Prediction Who Goes?

[XhazzafootyX]

When do the end of season reviews/ interviews start? Today?

 

[cooperrules]

When do the end of season reviews/ interviews start? Today?

Yes

 

[Saintbloke]

I think some Sainters over-rate our list. We haven't got a lot of quality, a good sprinkling of players who can get the ball, do occasional flash things, but not enough of it and go missing for chunks of a game. I look though the list and can only see a few players that I would seriously say are up to top standard. I hope King and Bytel come good, but they have done nothing yet. I hope there are some very tough decisions made with the list before next season.

 

[gringo2011]

I take it you dont watch the footy , Ben has already shown he has amazing talent , he has kicked 3 goals twice and 4 goals once in his first season , what more do you need to see

He'd be a back man though. He looks talented for sure. Just don't think he's a priority either seeing we have a poor midfield. What if he's injured then. I would rather draft or trade mids with 2 first rounders.

 

[gringo2011]

15th and 14th on the ladder and no finals in 8yrs..

Yep and no where near it still. How long do we have to wait? We need a plan for how to get out of it. At the moment we want things we don't need and have traded out of this draft so have to trade out assets to replace them. We make dumb decisions.

 

[gringo2011]

I think some Sainters over-rate our list. We haven't got a lot of quality, a good sprinkling of players who can get the ball, do occasional flash things, but not enough of it and go missing for chunks of a game. I look though the list and can only see a few players that I would seriously say are up to top standard. I hope King and Bytel come good, but they have done nothing yet. I hope there are some very tough decisions made with the list before next season.

I think a lot have started to come to terms with the list now. We have promising kids and average mid career to older players. Most people want to trade out anything that looks good out of the list and start again it seems. I'm not as keen to step backwards for another rebuild. I think we are going to have to keep supporters engaged while doing an on the fly rebuild, we can't afford any mistakes though. Who ever in charge is almost make or break for us. We will end up in Tassie if we don't get it right.

 

[Mikka84]

Yep and no where near it still. How long do we have to wait? We need a plan for how to get out of it. At the moment we want things we don't need and have traded out of this draft so have to trade out assets to replace them. We make dumb decisions.

I have no answers.. We wait and we wait some more.. And hope to god our next 'rebuild' is better than the last.

 

[gringo2011]

I have no answers.. We wait and we wait some more.. And hope to god our next 'rebuild' is better than the last.

We have made a lot of list changes and it's almost looking like desperate grabbing at anything that looks shiny now. I just hope they can keep their heads together. Dumb decisions are made under pressure. We have to keep competitive while playing the youth into form. I hope Libba is a gun recruiter, we need to get it right.

Next year we will probably have Geary, Ross....(or maybe not) and Webster still on our list from the 2013 list. So in 6 years we will have pretty much completely turned over the playing list. Geary is probably in his last year or two as well. That's some major instability.

 

[Sully111]

I think a lot have started to come to terms with the list now. We have promising kids and average mid career to older players. Most people want to trade out anything that looks good out of the list and start again it seems. I'm not as keen to step backwards for another rebuild. I think we are going to have to keep supporters engaged while doing an on the fly rebuild, we can't afford any mistakes though. Who ever in charge is almost make or break for us. We will end up in Tassie if we don't get it right.

I think if you look at it from a players positions point of view, we can actually get going pretty quickly, if as you say we're smart.

Our backs look solid once we get a few back. If King takes off next year and we can develop guys like Long, Parker and Hind into decent forwards, we'll be ok there.

If Hanners can stay fit, we move Clark to the midfield (i see him as a Pendlebury type... seems to have more time than other players)... Steele has turned into a great tagger... we have Gretsch and Billings... we bring in Hill... We only need another one or two more good onballers and we're away.

The thing for me (as i keep banging on about) is there needs to be a focus on our skills. If we can stop butchering the f*k*n ball and give our forwards some decent delivery, it'll make all the difference.

