Why would we tag a bloke who had 10 clangers?
Who has the better youth, Hawthorn or Collingwood?
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VinnieB
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Haha. You forgot Henry as well. Actually, that last qtr it was Daicos, Henry and McCreery that stood up.
Quaynor had a good game. Ginnivan kicked his 2 goals and should have had a couple more. And people forget how good J Daicos is. Murphyhas been excellent in the backline past 2 weeks back from injury as well.
The VFL team is going along well with only 1 player having played over 15 AFL games in the team. It’s predominantly 1st and 2nd year draft players. A number of injuries over the past few week to them has meant more VFL listed players have had to fill in.
So no I don’t think we’ll be stuffed at all.
It’s interesting when identifying young kids. I know a lot of fans over-rate their kids, but do any over-rate theirs more than the Hawks?
SSSSSS
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Collingwood certainly have a much better senior core in their absolute prime compared to Hawthorn. Not discounting their youth at all but fact is fact. We have a glaring gap in quality at that 25-29 year old mark.
Moore, Crisp, JDG, Maynard, Mihocek, Adams (probably the worst of the lot but still providing grunt), Grundy/Cameron are players under 30 (couple of AA calibre players there). Their senior core >30 years old is also playing very good football still with the evergreen Pendlebury (albeit slowing down) and Howe. Think Sidebottom is probably closest to the end of the 3 but even he is still popping up and contributing like yesterday.
In comparison at Hawthorn we have Mitchell (sometimes bordering on elite, othertimes a liability who hasn't been the same since his broken leg), Wingard (who hasn't been the same since god knows how many calf injuries), Sicily (has been excellent, likely AA this year if uninjured), JOM, Impey. Our 30+ year olds has Breust still playing good footy. Jury is out on Big Boy, looked good this year but I am thinking he is closest to pulling the pin. Gunston started hot but his body is failing him. Shiels has been in and out of the side and is usually out in favour of exposing one of our younger mids.
Both teams have a long way to go but it certainly helps when you have a much better established senior core that bats deeper and is in better form.
On Collingwood's youth, I know Ginnivan has had more plaudits but I might be alone in thinking that Henry has impressed me more this year. Apart from a howler against the Doggies (where at least he was still getting his hands on it), it seems that he has a lot more tricks than Ginnivan going forward.
All in all, I think both sets of teams are pretty happy with where they both are in their stages of their respective rebuilds. Especially compared to North. This thread is absolutely embarrassing.
Moore, Crisp, JDG, Maynard, Mihocek, Adams (probably the worst of the lot but still providing grunt), Grundy/Cameron are players under 30 (couple of AA calibre players there). Their senior core >30 years old is also playing very good football still with the evergreen Pendlebury (albeit slowing down) and Howe. Think Sidebottom is probably closest to the end of the 3 but even he is still popping up and contributing like yesterday.
In comparison at Hawthorn we have Mitchell (sometimes bordering on elite, othertimes a liability who hasn't been the same since his broken leg), Wingard (who hasn't been the same since god knows how many calf injuries), Sicily (has been excellent, likely AA this year if uninjured), JOM, Impey. Our 30+ year olds has Breust still playing good footy. Jury is out on Big Boy, looked good this year but I am thinking he is closest to pulling the pin. Gunston started hot but his body is failing him. Shiels has been in and out of the side and is usually out in favour of exposing one of our younger mids.
Both teams have a long way to go but it certainly helps when you have a much better established senior core that bats deeper and is in better form.
On Collingwood's youth, I know Ginnivan has had more plaudits but I might be alone in thinking that Henry has impressed me more this year. Apart from a howler against the Doggies (where at least he was still getting his hands on it), it seems that he has a lot more tricks than Ginnivan going forward.
All in all, I think both sets of teams are pretty happy with where they both are in their stages of their respective rebuilds. Especially compared to North. This thread is absolutely embarrassing.
The VFL players you are referring to will not seamlessly slip into the senior side and replace your senior players. Like everyone else it will take 50-100 games to find their feet. VFL standard at the moment is also pretty bad.
I suspect a few of your your current young players will drop off a bit too once they lose that senior support, which is normal too.
