Who has the better youth, Hawthorn or Collingwood?

[Blackhawk42]

Think this is the guts of it. We are arguing about the youth of 2 teams who havent got very good youth. As you say there are 10 teams you can reel off who have a clear better young half of their list than the Pies or Hawks. I think both teams are on a bit of a wing and a prayer to make their rebuilds work.

This isn't incorrect, but it gets more interesting if you ask the follow up question about depth.

Happy to admit I'd prefer the collective of McKay, Walsh and Weitering on my list, but I'd take Hawthorns bottom 6 every day of the week over the Blues. Squads win flags. Some clubs lacking in the depth department need a lot of luck with injuries.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The rep game in 2021. Vic Country v Vic Metro. Ward sounds like he was great, 29 disposals, 8 clearances, 2 goals, I will take your word for it he was BOG but still Daicos with 41 disposals, 6 clearances and 2 goals must have been a pretty close 2nd. If he could do all that while squibbing the contest God help the rest if he fixes it.

I think there was one moment (in a Ward highlights package) where he picked up the ball and handballed it instantaneously. It wasn't a good handball. I remember that getting picked up on over on our board as a squib moment.

IMO it wasn't a squib moment, it looked like his mind was going too quick for his body as he saw a player on the move and tried to get it to them in one motion. Maybe he could have held onto it and found a different option, but then the moment would have been lost.

You certainly can't label someone a squib based on that one passage of play.

 

[Pessimistic]

Yeah he is going to struggle.

A last we see footage where the kicks arrive at their target rather than the footage cutting off (cos there was a turnover or something)

 

[VinnieB]

A last we see footage where the kicks arrive at their target rather than the footage cutting off (cos there was a turnover or something)

Did you enjoy his skills? Sliding into a contest, grabbing the ball and handpassing it out of congestion to a moving target in the clear.
There are plenty more where he takes the ball and hits targets if you want to see them.

 

[Rusty Beam]

A last we see footage where the kicks arrive at their target rather than the footage cutting off (cos there was a turnover or something)

Personally I really like the baseline footy highlight clips.

They generally really emphasise how a player moves through traffic and the quickness of their decision making. Just something about the perspective in which they are shot compared to general game footage.

Zac Taylors was incredible and part of the reason I was devastated to just miss out on him.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Think this is the guts of it. We are arguing about the youth of 2 teams who havent got very good youth. As you say there are 10 teams you can reel off who have a clear better young half of their list than the Pies or Hawks. I think both teams are on a bit of a wing and a prayer to make their rebuilds work.

I remember being at the top of the ladder and thinking how futile it is to compare youngsters on a list as by the time they are senior leaders, lists will have undergone so much change to make the comparisons virtually meaningless.

With that said, I agree with nearly everything you have said in this thread (and your posting in general tbh) but found the above part about there being 10 clubs with better youth to be an intriguing comment. Not to suggest it is incorrect but I am curious to explore this further.

Where would each of these clubs sit if comparing Best 22's of 23 and under talent? It probably warrants a thread of its own.

Would Hawthorn really not be top 10? I'm not actually sure.

Before undertaking a closer look, I am confident that Geelong would be 18th in this regard as they have very little young players to begin with. This thread rightfully places Hawthorn ahead of Collingwood. The other thread places us behind North but about equal with Adelaide. I would think Hawthorn would at least be ahead of Richmond and West Coast (as more senior teams coming off periods of success), off the top of my head. Would need a closer look at the actual players/22's of young talent from other clubs to make a call.

 

[Matrix10]

Moore and Scrimshaw already considered elite by champion data. Based on the improvement trend line on the two over the past 2 years, they will be A graders this season. Jiath and Day are above average by CD and you’d expect if they can be injury free theyll be A by seasons end. Special players.

Lewis has been smashing pre season kicking 8 (4 on Hartigan til half time) in one game. I expect he is another who will be considered a star before seasons end. Thats 5 young stars. Plus high level draftees from last year, thats the core of a future premiership team by Hawthorn standards. The others on the list, time will tell IMO with Newcombe likely to be the best of them. Not convinced Nash, Morrison, Brockman and Kosi will be any more than average but could easily prove me wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Champion Data .

