second longest flag drought, Port Adelaide Magpies which last won the SANFL premiership in 1999.

 

[St Plugger]

Hard to argue it hasn't been painful but no -one can ever take away those great victories the true supporter feels at the game. The WC/Saints game this year at Docklands winning from 5 goals down to storm home , being such an example. Only 14,000 there but the stands by the end of the game were rocking!!
I've personally witnessed 4 Saints grannies without victory in my lifetime like a lot of passionate Sainters my vintage. But no- one can ever take those famous victories away and the joy and euphoria of seeing the team you love have a great win against the odds!! And I suppose if supporters of the successful clubs question how people passionately support a non-successful club, therein lies some of your answer!

This is so true!
I reflected on the wonderful '09 season that the Saints had with that record run of wins and to me, the one thing it lacked was the sweet taste of victory against the odds.
We came to expect that team to win and thats a strange feeling for the supporters of the less successful clubs. We've been so conditioned to savour those fleeting victories against the odds, that when the odds favour our team, it seems to have this strangely surreal feeling.

 

[Jack Green]

This is so true!
I reflected on the wonderful '09 season that the Saints had with that record run of wins and to me, the one thing it lacked was the sweet taste of victory against the odds.
We came to expect that team to win and thats a strange feeling for the supporters of the less successful clubs. We've been so conditioned to savour those fleeting victories against the odds, that when the odds favour our team, it seems to have this strangely surreal feeling.

yep, its a mindset isn't it. My favourite game ever was the 89 Moorabbin game where Plugger kicked his 10th to sneak the win on the siren.
As Denis Cometti said on the siren 'Jubilation at Moorabbin" The ground just erupted.

Miss that suburban ground atmosphere big time

 

[Lemma]

Also love the stat that St.Kilda has had the longest flag drought on two separate occasions

 

[HTT]

2019 was an all-time choke from the Pies imo. Should have smashed a depleted GWS but didn’t turn up until the last quarter. Would have been a ripper grand final too.

Collingwood would have done marginally better than GWS who were cooked. But I think their form was overrated - remember they only got into the top 4 due to West Coast completely bottling a home game against Hawthorn who had little to play for except an extremely outside chance of making 8th. They really struggled to score after the bye (averaged 74.5 ppg) and were relying upon suffocating the opponent to do so. I think the match would've resembled the Collingwood/GWS prelim but Richmond wouldn't have run out of juice in the last quarter they way GWS did in that match.
The build up would have been insane however, it is a shame we missed out on that.

 

[Cool Kangas]

St Kilda are where North was a few years ago under Brad Scott. Mid table finishes, miss out on elite talent, no stars.
We should have done a rebuild in 2016 but instead we topped up with spuds like Polec. Don't make the same mistakes.

I agree with this.

 

[Jack Green]

Also love the stat that St.Kilda has had the longest flag drought on two separate occasions

Don't love it - but can't argue with the facts. Feel the vast majority of passionate club supporters would like to see the Saints salute mind you , just like the Dogs,Tiggies and Dees the past few years. Think at any aspect of life the battler needs their one day in the sun - and few would begrudge them that

 

[westie]

Also love the stat that St.Kilda has had the longest flag drought on two separate occasions

Why?

 

[Jack Green]

I agree with this.

Breaks the heart but personally as it sits, I think it's about right. Certainly see the Saints sneaking back in 8 and snagging a final next year- but my gut feel tell me that is about their ceiling Hoping to be proven wrong however
And yeah , Kanga's under Scott I felt the same.

 

[Cool Kangas]

Breaks the heart but personally as it sits, I think it's about right. Certainly see the Saints sneaking back in 8 and snagging a final next year- but my gut feel tell me that is about their ceiling Hoping to be proven wrong however
And yeah , Kanga's under Scott I felt the same.

Yeah as hard as it’s been seeing north bottom out, it’s the most excited I’ve been about them in a long time.

 

[Jack Green]

Yeah as hard as it’s been seeing north bottom out, it’s the most excited I’ve been about them in a long time.

Yep- still some lean years incoming for the Roo's but the journey has started. Saints journey look like the fuel gauge is hovering at a quarter rather than full.

 

[lewdogs]

Yeah as hard as it’s been seeing north bottom out, it’s the most excited I’ve been about them in a long time.

Yep no doubt we'd rather be where North is right now

 

[Jack Green]

Yep no doubt we'd rather be where North is right now

Certainly not now and certainly not for the next couple of seasons realistically . Not sure the Saints have the scope to compete for flag however . Having said that be nice to potentially go along to a final next year after a decade in the wilderness [ and having them in QLD last year.] The 2011 SSWans final was a long time ago.
Lewdogs - you see our Saints in a more optimistic light than me??