We also need to set standards as far as players going missing within games. My feeling is that Richo was too soft.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

If contracts weren't an issue I would make these changes

Retire/delist:

Rowe
Armitage
Kent
Longer
Pierce
Roberton (if forced)
McCartin
Young
Rice

Trade as long as we get a 3rd round pick or better in return (keep if no takers):

Dunstan
Lonie
Phillips
Newnes
White
McKenzie

On the trade table only if needed to snare a big fish:

Steven
Savage
Carlisle
Sinclair
Acres
Webster
Paton
Long

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

We have made a lot of list changes and it's almost looking like desperate grabbing at anything that looks shiny now. I just hope they can keep their heads together. Dumb decisions are made under pressure. We have to keep competitive while playing the youth into form. I hope Libba is a gun recruiter, we need to get it right.

Next year we will probably have Geary, Ross....(or maybe not) and Webster still on our list from the 2013 list. So in 6 years we will have pretty much completely turned over the playing list. Geary is probably in his last year or two as well. That's some major instability.

Major instability or simply recognising how bad a shape the list was in back in 2013?

 

[Lenny2020]

We culled 7-8 players last year. We’ll do the same this year if not slightly more. It’s public Steven wanted out as well.. not much to hide behind. Sometimes a trade can’t be done, but sometimes it’s better to cut and run.

We've got 48 on the list and we only need 44 I think, so we could delist four players without replacing them.

So if we did delist 12 or something crazy like that, we'd need to find eight players.

More likely we delist 10 and trade one or two for other players, so that's more manageable, especially with free agency.

I wouldn't mind seeing us draft two or three new rookies either, as we seem to do quite well with those (Sinclair, Marshall, Wilkie).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Our list is more than full , so for starters if we want to keep players we drafted as top up rookies, we need to lose some.
Armitage has finished.
McCartin surely we pay out if he's still contracted.
That would allow us to keep Mayo and Marsh if we wanted to. Assuming Rowe leaves we are now balanced.
---------------
We will have our first round pick ( unless we trade it for multiple picks or players).
Academy player Nuyon is worth taking, but will use up at least a couple of third round picks.
I guess we might have one 3rd rounder latish pick worth using.
Then 4th round and later.

We will need spots to promote Wilkie, and

Backline:
Webster: 26YO: Worthy of a spot in the backline, we could trade him sure, but after a season of injury we'd be taking unders. Keep.
Carlisle: 28YO: How much longer will he play? Worth it if the right trade comes in, cover his loss with Brown , Joyce, Clavarino, Marsh.
Geary : 31YO Won't be traded or de-listed.
Savage : 28YO. Off the back of a great season , with younger players able to fill his role , he's never going to be worth more. Take the right trade.
Battle : 21YO. On paper we could do without him, trade would need to be huge though.
Wilkie : 23YO : Keep for sure.
------------------
Brown : 30YO Still seems very fit and capable. Haters gonna hate, but i'd keep him for another season, even if he plays mostly VFL.
Coffield : 19YO, showed enough this season that he will be a decent player.
Clark : I just can't see him staying in the backline. Midfield sooner rather than later.
** Roberton : will retire i assume, ( would be great if he didn't )
Austin 24YO : Not sure about him, he couldn't get on the park, and we seem to have plenty like him. - Rookie List or Trade.
White 22YO : Some here really rate him but he can't get a game. He seems to be behind all of McKenzie, Coffield ,Paton, Marsh, Trade or Delist i guess.
Paton : 20YO : It was his endurance that stopped him playing mid as a junior. Anyway he seems a good player.
McKenzie: 22YO : He plays some good ones, but got less of the ball this season than he did last year. Either him or White will surely go. Take any trade.
Rice : 22YO. Should have chosen the Blues. Maybe he's a forward but either way can't see him lasting.
Clavarino : Too early to de-list a 20YO Key position player.
Marsh 24YO: I'd like to give him a pre-season and another season at least or trade him if someone wants him.
Joyce 22YO : Certainly has some ability , worth promoting IMO.
-----------