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I think there was one moment (in a Ward highlights package) where he picked up the ball and handballed it instantaneously. It wasn't a good handball. I remember that getting picked up on over on our board as a squib moment.

IMO it wasn't a squib moment, it looked like his mind was going too quick for his body as he saw a player on the move and tried to get it to them in one motion. Maybe he could have held onto it and found a different option, but then the moment would have been lost.

You certainly can't label someone a squib based on that one passage of play.

I think the reason for the label at times was also in the Ward clip where he hadn't even got the ball, instead of pushing through and trying to get the ball, he played for the free, while Ward got it, handpassed it off and yeah.

 

[chopflop]

Did you enjoy his skills? Sliding into a contest, grabbing the ball and handpassing it out of congestion to a moving target in the clear.
There are plenty more where he takes the ball and hits targets if you want to see them.

VinnieB watching Daicos highlights all summer

 

[VinnieB]

VinnieB watching Daicos highlights all summer

back from Mensa?

I prefer to educate your crew on how this kid can play with footage of the recent intra-club game,
rather than trawling the net looking for shirtless pics of players like The 'Lonely' Lad enjoys doing over on your forum.

 

[chopflop]

back from Mensa?

I prefer to educate your crew on how this kid can play with footage of the recent intra-club game,
rather than trawling the net looking for shirtless pics of players like The 'Lonely' Lad enjoys doing over on your forum.

Nah fair play Vinnie. I also enjoy watching will day highlights and I also find it hard to contain myself.

When you are at the bottom of the pile, it's pretty natural to get over invested in the next generation (youf!) coming through.

I am assuming the reference to Mensa was some crack at my intelligence being above that of your average troglodyte? It's funny you think this would be insulting and not a reflection of your own negative self-image.

 

[VinnieB]

Nah fair play Vinnie. I also enjoy watching will day highlights and I also find it hard to contain myself.

When you are at the bottom of the pile, it's pretty natural to get over invested in the next generation (youf!) coming through.

I am assuming the reference to Mensa was some crack at my intelligence being above that of your average troglodyte? It's funny you think this would be insulting and not a reflection of your own negative self-image.

Well, bright one, you did get your little giggles from posting that original clip. Genius. I wonder who in fact struggles with self image.

 

[Seedsfan]

I guess we will have a clearer picture after the trail game. As isn’t that the idea of these preseason trial games play the kids to sell hope

 

[Gone Critical]

I remember being at the top of the ladder and thinking how futile it is to compare youngsters on a list as by the time they are senior leaders, lists will have undergone so much change to make the comparisons virtually meaningless.

With that said, I agree with nearly everything you have said in this thread (and your posting in general tbh) but found the above part about there being 10 clubs with better youth to be an intriguing comment. Not to suggest it is incorrect but I am curious to explore this further.

Where would each of these clubs sit if comparing Best 22's of 23 and under talent? It probably warrants a thread of its own.

Would Hawthorn really not be top 10? I'm not actually sure.

Before undertaking a closer look, I am confident that Geelong would be 18th in this regard as they have very little young players to begin with. This thread rightfully places Hawthorn ahead of Collingwood. The other thread places us behind North but about equal with Adelaide. I would think Hawthorn would at least be ahead of Richmond and West Coast (as more senior teams coming off periods of success), off the top of my head. Would need a closer look at the actual players/22's of young talent from other clubs to make a call.

I think the Geelongs, WCE , Richmonds are all pretty weak in the youth department

Its the top 4 sides, Melbourne, Dogs, Port and Brisbane all have excellent youth. Gold Coast and GWS have riches on paper, hopefully for their sake they can devop them. Carl have a stellar top end which is the hardest part. Essendon look very strong, makes me sick to be honest. Freo and Sydney clearly stand above our 2 teams.