Daicos, Henry and Murphy are guns. I have a feeling Ginnivan will be worked out pretty quickly by opposition coaches once some effort goes into stopping him. What other elite talent is coming through? Is there an Oliver, Brayshaw, McKay, Walsh, Neale, Andrews etc?
We saw the hype around the 'rebuilding' Essendon last year when they had Cox, Perkins, Ridley, Snelling etc flying; so I wouldn't be labeling Hawthorn supporters as over the top if I were you.
VinnieB
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Henry was always regarded higher.
After all, Ginnivan, although rated by some ‘experts’ was a rookie selection. He is a genuinely smart footballer.
We have a glaring gap at that 22-25 age bracket. We have a good core at 26-28. Over 30 we have Pendlebury, Howe and Sidey. Pendlebury and Sidey have not been that good this season.
It’s a pity McInness did his shoulder. This kid has had a few injuries to start his career, but will probably be right up there as our best from that 2020 draft.
VinnieB
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Ok. Still hurting are you?
BIGHAWK23
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To answer your last question yes
North over-rated theirs pretty bad
And Vinnie
*I forgot Henry, he was pretty decent
Which kids have we overated?
Newcombe? No
Day? No
CJ? No
Lewis? No
Reeves? No
Moore? No
Butler and Macdonald showing plenty of signs they will be good players in the future
Ward will come back in after his concussion
Which kids have we over- rated?
Only one potentially would be brockman, who will most likely leave at seasons end
SSSSSS
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Newcombe, Lewis, CJ, Moore, Scrimshaw, Day, Nash, Kosi, Reeves, DGB, Morrison, MacDonald.
12 of our best 22 are currently 23 and under. The bolded have shown in my eyes A grade potential (based on the positions they play in). DGB is a high draft pick and a young developing tall. Ward is probably not quite best 22 yet but is a high draft pick and a developing midfielder. Butler is still finding his feet after his recent debut but I wouldn't call him best 22 just yet.
Jury still out on those that aren't bolded but I can see them all being at the very least decent best 22 contributors to a budding top 8 side (especially given our performances against some of the cream in the crop this year and last).
What is clear to see is our midfield at that age bracket is very thin. Hopefully it's a big focus of our draft haul this year and with the amount of teams on the bottom end needing quality talls, hopefully it means one of the higher rated mids are available to us.
Forgot to add Worpel. I still have hopes he can return to his 2019 PCM winning form but something isn't quite right between the ears and hasn't been for a while. Another who could join the bolded above but I just can't see it at the moment.
12 of our best 22 are currently 23 and under. The bolded have shown in my eyes A grade potential (based on the positions they play in). DGB is a high draft pick and a young developing tall. Ward is probably not quite best 22 yet but is a high draft pick and a developing midfielder. Butler is still finding his feet after his recent debut but I wouldn't call him best 22 just yet.
Jury still out on those that aren't bolded but I can see them all being at the very least decent best 22 contributors to a budding top 8 side (especially given our performances against some of the cream in the crop this year and last).
What is clear to see is our midfield at that age bracket is very thin. Hopefully it's a big focus of our draft haul this year and with the amount of teams on the bottom end needing quality talls, hopefully it means one of the higher rated mids are available to us.
Forgot to add Worpel. I still have hopes he can return to his 2019 PCM winning form but something isn't quite right between the ears and hasn't been for a while. Another who could join the bolded above but I just can't see it at the moment.
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Yep Henry a first round pick.
It isnt looking horrendous anymore
Maynard, Quaynor, Murphy, Noble down back is great coverage
J.Daicos, Lipinski in the middle are carrying bigger loads this year
Would be great if Kreuger gets a run at it as a tall forward.
Yep
Moore, DeGoey, Grundy, Cameron, Adams, Crisp all should have plenty of footy ahead of them.
Combine with out 22-25 names have a solid core right now
B - Murphy, Noble
HB - Maynard, Moore, Quaynor
C - J.Daicos, Adams, Lipinski
HF - DeGoey, Cameron
FF - Kreuger, ??
