Consumer Electronics Who got your phone info?

Kinbru

Draftee
Oct 27, 2019
16
24
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Gold Coast
This is nothing new, I´m sure.

I just got a new iPhone because my old phone died all the time. When I got my new iPhone I got the question to register my Face ID, I didn´t do it because I´m old fashioned, kinda lazy and a little paranoid at nature, but at Uni today I saw how easily people opened their phone with their facial ID instead of using the code to open their phones (it’s the new Fingerprint ID on iPhone), so I caved in. And it´s so easy! It’s a bless you, thank the heavens, how much less frustrated I get when the snow or rain is falling on my screen and I can´t open the damn phone to show my bus ticket, answer a text message and so on.

BUT, all the steps I had to go through to get it, the phone had to get my facial structure left and right, up and down and all that, and in TWO steps. It was an effing biometric scanner.

And that got me thinking, WHO gets this info??!

It also got me thinking about the Fingerprint ID I had on my old Phone.

Is this a way to control us? Is this a way to get our fingerprints and our facial structures to easier identify us? Do they use it if we do something illegal? If they suspect us for something? If they need a way to control us?

Like in the earlier days, they only got your fingerprints if you did a crime. They only got your facial structure (I think) if you had a reason to be in a criminal database and they got a picture to compare it to and so on.

Today, it´s all there. In a database somewhere. Your iPhone fingerprint ID, you Face ID. Just laying there. Or is someone gathering it?
I don´t like this feeling, do we got any rights left?

To take everything to an extreme, is this another part of a conspiracy to control us as human beings?

Kinda just airing ("lufting" in Norwegian, sorry about my bad English), my thoughts over here, but a big part of me is actually really concerned.


I´m actually the girl who covers her webcam and phone cams with a sticker, just to be sure because it´s always given me the creeps how much power electronics/the "right" people have over you.


Thoughts please? And please be kind.
 
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Thegibbsgamble

I beg to meg
Oct 28, 2017
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Yep, every dick pic someone sends, is seen by some creepy spook or copper.

It would be so much better psychologicaly, if they announced all staffers cataloging stiffies, were gay or female.
 

Kinbru

Draftee
Oct 27, 2019
16
24
Norway
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Yep, every dick pic someone sends, is seen by some creepy spook or copper.

It would be so much better psychologicaly, if they announced all staffers cataloging stiffies, were gay or female.
Well, nude pics doesn't bother me because we're all born nude. Everyone got a dick or a vagina, or both. I'm not discriminating. If your a grown man or woman, it´s your own choice to share those. I should be laughing at your last sentence, but I'm not. I´m actually glad they control those kind of photos (if they do), they catch real criminals that way.

You still haven't answered my question.
 
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deanc

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Jun 13, 2014
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This is nothing new, I´m sure.

I just got a new iPhone because my old phone died all the time. When I got my new iPhone I got the question to register my Face ID, I didn´t do it because I´m old fashioned, kinda lazy and a little paranoid at nature, but at Uni today I saw how easily people opened their phone with their facial ID instead of using the code to open their phones (it’s the new Fingerprint ID on iPhone), so I caved in. And it´s so easy! It’s a bless you, thank the heavens, how much less frustrated I get when the snow or rain is falling on my screen and I can´t open the damn phone to show my bus ticket, answear a text message and so on.

BUT, all the steps I had to go through to get it, the phone had to get my facial structure left and right, up and down and all that, and in TWO steps. It was an effing biometric scanner.

And that got me thinking, who the f*ck gets this info??!

It also got me thinking about the Fingerprint ID I had on my old Phone.

Is this a way to control us? Is this a way to get our fingerprints and our facial structures to easier identify us? Do they use it IF we do something illegal? If they suspect us for something? If they need a way to control us?

Like in the earlier days, they only got your fingerprints if you did a crime. They only got your facial structure IF you had a reason to be in a criminal database and they got a picture to compare it to and so on.

Today, it´s all there. In a database somewhere. Your iPhone fingerprint ID, you Face ID. Just laying there. Or is someone gathering it?

It’s not like I´m afraid, because I´m not a criminal, but I don´t like this feeling, do we got any rights left?

To take everything to an extreme, is this another part of a conspiracy to control us as human beings?

Kinda just airing (lufting in Norwegian, sorry about my bad English), my thoughts over here, but a big part of me is actually really concerned.


I´m actually the girl who covers her webcam and phone cams with a sticker, just to be sure because it´s always given me the creeps how much power electronics/the "right" people have over you.


Thoughts please? And please be kind.