 

[Trav 20]

I feel for Mayo. Probably only a Pies fan could.
Collingwood had to agonise through 9 unsuccessful Grand Finals before breaking through in 1990.
Many just as bizzare as anything County Mayo in Ireland has been through.
1964. 4 point loss. A back pocket player 100m out of position kicked the winning goal. His only goal for the year!
1966. 1 point loss
1970. 44 points up, but still lose
1977. Draw the Grand Final. Lose the replay.
1979. 5 point loss. Wayne Harmes
1980. Make GF, but out classed
1981. Leading Gf at 3/4, but lose again

Plus
1965. Lose Second Semi by 1 point
1969. Minor Premiers, but lose both finals
1972. Double chance, lose both finals.
1973. Lose Prelim after being 45 point up
1975. Lose Elimination Final by 5 points
1978. Lose Prelim 12 points

Between 1958 and 1990,
Collingwood made the finals 21 times for 0 flags.
Twenty one times in a row they failed.
Within the 21 finals failures, 12 times they had the Double Chance.
I do feel for the Saints, but good grief footy can be cruel.

We don't get there often, but have a good record when we do.

Collingwood 15 flags from 42 Grand Finals.

Dees 13 flags from 18.

 

[Cool Kangas]

Yep no doubt we'd rather be where North is right now

Are you being legit?

 

[Jack Green]

Are you being legit?

I took it as sarcasm - right now the operative words

 

[Major Colvin]

Collingwood would have done marginally better than GWS who were cooked. But I think their form was overrated - remember they only got into the top 4 due to West Coast completely bottling a home game against Hawthorn who had little to play for except an extremely outside chance of making 8th. They really struggled to score after the bye (averaged 74.5 ppg) and were relying upon suffocating the opponent to do so. I think the match would've resembled the Collingwood/GWS prelim but Richmond wouldn't have run out of juice in the last quarter they way GWS did in that match.
The build up would have been insane however, it is a shame we missed out on that.

Definitely agree with this. Collingwood would have been smashed in the GF as well - the build up would have been great but it would have been a fizzer.

As it was, I though the build up having GWS in the Granny was great too. And it was good to see them make the GF after a few near misses. The GF was disappointing for neutrals but it was going to be regardless of who Richmond played.

 

[Major Colvin]

I think it's anything beyond 18 years, especially in the era of equalisation where the AFL would hope every team wins a flag at least every 18 years.

For example, if it was a 12-team comp as it was for many decades a drought would be anything considered beyond 12 years.

Using that metric, here are droughts that have been broken through each decade.

Carlton (1906) = 9 years (8-team competition)
South Melbourne (1909) = 12 years (10-team competition)

Collingwood (1917) = 7 years (6-team competition)
South Melbourne (1918) = 9 years (8-team competition)

Richmond (1920) = 12 years (9-team competition)
Essendon (1923) = 11 years (9-team competition)
Geelong (1925) = 28 years (12-team competition)
Melbourne (1926) = 26 years (12-team competition)

South Melbourne (1933) = 15 years (12-team competition)
Carlton (1938) = 23 years (12-team competition)
Melbourne (1939) = 13 years (12-team competition)

Essendon (1942) = 18 years (11-team competition)
Fitzroy (1944) = 22 years (12-team competition)

Geelong (1951) = 14 years (12-team competition)
Collingwood (1953) = 17 years (12-team competition)
Footscray (1954) = 29 years (12-team competition)

Hawthorn (1961) = 36 years (12-team competition)
St Kilda (1966) = 69 years (12-team competition)
Richmond (1967) = 24 years (12-team competition)
Carlton (1968) = 21 years (12-team competition)

North Melbourne (1975) = 50 years (12-team competition)

Essendon (1984) = 19 years (12-team competition)

Collingwood (1990) = 32 years (14-team competition)
North Melbourne (1996) = 19 years (16-team competition)

Sydney (2005) = 72 years (16-team competition)
Geelong (2007) = 44 years (16-team competition)
Hawthorn (2008) = 17 years (16-team competition)

Collingwood (2010) = 20 years (16-team competition)
Western Bulldogs (2016) = 62 years (18-team competition)
Richmond (2017) = 37 years (18-team competition)

Melbourne (2021) = 57 years (18-team competition)


Current droughts are St Kilda (56), Fremantle (27), Carlton (27), Adelaide (24), North Melbourne (23), Essendon (22), Brisbane (19) and Port Adelaide (18).

It's interesting to look at Carlton - 27 years - time flies. When I first started following the Dees their premiership drought was 26 years - that amount of time as youngster seemed like a eons - especially when you would see highlights of 60's games still in black and white.

Also interested to see Essendon's flag drought now surpasses its one from the the 80's during the Sheedy era.

