Fixture Who finishes last in 2023?

[Blackhawk42]

Don't forget Juventud Guerrera

Who the hell is Juvi?

 

[EB&W Pieman]

Hawks seem determined to have first pick from a hot list of kids.

 

[Bradkli]

Hawks seem determined to have first pick from a hot list of kids.

We don’t tank..it’s not the hawthorn way..just have to look at the last few years and how many “meaningless” games we have won. If we finish bottom it won’t be from tanking, it will be from us simply having a poor season.

 

[peetoo]

We don’t tank..it’s not the hawthorn way..just have to look at the last few years and how many “meaningless” games we have won. If we finish bottom it won’t be from tanking, it will be from us simply having a poor season.

Have always been obliged by one or more teams going worse, notably the mighty brisbane lions in 1998

 

[EB&W Pieman]

We don’t tank..it’s not the hawthorn way..just have to look at the last few years and how many “meaningless” games we have won. If we finish bottom it won’t be from tanking, it will be from us simply having a poor season.

Hmmm. You may well be right, but ….
1. Every list manager has his price. The things a club can do with the number 1 pick these days make it much more useful than ever before.
2. I reckon your recent reluctance to finish last was personal - Clarko didn’t want his record blemished.
3. Your trading strategy is more in line with my view than yours.
4. Your club mission statement is all about winning premierships. Not winning wooden spoons doesn’t rate a mention. And while you collected your recent swag of flags without finishing last, the recruiting of Buddy and Roughy will always be recognised as one of the major building blocks. Perhaps better than any wooden spoon collect in history.
5. As a player Sam was ruthless and not bound by convention or rules. I reckon he’ll take a similar approach as a coach.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

We don’t tank..it’s not the hawthorn way..just have to look at the last few years and how many “meaningless” games we have won. If we finish bottom it won’t be from tanking, it will be from us simply having a poor season.

I dont believe any team tanks to start with but when the season is 3/4 way done and nothing to play for then teams either put players for early surgery's and give younger players more games

Hawks decided to move Mitchell , JOM , Gunston from a team thats rebuilding but all 3 players would still be best 23 then next 3 years is in a way tanking by default as they wont be placing much emphasis to ladder position the next 2-3 years

 

[Blackhawk42]

I dont believe any team tanks to start with but when the season is 3/4 way done and nothing to play for then teams either put players for early surgery's and give younger players more games

Hawks decided to move Mitchell , JOM , Gunston from a team thats rebuilding but all 3 players would still be best 23 then next 3 years is in a way tanking by default as they wont be placing much emphasis to ladder position the next 2-3 years

We offered Gunston a new contract. He opted to exercise his free agency rights.
Ben McEvoy retired.

Both would still be playing next season if it was up to Sam Mitchell.

O'Meara nearly remained a Hawk, but trading him helped us to acquire Lloyd Meek (McEvoy replacement) and draft Josh Weddle.

It may come with teething issues, but unless you're a contender heading into 2023 then I'd argue you'd prefer the combination of Meek and Weddle in your side than O'Meara on his own.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We offered Gunston a new contract. He opted to exercise his free agency rights.
Ben McEvoy retired.

Both would still be playing next season if it was up to Sam Mitchell.

O'Meara nearly remained a Hawk, but trading him helped us to acquire Lloyd Meek (McEvoy replacement) and draft Josh Weddle.

It may come with teething issues, but unless you're a contender heading into 2023 then I'd argue you'd prefer the combination of Meek and Weddle in your side than O'Meara on his own.

I think Sam may have made the decision for BigBoy, when we had Reeves/Lynch and Meek about to join us.

Gunston we definitely wanted to keep though.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hmmm. You may well be right, but ….
1. Every list manager has his price. The things a club can do with the number 1 pick these days make it much more useful than ever before.
2. I reckon your recent reluctance to finish last was personal - Clarko didn’t want his record blemished.
3. Your trading strategy is more in line with my view than yours.
4. Your club mission statement is all about winning premierships. Not winning wooden spoons doesn’t rate a mention. And while you collected your recent swag of flags without finishing last, the recruiting of Buddy and Roughy will always be recognised as one of the major building blocks. Perhaps better than any wooden spoon collect in history.
5. As a player Sam was ruthless and not bound by convention or rules. I reckon he’ll take a similar approach as a coach.

Agree with all this, but also think Sam is genuine in his belief in this group and the growth and development of the talent he can tap into.

Not forgetting that he spotted Newcombe almost instantly at Box Hill preseason training(there’s a YouTube video of Sam addressing the Box Hill players, highlighting to them that Newcombe is the youngest in the room, but the toughest) and turned him into an AFL standard mid within 6 months of being drafted from “nowhere”.

I think Sam’s identified similarly within others on the list, like Lewis for example who came alive under Sam, and he wants to give them opportunity to take control.