Foll - Grundy, Crisp
So sprinkle in some kids like Henry, N.Daicos, McReery, Ginnivan, McInnes, Poulter etc
The vets like Pendles, Sidey, WHE are still providing great leadership and nous, but hardly the driving force anymore like they were back in 18-19.
Tis actually a nice blend at the moment, and we should be aiming for finals
Just for information sakes. Below is the list of players for pies and how many times they have been in the best this season from the AFL site
10 - Crisp
7 - N Daicos, Lipinski
6 - Adams , De Goey , Pendlebury
5 - Howe, J Daicos,
3 - Mihocek , Cameron
2 - Moore, Ginnivan, Noble ,Henry
1 - McCreery, Elliott , Quaynor , Grundy, Maynard, Cox , Sidebottom
The ones of those who i think would retire come two seasons time. Pendlebury, Howe, Cox, Sidebottom
The ones probably 4 seasons off at least, Elliott, Mihocek, Adams
Thats 7 players to replace.
I cant be stuffed going through their replacements or the move the club should make.
Its amusing other oppo supporters paint us like we have a Geelong aged list and reliant on those players only.
10 - Crisp
7 - N Daicos, Lipinski
6 - Adams , De Goey , Pendlebury
5 - Howe, J Daicos,
3 - Mihocek , Cameron
2 - Moore, Ginnivan, Noble ,Henry
1 - McCreery, Elliott , Quaynor , Grundy, Maynard, Cox , Sidebottom
The ones of those who i think would retire come two seasons time. Pendlebury, Howe, Cox, Sidebottom
The ones probably 4 seasons off at least, Elliott, Mihocek, Adams
Thats 7 players to replace.
I cant be stuffed going through their replacements or the move the club should make.
Its amusing other oppo supporters paint us like we have a Geelong aged list and reliant on those players only.
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If only people realised what little time we had on this planet, in the grand scheme of things - is it really best spent arguing over who has potential better under 25 players? Lmao carry on...
Sometimes I find it hard to reconcile the Vinnie of the off season and the Vinnie in season.
In the off season, you were predicting Hawthorn would win the spoon, rubbished many of our youngsters (particularly Lewis from memory), were certain we would be bottom 4 and called me delusional for suggesting North wouldn't win twice as many games as Hawthorn this season (you were adamant North would fly past and comfortably finish ahead). I didn't agree with pretty much everything you posted in relation to our fortunes or your own.
Now, in season, I find myself agreeing with nearly all of your views. You have given due praise to Jiath, Moore, Scrimshaw and Lewis this season. You have correctly highlighted the strengths of Newcombe and our team in general. I agreed when you said Hawthorn were beaten in more areas than just the ruck against Gold Coast. I agree that Newcombe wasn't tagged this week (but was last week). I also agree that you have youngsters besides Daicos and Ginnivan playing well (in fact, I don't think it was Ginnivan's best game). Quaynor was excellent throughout. Henry had a significant purple patch late in the game. Murphy was very assured and won contests against more senior players down back (albeit Gunston was hobbled).
I think youngsters on both sides have taken strides this year and surpassed external expectations. Hopefully this continues for both of our sides (well, I'm hoping moreso for Hawthorn obviously)
VinnieB
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Great contribution. Took you plenty of digging over the past few days but you put your thinking cap on and uncovered an issue which isn't as obvious to the rest of the league and BigFooty. I hope you are recognised for it.
Yes we need a key position forward in particular.
Kreuger was recruited to help in this area. It was unfortunate he did a shoulder. Obviously raw, but was aggressive and actually had an impact on our forward line when he played early season.
There are a couple of 19 year olds who look promising, but still realistically a couple of years away and that's assuming they continue to improve at the required level.
I suspect we may recruit one in the coming draft, and who knows, we may be able to find another Mihocek in state leagues.
We don't need a star. Just a good player who competes and be a nuisance.
Your parents will be proud.
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Well they will need to find every key post other than a CHB.
Dewyyyyy
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Think most people would've expected it, he was handed everything on a silver platter during a good time and a good team. He wasn't ever gonna work hard enough, especially in a poor side like North. Although all the North fans would probably call you dumb and say he's the greatest player ever.