Ha ha, no, there is no conspiracy. These bio-metric access systems on your devices are just a convenience for users, whereas your social media accounts are the real 'database' about who you are...

On the flip side, if you are a criminal, law enforcement agencies are also happy with these new systems as it provides them alternative access to your phone other than a pin code - although professional criminals usually use analog/burner phones with pre-paid sims etc.
 
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Kinbru

Draftee
Oct 27, 2019
16
24
Norway
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Ha ha, no, there is no conspiracy. These bio-metric access systems on your devices are just a convenience for users, whereas your social media accounts are the real 'database' about who you are...

On the flip side, if you are a criminal, law enforcement agencies are also happy with these new systems as it provided them alternative access to your phone other than a pin code - although professional criminals usually use analog/burner phones with pre-paid sims etc.
Thanks.

Ok, if they made all this bio-metric access systems to make it more convenient for users, why not just stick to the finger ID? Why wasn't that good enough? And haven't this fingerprint ID and face scan thing been used in top secret facilities/high tech companies for ages already? So it's hardly anything new, but the Face ID is pretty new on phones, just as the fingerprint thing was a few years ago. And now they have both (fingerprints and Face ID) via your phone. Where does this info go really?? Isn't it now just an easy way to gather a fingerprint and a face from EVERYONE that uses a modern smart phone?

If this is uploaded into a sky or whatever, a database. It CAN be found and misused.

If you look away from all those other databases about ´who you are´ (bc that's another thread) and you just need a face or a fingerprint, it would probably be easy for people who KNOW how to do this, to find it and (mis)use it.

It could also be a powerful tool for surveillance.

Yeah, not really talking about criminals, bc that's true, they probably use burner phones, didn't think of it. Should have deleted the part about criminals. I'm happy the law enforcements are happy about these new systems really, because honestly I'm more concerned about the people above the law enforcement.


I find it really disturbing that our phones gather our faces and fingerprints.
 
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deanc

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Thanks.

Ok, if they made all this bio-metric access systems to make it more convenient for users, why not just stick to the finger ID? Why wasn't that good enough? And haven't this fingerprint ID and face scan thing been used in top secret facilities/high tech companies for ages already? So it's hardly anything new, but the Face ID is pretty new on phones, just as the fingerprint thing was a few years ago. And now they have both (fingerprints and Face ID) via your phone. Where does this info go really?? Isn't it now just an easy way to gather a fingerprint and a face from EVERYONE that uses a modern smart phone?

If this is uploaded into a sky or whatever, a database. It CAN be found and misused.

If you look away from all those other databases about ´who you are´ (bc that's another thread) and you just need a face or a fingerprint, it would probably be easy for people who KNOW how to do this, to find it and (mis)use it.

It could also be a powerful tool for surveillance.

Yeah, not really talking about criminals, bc that's true, they probably use burner phones, didn't think of it. Should have deleted the part about criminals. I'm happy the law enforcements are happy about these new systems really, because honestly I'm more concerned about the people above the law enforcement.


I find it really disturbing that our phones gather our faces and fingerprints.

Technically what your concerned about is 'possible', but definitely not 'easy'.

The related authorities or other (non criminal) parties simply don't have or need or have the required resources/time to collect and store information from anyone's devices ID's, when it's 1000 times easier to access more information than they need from your social media accounts....?
I'm not sure why you are choosing to ignore the fact that you are volunteering far more information via your social media accounts for others to see and/or use than the ID access method for your device.
Same applies for identity theft which I think you're also alluding to/concerned about.

Moreover the privacy laws/communication acts in Australia prohibits your service provider from disclosing any of your device ID information, call or messaging logs, stored data, installed apps, online activities etc. etc. to any third party - 'unless' you are being investigated for a crime...

If you really find it 'disturbing' using any of these new bio-metric access methods for your device then just go back to using a pin code, easy peasy...
 
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The Dice Man

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Today, it´s all there. In a database somewhere. Your iPhone fingerprint ID, you Face ID. Just laying there. Or is someone gathering it?
I don´t like this feeling, do we got any rights left?
In fairness you have consented to this, you chose to do it. Unless I am mistaken, the phone doesn't force you to do a face scan does it?

I'd be more worried about surveillance cameras in the street that have facial recognition capabilities. This will become the norm. Doesn't worry me as I haven't done anything wrong and don't really intend too.

On a related but different tangent, those people who sign up for DNA family history are really helping the police both now and even more in the future. Deb from Dandenong may find she has a brother or uncle who was a rapist and it was her signing up to the DNA family history site that has helped police track down and finger uncle Freddy.