Reckon NM, Adel and Saints also better but not as clearcut.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I think the Geelongs, WCE , Richmonds are all pretty weak in the youth department

Its the top 4 sides, Melbourne, Dogs, Port and Brisbane all have excellent youth. Gold Coast and GWS have riches on paper, hopefully for their sake they can devop them. Carl have a stellar top end which is the hardest part. Essendon look very strong, makes me sick to be honest. Freo and Sydney clearly stand above our 2 teams.

Reckon NM, Adel and Saints also better but not as clearcut.

Good post, thank you.

Just picking one of the 'excellent youth', top 4 sides as an example - the Brisbane Lions, and comparing everyone 23 and under that have played at AFL level, you get the following:

Key defenders:

Jack Payne - pretty raw, been 'ok' in his 15 games.

Comparative verdict: I'd prefer DGB who has shown a similar amount but is 2 years younger and more highly rated.

General defenders

Brandon Starcevich - quality lockdown small.
James Madden - Depth level player - 22 yo, 15 disposal max
Noah Answerth - decent enough player but a '2 week' injury in 2020 has turned into 3 surgeries and no footy in nearly 2 years so huge question marks.

Comparative verdict - Jiath, Scrimshaw, Bramble and others put Hawthorn ahead on young defenders in my view.

Ruck

No one really - Fullarton is the only possible ruck who's played but I have counted him as a key forward who has played in all parts of the ground. Averaged 3.5 hit outs.

Comparative verdict: Obvious win to Hawthorn with Reeves and Lynch compared to no exposed young rucks.

Midfield

Hugh Mc Luggage - Gun wing and best talent from either club in this bracket
Dev Robertson - Shown some good signs early
Jaxon Prior - not convinced yet, averaging 10 disposals
Tom Berry - Not yet had more than 11 touches in a game so not convinced yet.
Harry Sharp - 2 games of little impact - too early to tell.

Comparative verdict: Happy to give this to Brisbane based on McLuggage alone. Worpel, Day and Newcombe are more than competitive with the rest with Nash, Downie, etc in the Prior, Berry, Sharp bracket of unproven.

Key forwards

Tom Fullarton - played back and forward but has only kicked 3 goals in his 12 games and not really had a standout match

Comparative verdict: Comfortable Hawthorn win with Lewis and Kozi both well ahead (and Kozi much younger). Jeka another option at Hawthorn.

General Forwards

Zac Bailey - Gun
Cam Rayner - highly credentialed but underwhelming so far (11 disposals and less than a goal a game career average, with stats declining from his first year) and coming off a knee reco.
Keidean Coleman - Don't know what to make of him yet. He has some tricks but is nearly 22 and averages 10 disposals, 2 tackles and 0.4 of a goal (spent time in defence too).

Comparative verdict: Again, happy to give it to Brisbane based on Bailey alone but I really rate Dylan Moore and Brockman showed good signs in his first year.

Overall: Brisbane lack key position players in the 23 and under bracket. Hawthorn have the better young defence, young forwardline and young rucks. Brisbane have the better young midfield, particularly if you expect Bailey (and Rayner if he comes good) to move there.

I get that Brisbane are in their window and have no real motivation to blood young players, particularly with the likes of Hipwood and Andrews still just 25 and most of their stars still in their prime. But just because they are top 4 doesn't mean their youth need to be overrated here. Aside from a couple of standouts (MCLuggage and Bailey mainly, with Starcevich a good role player) their youth is not particularly special and certainly lacking both diversity and depth.

N.B. If Hawthorn and Brisbane were to swap 23 and under talent, Hawthorn would have comfortably won the spoon last year and would be very unlikely to win a single game this year. We would have no key forwards whatsoever, no rucks and very little drive/intercepting from the backline. The only noticeable improvement would be on one wing. I think this suggests that Hawthorn's young talent definitely have more bases covered and generally shown more than Brisbane's.

 

[VinnieB]

Good post, thank you.

Just picking one of the 'excellent youth', top 4 sides as an example - the Brisbane Lions, and comparing everyone 23 and under that have played at AFL level, you get the following:

Key defenders:

Jack Payne - pretty raw, been 'ok' in his 15 games.

