Fixture Who finishes last in 2023?

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I feel sick saying this but I agree with this

Don’t think the Bombers should be near this discussion. Mid table with a finals finish if all goes well.

 

[jackster83]

At which clubs?? Our ruck stocks are currently bottom 2 in the league.

The clubs around us number 1 rucks currently are:

Adelaide: Jacobs
GWS: Flynn and Preuss
North Melbourne: Goldstein and Xerri
Essendon: Draper
Eagles: Nic Nat

None of Reeves. Meek. Lynch or Ramsden are starting at any of the above. It’s all potential at the moment. That’s it.

I think Reeves has massive potential but he’s another 2 years off being a consistently good afl ruckman. He’s not nearly fit enough. His tap work is decent but can’t find the ball around the ground and doesn’t take nearly enough marks for his size. His first quarter against Geelong last season is what he needs to produce for 4 quarters every game.

Meek has been playing WAFL and like Reeves has potential to be a good ruckman but we won’t know until the end of 2023 at the earliest how good he can be.

Then there’s Max Lynch who is a number 2 AFL ruck at his best.

Ramsden will play the majority of the season at box hill and only play at senior level should we get injuries. He also looks like more of a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

 

[Blackhawk42]

How would you describe Hawthorn's depth compared to most?

Just looked through the list to identify the 3 - 4 players the Hawks would not want to lose injured.

Sisily
Lewis
Newcomb
Jaith

After that Im struggling to identify a key player ahead of any other. Amon? Wingard, Bruest?

Knowing Sam Mitchell will prioritise getting games into some young guys, we actually have surprisingly decent depth which has been highlighted on our board with 'potential best 22's for round 1' being created.

Players such as Connor Nash, Finn Maginness, Harry Morrison, Jarman Impey, Sam Butler and Sam Frost are missing final selection in some projected sides and all were best 22 when fit for the majority of 2022.

Is our depth currently at an enviable point compared to other sides? No. But it's stronger than many outside the club would realise.

 

[Obeanie1]

Where did I say that we have great depth?

I didn’t.

As I posted already, you’re looking for an argument that isnt there

You are correct.

There isnt an argument. Hawks have poor depth and externally are ranked close favourites to win the spoon. As the poll and many media people have indicated.

What is the point you are trying to make again?

 

[Obeanie1]

Knowing Sam Mitchell will prioritise getting games into some young guys, we actually have surprisingly decent depth which has been highlighted on our board with 'potential best 22's for round 1' being created.

Players such as Connor Nash, Finn Maginness, Harry Morrison, Jarman Impey, Sam Butler and Sam Frost are missing final selection in some projected sides and all were best 22 when fit for the majority of 2022.

Is our depth currently at an enviable point compared to other sides? No. But it's stronger than many outside the club would realise.

I accept Hawks supporters will know there players better than most.

How strong it is compared to other sides is unknown and unproven, especially after losing 5 best 22 players, 4 going to other clubs.

 

[Obeanie1]

it is a forum where debate is welcome, feel free to debate and not end up in a pissing contest

Maybe you should be a Mod.

 

[fishardansin]

Only 12 months ago Collingwood were one of the favourites for the spoon ………

I wouldn't be surprised if they're bottom 4. I think they rolled out an interesting adjustment to zoning football in McRae's first year. However, they still have a very crappy group of young players, other than one superstar and all teams will be either playing a similar run-and-gun game or have defensive plans that will stop it.

Winning a lot of close games coming from 4 or 5 goals down gave them a lot of confidence to never give up when it wouldn't have been pessimistic to do so. However, I have given up on the majority of humans understanding the nature of probability will let people find out this year that luck very often comes in streaks. If they struggle to come up with the 5 or 6 lucky wins that kept them in finals contention the season starts to look very different. Older players look older, they are moved out of key roles to let kids develop and they are typically inconsistent. Pressure mounts to try different things and then the final part of the tailspin is a "readjustment of expectations".