Mids:
Steven 29YO : Will stay or go depending on him. ( not on what people here reckon). If we get a pick or player in trade it will balance out the list.
Gresham 22YO : we are keeping him, not sure if his current roll is his best position.
Ross 26YO : Possible trade bait, he's not a strong enough inside mid to be what we really need.
Hannebery 28YO : Hopefully his body is right now.
Billings : 24YO : Would consider trading for Coniglio, but i wouldn't like it.
Dunstan : 24YO : We really don't have many players who can go inside like him and he did improve ( 50 more CP's 2019 than 2018.)
Acres : 24YO : Not good enough to be indispensable. Put a price on his head and if someone wants to pay it, trade him (2nd round?). Otherwise keep.
Steele: 24YO : we need his hard edge in our midfield.
Newnes : Only 26 he seems to be over the hill. Not sure anyone will be chasing him as free agent, if they do we get a pick.
-----------------------
Bytel : If he's the kind of player i hope, he can free up Gresham or Ross a bit let them play rolls more suited to them.
Phillips 21YO : If someone want to trade for him , take it, but he's a decent GOP for backup and will still improve.
Sinclair 24YO : Another GOP, best mates with Billings so be careful not to upset the apple cart. Best 22?
Hind 25YO : On the wing, i don't mind if he's officially a fwd, defender or mid. He's fast. Keep.
Langlands 20YO : Still early days, worth persevering .

Fwds:
King : No ..hands off.
Lonie : 23YO Love or hate him, I'd want a pretty decent trade for him.
Long : 22YO Patchy. I'd take a trade if it was offered, but happy to keep him and play him too.
Kent : 25YO Would be kind of ludicrous if we traded him.
Bruce: 27YO. I rate him highly. Would be very risky right now to lose him i think. Mayo not really ready to play.
Membrey: 25YO. As for Bruce we simply don't have the forward depth without him.
--------------------------------------
Parker : 23YO. Seems a good pickup, will be great to see him after another pre-season.
Young : 23YO 2 years for new recruits, watch this space next year.
Mayo : 19YO need to see more of him.

Rucks :
Marshall : Hands off
------------------------------
One of Longer/Pierce , if either of them play we need a backup.
Alabaxis. Probably won't make it.

1: The way i see it the first round pick will be part of a trade or used in the draft.

2: we will get "Biggy " May take more than one of our draft picks to get the points.

Armitage/McCartin will allow us to upgrade two Rookies. ( Wilkie /Joyce )?

3:/4: late draft picks.

So that means that Roberton, White, Rice, and one of Longer/Pierce would be enough to de-list.

As i indicated , there are players we could use in trade, but most are unlikely to bring in a quality player.
If we trade player X for a draft pick, we don't need to delist any others to use that pick.

Look at our depth for defenders compared to other positions. I'd say Austin would be the next one after White and Rice. Or we may keep Rice as forward depth and de-list McKenzie.

Simply no point de-listing more than retiring players plus one or 2.

 

[CaptainRisky]

He'd be a back man though. He looks talented for sure. Just don't think he's a priority either seeing we have a poor midfield. What if he's injured then. I would rather draft or trade mids with 2 first rounders.

What do you mean if hes injured ? Any played can get injured i would have thought

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What do you mean if hes injured ? Any played can get injured i would have thought

If you give up 2 first round picks and you get a Hamilesque injury, you've lost 2.
Think if we'd paid double picks for Paddy.

 

[CaptainRisky]

If you give up 2 first round picks and you get a Hamilesque injury, you've lost 2.
Think if we'd paid double picks for Paddy.

But we can think like that or we would never do anything , things happen but you cant sit back and say what if he hurts himself

 

[gringo2011]

Major instability or simply recognising how bad a shape the list was in back in 2013?

What ever you call it, it doesn't reflect well.

 

[gringo2011]

What do you mean if hes injured ? Any played can get injured i would have thought

It's going to cost a lot to get him in, I'd rather two mids with two high draft picks myself.

 

[CaptainRisky]

If contracts weren't an issue I would make these changes

Retire/delist:

Rowe
Armitage
Kent
Longer
Pierce
Roberton (if forced)
McCartin
Young
Rice

Trade as long as we get a 3rd round pick or better in return (keep if no takers):

Dunstan
Lonie
Phillips
Newnes
White
McKenzie

On the trade table only if needed to snare a big fish:

Steven
Savage
Carlisle
Sinclair
Acres
Webster
Paton
Long

We are not go to get a very big fish using them as bait , going to need a bit more mayo on it if we want a tuna instead of a puffa fish

 

[CaptainRisky]

It's going to cost a lot to get him in, I'd rather two mids with two high draft picks myself.