 

[Major Colvin]

Outside of the AFL, SANFL team the South Adelaide Panthers' current premiership drought dating back to 1964 is an astonishing 35 years longer than the team with the second longest flag drought, Port Adelaide Magpies which last won the SANFL premiership in 1999.

Port Adelaide effectively ''exiting'' the SANFL comp and entering the AFL definitely changed the power dynamics of the SANFL, moreso than when the Crows entered the AFL.

Port won 5 out of 7 flags in the 90's prior to their AFL entry. And then they won two more flags at the end of the 90's as the ''SANFL Magpies'' with still a lot of the same legacy players of that period. But the following decade they pretty much disappeared and now of course they remain intermittently competitive as the Power reserves - but not the same as they were.

Interestingly, it took Central District 36 years to win their first flag in 2000 (entered the comp in 1964). They then went on to win 8 of the next 10 premierships. And have since fallen back into obscurity.

 

[RUNVS]

St Kilda should have won in 2010. They were a better team than Collingwood.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I agree with this.

I can't believe people are buying into this as it's not even remotely close.

I said it previously but North's list in 2016 was the oldest and most experienced in the league. They had 13 players over the age of 28, and 7 of them were over 30. Not only that but they were all good or very good players who were relied on and played a lot of football that season:

• Harvey 23 games 36 goals
• Petrie 23 games27 goals
• Waite 14 games
• Firrito 22 games
• Dal Santo 22 games
• Wells 19 games etc

The only guy over 30 who didn't play much football was Farren Ray with 4 games. North in 2016 was in prime position to fall of a cliff by the end of the year.

St Kilda on the other has 8 players over 28 and they are below. The only important player here is Ryder.

• Paul Hunter - Played 7 games back up ruckman not best 22
• Jake Carlise - Played 3 games and delisted
• Dylan Roberton - Retired heart problems didn't play
• Dan Hannebry - Played 2 games
• Shaun McKernan - Played 4 games not best 22 delisted
• James Frawley - Played 3 games not best 22 delisted
• Jarryn Geary - Played 3 games not best 22
• Paddy Ryder - Played 12 games is best 22

Other than those guys there are 6 players who are 27, only two of them are certain best 22 (Crouch and Hill) the rest are 26 or younger.

Guy's like Sharman, Highmore, Higgins, Clark, Gresham, Coffield, Marshall, King, Patton, Brynes, Bytel, Battle, etc are in the right age bracket to improve and some may even go on and become A grade. There are very few if any best 22 players who will regress with age (Ryder aside)

In short St Kilda is not about to fall off a cliff anytime soon based on the demographics of their list. It may not be a brilliant list but 90% of players are still either of an age where they will keep improving or at the least won't get any worse for around 3-4 years.

 

[Jack Green]

I can't believe people are buying into this as it's not even remotely close.

I said it previously but North's list in 2016 was the oldest and most experienced in the league. They had 13 players over the age of 28, and 7 of them were over 30. Not only that but they were all good or very good players who were relied on and played a lot of football that season:

• Harvey 23 games 36 goals
• Petrie 23 games27 goals
• Waite 14 games
• Firrito 22 games
• Dal Santo 22 games
• Wells 19 games etc

The only guy over 30 who didn't play much football was Farren Ray with 4 games. North in 2016 was in prime position to fall of a cliff by the end of the year.

St Kilda on the other has 8 players over 28 and they are below. The only important player here is Ryder.

• Paul Hunter - Played 7 games back up ruckman not best 22
• Jake Carlise - Played 3 games and delisted
• Dylan Roberton - Retired heart problems didn't play
• Dan Hannebry - Played 2 games
• Shaun McKernan - Played 4 games not best 22 delisted
• James Frawley - Played 3 games not best 22 delisted
• Jarryn Geary - Played 3 games not best 22
• Paddy Ryder - Played 12 games is best 22

Other than those guys there are 6 players who are 27, only two of them are certain best 22 (Crouch and Hill) the rest are 26 or younger.

Guy's like Sharman, Highmore, Higgins, Clark, Gresham, Coffield, Marshall, King, Patton, Brynes, Bytel, Battle, etc are in the right age bracket to improve and some may even go on and become A grade. There are very few if any best 22 players who will regress with age (Ryder aside)

In short St Kilda is not about to fall off a cliff anytime soon based on the demographics of their list. It may not be a brilliant list but 90% of players are still either of an age where they will keep improving or at the least won't get any worse for around 3-4 years.

I think Cool Kangas is having a giggle with us . No problem with that

Spot on the where the Saints are at. Will be fine the next couple of years in that 6-12 bracket. TAB has Saints at 10th favourite for flag at $23 for next year - Kangas are 18th line in betting at $101
Pretty reasonable guide of expectation right now as lewdogs alluded to . in defense of Cool Kangas 3 years down the track we may look at things quite differently