Yes, Geelong's list can fall off a cliff at any point, but I still see 6 or 7 teams with prime demographics that "should" finish higher than Collingwood next year. If Collingwood then drops the close ones to mid-range or lower teams, it will be an ugly year and the pressure will be high because of unrealistic expectations.

 

[Bradkli]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're bottom 4. I think they rolled out an interesting adjustment to zoning football in McRae's first year. However, they still have a very crappy group of young players, other than one superstar and all teams will be either playing a similar run-and-gun game or have defensive plans that will stop it.

Winning a lot of close games coming from 4 or 5 goals down gave them a lot of confidence to never give up when it wouldn't have been pessimistic to do so. However, I have given up on the majority of humans understanding the nature of probability will let people find out this year that luck very often comes in streaks. If they struggle to come up with the 5 or 6 lucky wins that kept them in finals contention the season starts to look very different. Older players look older, they are moved out of key roles to let kids develop and they are typically inconsistent. Pressure mounts to try different things and then the final part of the tailspin is a "readjustment of expectations".

Yes, Geelong's list can fall off a cliff at any point, but I still see 6 or 7 teams with prime demographics that "should" finish higher than Collingwood next year. If Collingwood then drops the close ones to mid-range or lower teams, it will be an ugly year and the pressure will be high because of unrealistic expectations.

They did have a few lucky wins last season but their list is strong and underrated by many here. They have elite players across every line and good depth. They have a brilliant coach as well.


29+:
Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Elliott, Adams (when not injured) Mihocek, Mitchell and crisp are all quality.
Tom Mitchell will be massive for them. Exact player they need. He will feed the ball out to the Daicos’s, crisp, Pendles and Sidebottom.

24-28:
McStay, Moore, Maynard, Degoey, Cameron, Noble and even Johnson who was arguably the best mid-season pick up last season are all best 22 players. Moore, Maynard and Degoey are A graders.

24 and under:
Daicos’s elite with lipinski, Ginnivan and Quaynor quality.
The likes of Macrae, Bianco, McCreery, Ruscoe, Carmichael and McInnes all have played senior football and look like they will make it.

The Magpies should absolutely be playing finals in 2023 and be looking at finishing top 4 again.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

They did have a few lucky wins last season but their list is strong and underrated by many here. They have elite players across every line and good depth. They have a brilliant coach as well.


29+:
Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Elliott, Adams (when not injured) Mihocek, Mitchell and crisp are all quality.
Tom Mitchell will be massive for them. Exact player they need. He will feed the ball out to the Daicos’s, crisp, Pendles and Sidebottom.

24-28:
McStay, Moore, Maynard, Degoey, Cameron, Noble and even Johnson who was arguably the best mid-season pick up last season are all best 22 players. Moore, Maynard and Degoey are A graders.

24 and under:
Daicos’s elite with lipinski, Ginnivan and Quaynor quality.
The likes of Macrae, Bianco, McCreery, Ruscoe, Carmichael and McInnes all have played senior football and look like they will make it.

The Magpies should absolutely be playing finals in 2023 and be looking at finishing top 4 again.

While i think the pies have a good list and will play finals

A harder draw and if a few of those close ones go the other way, they probably finish 5-8th

 

[Bradkli]

While i think the pies have a good list and will play finals

A harder draw and if a few of those close ones go the other way, they probably finish 5-8th

Agreed..don’t think they are same tier as cats, tigers and lions. I have them with the blues, demons and swans. They should definitely make the 8.

Their home and away season last year was similar to ours in 2018. They just happened to make a prelim.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Agreed..don’t think they are same tier as cats, tigers and lions. I have them with the blues, demons and swans. They should definitely make the 8.

Their home and away season last year was similar to ours in 2018. They just happened to make a prelim.

I think their scoring power gets found out in that top tier

Im suss on the McStay acquisition

 

[Giant Pete]

Weird GWS is on this poll. They are very young and still got way too much talent to finish last imo.

Shhh.

 

[The acurate one]

I doubt it will be North, I did tip us in 2022 for the spoon.
I can understand why people would suggest us as the favorites, but I'd be disappointed.

3 spoons in a row may be too much to handle.