The future is not incognito.
 

Gigantic

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Convenience is cheap these days. People are willing to give up their biometrics for a few seconds off the time it takes to unlock their phones.

Who knows, we might be going towards an authoritarian system of social control where governments have access to Apple's databases or something of that sort. Regardless, governments are already capable of collecting biometric data from CCTV cameras and facial recognition technology anyway.
 

Run n Spread

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 2, 2013
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Yep, every dick pic someone sends, is seen by some creepy spook or copper.

It would be so much better psychologicaly, if they announced all staffers cataloging stiffies, were gay or female.
It is creepy but the amount of man power needed to track everything would mean you'd need a 1:1 ratio of spooks to people. Most just roll the dice. Still if the police want to spy they will court order or not. Their powers and tech would make Stasi Germany blush
 

Howard Littlejohn

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It is creepy but the amount of man power needed to track everything would mean you'd need a 1:1 ratio of spooks to people. Most just roll the dice. Still if the police want to spy they will court order or not. Their powers and tech would make Stasi Germany blush
That's where analytics comes in. Unlike Robodebt, which was inherently flawed and used data-matching rather than statistical methods, the stuff used by security agencies (and marketing agencies) should actually do a pretty good job at identifying you and identifying any features they wish.
 

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Run n Spread

Norm Smith Medallist
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That's where analytics comes in. Unlike Robodebt, which was inherently flawed and used data-matching rather than statistical methods, the stuff used by security agencies (and marketing agencies) should actually do a pretty good job at identifying you and identifying any features they wish.
I get that. But why would they signal me out of 25 million? Where shit gets real is when a specific group is targeted or the gov wants to eliminate opposition and then searches and targets. That is something I would not put beyond any gov hence I understand companies like Apple holding firm
 

Howard Littlejohn

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I get that. But why would they signal me out of 25 million? Where shit gets real is when a specific group is targeted or the gov wants to eliminate opposition and then searches and targets. That is something I would not put beyond any gov hence I understand companies like Apple holding firm
Government probably wouldnt. Unless something in the algorithms alert them; for either security or political reasons.
 

metic

All Australian
Nov 20, 2017
622
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Hawthorn
This is nothing new, I´m sure.

I just got a new iPhone because my old phone died all the time. When I got my new iPhone I got the question to register my Face ID, I didn´t do it because I´m old fashioned, kinda lazy and a little paranoid at nature, but at Uni today I saw how easily people opened their phone with their facial ID instead of using the code to open their phones (it’s the new Fingerprint ID on iPhone), so I caved in. And it´s so easy! It’s a bless you, thank the heavens, how much less frustrated I get when the snow or rain is falling on my screen and I can´t open the damn phone to show my bus ticket, answer a text message and so on.

BUT, all the steps I had to go through to get it, the phone had to get my facial structure left and right, up and down and all that, and in TWO steps. It was an effing biometric scanner.

And that got me thinking, WHO gets this info??!

It also got me thinking about the Fingerprint ID I had on my old Phone.

Is this a way to control us? Is this a way to get our fingerprints and our facial structures to easier identify us? Do they use it if we do something illegal? If they suspect us for something? If they need a way to control us?

Like in the earlier days, they only got your fingerprints if you did a crime. They only got your facial structure (I think) if you had a reason to be in a criminal database and they got a picture to compare it to and so on.

Today, it´s all there. In a database somewhere. Your iPhone fingerprint ID, you Face ID. Just laying there. Or is someone gathering it?
I don´t like this feeling, do we got any rights left?

To take everything to an extreme, is this another part of a conspiracy to control us as human beings?

Kinda just airing ("lufting" in Norwegian, sorry about my bad English), my thoughts over here, but a big part of me is actually really concerned.


I´m actually the girl who covers her webcam and phone cams with a sticker, just to be sure because it´s always given me the creeps how much power electronics/the "right" people have over you.


Thoughts please? And please be kind.
"I´m actually the girl who covers her webcam and phone cams with a sticker, just to be sure because it´s always given me the creeps how much power electronics/the "right" people have over you."

Yes stickers, or blu tack does the job! That stops the pricks taking your picture
 

Kinbru

Draftee
Oct 27, 2019
16
24
Norway
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Technically what your concerned about is 'possible', but definitely not 'easy'.

The related authorities or other (non criminal) parties simply don't have or need or have the required resources/time to collect and store information from anyone's devices ID's, when it's 1000 times easier to access more information than they need from your social media accounts....?
I'm not sure why you are choosing to ignore the fact that you are volunteering far more information via your social media accounts for others to see and/or use than the ID access method for your device.
Same applies for identity theft which I think you're also alluding to/concerned about.