 

[peetoo]

I dont believe any team tanks to start with but when the season is 3/4 way done and nothing to play for then teams either put players for early surgery's and give younger players more games

Hawks decided to move Mitchell , JOM , Gunston from a team thats rebuilding but all 3 players would still be best 23 then next 3 years is in a way tanking by default as they wont be placing much emphasis to ladder position the next 2-3 years

Predictions in bigfooty would be c 12th even if they stayed

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I dont believe any team tanks to start with but when the season is 3/4 way done and nothing to play for then teams either put players for early surgery's and give younger players more games

Agree with this part and it is exactly what we mean when we say Hawthorn doesn't typically tank (even in the common way you have described).

In 2021 for example, after 19 rounds, Hawthorn were equal bottom (17th), only % clear of North with a standout number 1 pick on the table (JHF) and a perfectly suited number 2 (Callaghan).

Despite this, Hawthorn went hell for leather til the end, winning 3 and drawing 1 of their last 4 games, including against top 4 teams where an 'honourable loss' would have been acceptable.

We rose to 14th, significantly compromising our pick.

The year before, with nothing to play for, we won our last game of the season to put us higher than Sydney. This not only cost us our first choice of draftee, but our actual pick was for a Sydney academy player, meaning that 1 extra win gave Sydney both our first and our second choice.

The year before that, after 15 rounds we were bottom 4. We could have sent ppl off and got a nice high draft pick. Instead, we rallied hard late in the year and won 6 of our last 9 games, including our last 3 when finals were pretty much gone. We ended up 9th.

2 years prior, we were 17th after the half way mark of the year. Again we rallied late and finished 12th.

I could keep going but you definately get the idea. Could be different under Mitchell but that's what was meant when it was said Hawthorn don't tank. We have very actively anti-tanked by costing ourselves draft picks in a concerted effort to pick our best side and win every game of the year, including/especially late in the year with little to play for.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Agree with this part and it is exactly what we mean when we say Hawthorn doesn't typically tank (even in the common way you have described).

In 2021 for example, after 19 rounds, Hawthorn were equal bottom (17th), only % clear of North with a standout number 1 pick on the table (JHF) and a perfectly suited number 2 (Callaghan).

Despite this, Hawthorn went hell for leather til the end, winning 3 and drawing 1 of their last 4 games, including against top 4 teams where an 'honourable loss' would have been acceptable.

We rose to 14th, significantly compromising our pick.

The year before, with nothing to play for, we won our last game of the season to put us higher than Sydney. This not only cost us our first choice of draftee, but our actual pick was for a Sydney academy player, meaning that 1 extra win gave Sydney both our first and our second choice.

The year before that, after 15 rounds we were bottom 4. We could have sent ppl off and got a nice high draft pick. Instead, we rallied hard late in the year and won 6 of our last 9 games, including our last 3 when finals were pretty much gone. We ended up 9th.

2 years prior, we were 17th after the half way mark of the year. Again we rallied late and finished 12th.

I could keep going but you definately get the idea. Could be different under Mitchell but that's what was meant when it was said Hawthorn don't tank. We have very actively anti-tanked by costing ourselves draft picks in a concerted effort to pick our best side and win every game of the year, including/especially late in the year with little to play for.

Agree with what you posted about what the Hawks did in 2021 and Clarkson was never a fan of rebuilding / tanking and constantly topped up with players to keep them competitive but since mitchell has taken over it appears that he is not concerned about ladder finishes and with the backing of the board has taken steps to gut the list and trade out players to get picks.

Personally i dont believe Mitchell cares where the hawks finish in 2023 & 2024 and its all about 2025 onwards

 

[Coach_Required]

I reckon North will still finish last but will be a lot more competitive than the previous 2 seasons. Hawthorn will finish 17th and win some games a lot here think they won't.

It's a long season and both teams are looking at giving game time to younger players and that will impact them towards seasons end.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Bulldogs for the wooden spoon.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bulldogs for the wooden spoon.

Huge call... but I seriously doubt it with their list.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Bulldogs for the wooden spoon.

You wish

 

[Gavin Excell]

Bulldogs for the wooden spoon.

Saints v Dogs

Will always back against Saints

The comps premier team for excuses

 

[seasonedsainter]

Huge call... but I seriously doubt it with their list.

Their depth is a big worry, seems like the Dogs are particularly shallow in several areas and only 1 or 2 unlucky breaks away from being majorly exposed.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Saints v Dogs

Will always back against Saints

The comps premier team for excuses

Do that again this year and have fun staying poor then.

 

[Phipppppa]

Hawks or gws

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Do that again this year and have fun staying poor then.

When is King back?

Saints forwards can't take a trick at the moment.

 

[seasonedsainter]

When is King back?

Saints forwards can't take a trick at the moment.

Not till round 7-ish apparently. Really unlucky break for Billings. Gonna be an interesting looking Saints forward line that's for sure

 

[seasonedsainter]

Bulldogs for the wooden spoon.

excuse me mods is it too late to change this to St. Kilda

 

[Obeanie1]

We don’t tank..it’s not the hawthorn way..just have to look at the last few years and how many “meaningless” games we have won. If we finish bottom it won’t be from tanking, it will be from us simply having a poor season.

And gutting the list of experience............aka tanking.

When injuries hit 2 or 3 key players just watch the Hawks fall away. Thats what happens when you move on too many experienced players.

 

[freddy mercury]

North or hawthorn.