2020- 2nd last
2021- last
2022- last
2023- last

suppose the PPs would be interesting, especially now Brad won't be around to hand them out in 23. Surely we'd be writing our own ticket.

Rather it doesn't happen of course.

 

[Obeanie1]

Only 12 months ago Collingwood were one of the favourites for the spoon ………

The difference here is the Pies retained a decent group of quality senior players and role players to lead the way.

Pendlebury, Adams, Sidebottom, Moore, De Goey, Howe, Cox, Roughead, Maynard, Crisp, Mioheck, Elliot.

12 senior players leading the way and supporting the developing players and new kids.

Hawks have taken a more aggressive approach.

Considering the Pies seem to often be good enough to make a GF but not win one only time will tell who has the better approach.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawks externally are ranked close favourites to win the spoon.

If the Hawks are close, what are the Eagles?

Good money if you want to get on the Hawks, but then again we were hotter favorites last year and look at how that turned out.

 

[Giant Pete]

The difference here is the Pies retained a decent group of quality senior players and role players to lead the way.

Pendlebury, Adams, Sidebottom, Moore, De Goey, Howe, Cox, Roughead, Maynard, Crisp, Mioheck, Elliot.

12 senior players leading the way and supporting the developing players and new kids.

Hawks have taken a more aggressive approach.

Considering the Pies seem to often be good enough to make a GF but not win one only time will tell who has the better approach.

Yeah… looks like you’re window is closing.

 

[Giant Pete]

Looking at the Hawks list to me looks like they are destined to be low to mid for a number of years. Other clubs with way more young and mid-aged talent.
St Kilda areas.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Looking at the Hawks list to me looks like they are destined to be low to mid for a number of years. Other clubs with way more young and mid-aged talent.
St Kilda areas.

Cute

Spoken like you havent looked at the list at all and to compare to St Kilda is laughable

Excessive high draft picks arn't everything, as evidenced by GWS

Have hit on lower picks with Lewis, CJ, Newcombe etc

Rebuild well on track

 

[Giant Pete]

Cute

Spoken like you havent looked at the list at all and to compare to St Kilda is laughable

Excessive high draft picks arn't everything, as evidenced by GWS

Have hit on lower picks with Lewis, CJ, Newcombe etc

Rebuild well on track

Disagree. Projecting for mid-range at best.

 

[Obeanie1]

Yeah… looks like you’re window is closing.

For sure.

Eagles are on the rebuild.

No-one is tipping the Eagles to make finals.

If they have the same fitness levels and injuries to last season they will finish last.

Question is will they get fit and stay fit.

They had 19 players who either didn't play or never got fit enough to compete last season.

My gut says that won't happen to the same level and they will finish around 12th to 16th.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Disagree. Projecting for mid-range at best.

Disagree, laughable opinion

With a list still developing, a final opinion on said list is impossible

 

[Obeanie1]

If the Hawks are close, what are the Eagles?

Good money if you want to get on the Hawks, but then again we were hotter favorites last year and look at how that turned out.



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More than happy to wager the Eagles will finish higher than the Hawks.

Significantly more quality senior players still on the list and some nice kids coming through.

How many games are Hawthorn giving up home ground advantage for playing in Tassie?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

More than happy to wager the Eagles will finish higher than the Hawks.

Significantly more quality senior players still on the list and some nice kids coming through.

How many games are Hawthorn giving up home ground advantage for playing in Tassie?

Tassie is an out and out home venue for Hawthorn against all teams while the MCG is only one against 10 sides

While i believe that the Eagles will finish higher, the tassie comment is a strange one

 

[Giant Pete]

Disagree, laughable opinion

With a list still developing, a final opinion on said list is impossible

Disagree. More laughable opinion… hilarious in fact. “A final opinion”… we are all having an opinion on everyone’s lists… which change every year… silly comment.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Disagree. More laughable opinion… hilarious in fact. “A final opinion”… we are all having an opinion on everyone’s lists… which change every year… silly comment.

You have made a final call on an unfinished list

Laughable