Moreover the privacy laws/communication acts in Australia prohibits your service provider from disclosing any of your device ID information, call or messaging logs, stored data, installed apps, online activities etc. etc. to any third party - 'unless' you are being investigated for a crime...

If you really find it 'disturbing' using any of these new bio-metric access methods for your device then just go back to using a pin code, easy peasy...
Please explain why it would be possible, but not easy, I really want to know everything you have on this.


They don't have time, agreed and it would be stupid to think they would collect, watch or store random information from random peoples phones if someone didn't especially ask for it. So no, I don't think they do and I never said they did. BUT, this information we give them via bio-metric access methods; I think they CAN find and use, now ´easier´ than ever. And even years later because it's stored SOMEWHERE. THAT IS disturbing.

Poor f***ers that's being framed nowadays.

I'm not ignoring the fact that you share more information via your social media accounts about who you are, bc of course you do if you use them. But you don´t give away your facial structure or your finger print on Tumblr, twitter or facebook. You give away your face via pics if you post your photos, your interests if you share your life, and your everyday life and f*cken family if you cave in to the social media circus that's Facebook.
Unless your Face ID or finger ID is also used on your social accounts. Always read the small print.

I honestly don´t know much about Australias privacy laws really, I'm from Norway. But I want to check it out. All around the world really. So thanks for the info.
 
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Kinbru

Draftee
Oct 27, 2019
16
24
Norway
AFL Club
Gold Coast
In fairness you have consented to this, you chose to do it. Unless I am mistaken, the phone doesn't force you to do a face scan does it?

I'd be more worried about surveillance cameras in the street that have facial recognition capabilities. This will become the norm. Doesn't worry me as I haven't done anything wrong and don't really intend too.

On a related but different tangent, those people who sign up for DNA family history are really helping the police both now and even more in the future. Deb from Dandenong may find she has a brother or uncle who was a rapist and it was her signing up to the DNA family history site that has helped police track down and finger uncle Freddy.

The future is not incognito.
Of course I have consented to this, by doing the finger ID on my old phone and now the facial ID for my new phone, just to make it more convenient and easier for myself, so yes. Yes, I have. Never said I didn´t.

I just don't like the way this is going. That's what I´m saying or at least trying to say.

Like you say, we should be more worried about surveillance cameras in the street that have facial recognitions capabillties, YES! That´s the bigger picture of this and I agree we should be worried. We need to worry actually- I'm also worried about our modern phones, bc our phones honestly stores OUR WHOLE life nowadays and people praise their phones.

I haven't done anything wrong either, I just don't like all this control all these modern devices have on us.
 
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deanc

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Please explain why it would be possible, but not easy, I really want to know everything you have on this.


They don't have time, agreed and it would be stupid to think they would collect, watch or store random information from random peoples phones if someone didn't especially ask for it. So no, I don't think they do and I never said they did. BUT, this information we give them via bio-metric access methods; I think they CAN find and use, now ´easier´ than ever. And even years later because it's stored SOMEWHERE. THAT IS disturbing.

Poor f***ers that's being framed nowadays.

I'm not ignoring the fact that you share more information via your social media accounts about who you are, bc of course you do if you use them. But you don´t give away your facial structure or your finger print on Tumblr, twitter or facebook. You give away your face via pics if you post your photos, your interests if you share your life, and your everyday life and f*cken family if you cave in to the social media circus that's Facebook.
Unless your Face ID or finger ID is also used on your social accounts. Always read the small print.

I honestly don´t know much about Australias privacy laws really, I'm from Norway. But I want to check it out. All around the world really. So thanks for the info.
I neither possess the expertise or time to explain - but assuming someone 'has any reason' to hack your device', with the necessary technical knowledge and skill, they can.
I enclose two links to related information, one regarding Australia's privacy laws, for your perusal. Suggest your undertake your own Google search if you need to learn more...


 
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The Dice Man

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Of course I have consented to this, by doing the finger ID on my old phone and now the facial ID for my new phone, just to make it more convenient and easier for myself, so yes. Yes, I have. Never said I didn´t.

I just don't like the way this is going. That's what I´m saying or at least trying to say.

Like you say, we should be more worried about surveillance cameras in the street that have facial recognitions capabillties, YES! That´s the bigger picture of this and I agree we should be worried. We need to worry actually- I'm also worried about our modern phones, bc our phones honestly stores OUR WHOLE life nowadays and people praise their phones.