Thats fair enough but we cant be using Two first rounders , what if he gets hurt

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's going to cost a lot to get him in, I'd rather two mids with two high draft picks myself.

But we can think like that or we would never do anything , things happen but you cant sit back and say what if he hurts himself

Exactly drafting 2 gun players with 2 draft picks is not doing nothing. An extra key tall isn't going to help us short term.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Exactly drafting 2 gun players with 2 draft picks is not doing nothing. An extra key tall isn't going to help us short term.

The thing is Ben has already shown he is a real talent , you cant be sure of getting two guns in the draft , not with the picks we would be using IMO

 

[MrFoster]

I think if you look at it from a players positions point of view, we can actually get going pretty quickly, if as you say we're smart.

Our backs look solid once we get a few back. If King takes off next year and we can develop guys like Long, Parker and Hind into decent forwards, we'll be ok there.

If Hanners can stay fit, we move Clark to the midfield (i see him as a Pendlebury type... seems to have more time than other players)... Steele has turned into a great tagger... we have Gretsch and Billings... we bring in Hill... We only need another one or two more good onballers and we're away.

The thing for me (as i keep banging on about) is there needs to be a focus on our skills. If we can stop butchering the f*k*n ball and give our forwards some decent delivery, it'll make all the difference.

We also need to set standards as far as players going missing within games. My feeling is that Richo was too soft.

This to me is the missed opportunity for the last 6 years. We did not improve the general skill level of the team by one iota. Because the taxing game style/focus on effort, even young players with good skills in the TAC cup start to constantly make skill errors in our side such is our manic and headless style.. As a result, the whole team is error prone and can't hit targets to save themselves. It will take time to drill the basic skills to a high standard again.. e.g. be able to hit a 30 metre target accurately with bit of pressure; improve composure/decision making; draw the opponent and handball to release a teammate on the move rather than to a sitting duck about to be tackled.

Even during the Lyon years, I don't think the general skills of the team was that good bar the superstars: Dal; Roo; Montagna; Hays; Milne; Goddard; Fisher.
Let's hope whoever the new coach is.. he puts skills as the number one priority..

In a way, that's why I think Ratten may not be the best person to take us forward.. will he be tough enough on the players?.. the whole transition/forward line play is his baby and is a complete mess, I did not see a huge change in the last 6 games. How come other sides even lower teams like Carlton can always have a open forward line when the ball comes in, or have players marking on the lead, where we still continuously bombing it long aimlessly to a big pack of players like it's going to go out of fashion.. had we isolated Bruce and maybe a crumber in a 2 vs 2 match up, we would score much more efficiently.. instead it's still the kick and hope stuff.. that to me is down to the fact that Ratten has not found a solution to our problem yet.

 

[TheEnsign]

Without going through all the permutations and whatnot, other than Stuv the three contracted players that I think we could should look to trade that have some kind of currency are: Ross, Acres and Sinclair.

Seb first - yes he's vice captain and it's unlikely, but my knock on him is he's not hard enough to play inside and not skilled enough to play outside. He is an accumulator but despite some better kicking the last ~6 - 8 weeks he's still one of the chief culprits of the blind moon ball inside 50 IMO. He would have good currency given he's only a couple of years off an AA40 and B&F year. Not sure who he's be in the mix for.

Acres - assuming we split our first round pick, get him involved in the Hill trade but I'd want something fairly substantial back as well; we should ask for Freo's next years' second and speculate on them not getting it together. Love me some Acres but as with Sinclair we can't just keep him getting ~16 disposals a game unless he is consistently impacting the scoreboard when resting forward.

Sinclair - Is going to be more of a steak knives type or just take a third rounder for him. One of the more skilled players we have but just doesn't seem to find the ball enough and basically we need to put some minutes into other prospects to see if we can unearth a really good mid.

Goal kicking mids (when resting forward or just generally) should be top of our list and all three of the above are holding us back in that category.

 

[Cornish]

I am for trading Sincs, Acres, Steven, Newnes

I dont think we have much currency anyway, so i am not expecting too much to come out of any of it..