I haven't done anything wrong either, I just don't like all this control all these modern devices have on us.
In the wise words of some old dude, you can check out anytime you like.
 

Gigantic

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I honestly don´t know much about Australias privacy laws really, I'm from Norway. But I want to check it out. All around the world really. So thanks for the info.
Australia's privacy laws are severely outdated for the digital age and require an overhaul. It's barely fit for tackling a lot of the issues and concerns that people have nowadays regarding surveillance capitalism from companies like Facebook and Google. Not to mention, the regulator in Australia is severely under-funded and lacks teeth at the moment.

There needs to be more of a focus on holding large multinationals accountable and increase in transparency. The current regulatory environment runs more off self-regulation, or moreso quasi-regulation and co-regulation. We need stricter laws, better funded regulators so that companies can be held accountable for unfair practices.

Organisations can basically do anything if a consumer consents to it, but really, do most consumers understand what they're consenting to? Doubt it.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
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Australia's privacy laws are severely outdated for the digital age and require an overhaul. It's barely fit for tackling a lot of the issues and concerns that people have nowadays regarding surveillance capitalism from companies like Facebook and Google. Not to mention, the regulator in Australia is severely under-funded and lacks teeth at the moment.

There needs to be more of a focus on holding large multinationals accountable and increase in transparency. The current regulatory environment runs more off self-regulation, or moreso quasi-regulation and co-regulation. We need stricter laws, better funded regulators so that companies can be held accountable for unfair practices.

Organisations can basically do anything if a consumer consents to it, but really, do most consumers understand what they're consenting to? Doubt it.
Announced a couple of weeks ago. $27 million for the development of a digital platforms specialist branch at the ACCC. For that kind of change they'll want to be the first in the world to get someone's head on a stake.

Plus

New Privacy legislation: The Government will conduct a general review of the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth) (Privacy Act), with particular attention to amending the definition of 'personal information,' the notification requirements, the consent requirements and pro-consumer defaults, and the introduction of direct rights of action for individuals (which may or may not operate in tandem with a new statutory tort of privacy). This will build on the already-announced higher penalties for breach of the Privacy Act. These items will require more consultation with stakeholders, but we can expect the Government to draft new legislation in 2020 to:​
  • increase the maximum civil penalties under the Privacy Act to match those under the Australian Consumer Law; and
  • introduce a binding online privacy code applicable to social media and other online platforms that trade in personal information, to be developed by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner (OAIC).
 

Gigantic

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Announced a couple of weeks ago. $27 million for the development of a digital platforms specialist branch at the ACCC. For that kind of change they'll want to be the first in the world to get someone's head on a stake.

Plus

New Privacy legislation: The Government will conduct a general review of the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth) (Privacy Act), with particular attention to amending the definition of 'personal information,' the notification requirements, the consent requirements and pro-consumer defaults, and the introduction of direct rights of action for individuals (which may or may not operate in tandem with a new statutory tort of privacy). This will build on the already-announced higher penalties for breach of the Privacy Act. These items will require more consultation with stakeholders, but we can expect the Government to draft new legislation in 2020 to:​

  • increase the maximum civil penalties under the Privacy Act to match those under the Australian Consumer Law; and
  • introduce a binding online privacy code applicable to social media and other online platforms that trade in personal information, to be developed by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner (OAIC).
There needs to be more cooperation between OAIC and ACCC - because at the moment the OAIC just isn't resourced enough to be chasing down large organisations the size of Facebook, Google etc. Although really, is any regulator even equipped to do as such?

On top of just hunting the big fish, I'd expect the OAIC to be more front-footed to regulate the entire industry, not just the big fish but also mid-sized companies.

Also, extend the Privacy Act to cover all businesses, not just those with a turnover of $3m. And don't exclude political parties from complying with it either.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
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There needs to be more cooperation between OAIC and ACCC - because at the moment the OAIC just isn't resourced enough to be chasing down large organisations the size of Facebook, Google etc. Although really, is any regulator even equipped to do as such?

On top of just hunting the big fish, I'd expect the OAIC to be more front-footed to regulate the entire industry, not just the big fish but also mid-sized companies.

Also, extend the Privacy Act to cover all businesses, not just those with a turnover of $3m. And don't exclude political parties from complying with it either.
A few of the agencies want to get into this area but it looks like the ACCC has initially been given the budget to go after the big orgs. I imagine once it settles down a combination of the ACCC, ACMA, OAIC will regulate it, and probably the TIO will expand its role as ombudsman.
 

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