Comparative verdict: I'd prefer DGB who has shown a similar amount but is 2 years younger and more highly rated.

General defenders

Brandon Starcevich - quality lockdown small.
James Madden - Depth level player - 22 yo, 15 disposal max
Noah Answerth - decent enough player but a '2 week' injury in 2020 has turned into 3 surgeries and no footy in nearly 2 years so huge question marks.

Comparative verdict - Jiath, Scrimshaw, Bramble and others put Hawthorn ahead on young defenders in my view.

Ruck

No one really - Fullarton is the only possible ruck who's played but I have counted him as a key forward who has played in all parts of the ground. Averaged 3.5 hit outs.

Comparative verdict: Obvious win to Hawthorn with Reeves and Lynch compared to no exposed young rucks.

Midfield

Hugh Mc Luggage - Gun wing and best talent from either club in this bracket
Dev Robertson - Shown some good signs early
Jaxon Prior - not convinced yet, averaging 10 disposals
Tom Berry - Not yet had more than 11 touches in a game so not convinced yet.
Harry Sharp - 2 games of little impact - too early to tell.

Comparative verdict: Happy to give this to Brisbane based on McLuggage alone. Worpel, Day and Newcombe are more than competitive with the rest with Nash, Downie, etc in the Prior, Berry, Sharp bracket of unproven.

Key forwards

Tom Fullarton - played back and forward but has only kicked 3 goals in his 12 games and not really had a standout match

Comparative verdict: Comfortable Hawthorn win with Lewis and Kozi both well ahead (and Kozi much younger). Jeka another option at Hawthorn.

General Forwards

Zac Bailey - Gun
Cam Rayner - highly credentialed but underwhelming so far (11 disposals and less than a goal a game career average, with stats declining from his first year) and coming off a knee reco.
Keidean Coleman - Don't know what to make of him yet. He has some tricks but is nearly 22 and averages 10 disposals, 2 tackles and 0.4 of a goal (spent time in defence too).

Comparative verdict: Again, happy to give it to Brisbane based on Bailey alone but I really rate Dylan Moore and Brockman showed good signs in his first year.

Overall: Brisbane lack key position players in the 23 and under bracket. Hawthorn have the better young defence, young forwardline and young rucks. Brisbane have the better young midfield, particularly if you expect Bailey (and Rayner if he comes good) to move there.

I get that Brisbane are in their window and have no real motivation to blood young players, particularly with the likes of Hipwood and Andrews still just 25 and most of their stars still in their prime. But just because they are top 4 doesn't mean their youth need to be overrated here. Aside from a couple of standouts (MCLuggage and Bailey mainly, with Starcevich a good role player) their youth is not particularly special and certainly lacking both diversity and depth.

N.B. If Hawthorn and Brisbane were to swap 23 and under talent, Hawthorn would have comfortably won the spoon last year and would be very unlikely to win a single game this year. We would have no key forwards whatsoever, no rucks and very little drive/intercepting from the backline. The only noticeable improvement would be on one wing. I think this suggests that Hawthorn's young talent definitely have more bases covered and generally shown more than Brisbane's.

Hipwood was 24 late in 2021. And Cam Rayner is very handy (if fit).

Either way you would expect a team challenging for the premiership to generally have fewer younger players in the best 22. The fact is the incumbent players are so good that it’s difficult to get games into the younger kids.

Would half those Hawthorn players have got a look in if they were recruited by the Lions? Probably not. They wouldn’t have had the opportunity to play and so naturally wouldn’t be able to properly compare them.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Hipwood was 24 late in 2021. And Cam Rayner is very handy (if fit).

Either way you would expect a team challenging for the premiership to generally have fewer younger players in the best 22. The fact is the incumbent players are so good that it’s difficult to get games into the younger kids.

Would half those Hawthorn players have got a look in if they were recruited by the Lions? Probably not. They wouldn’t have had the opportunity to play and so naturally wouldn’t be able to properly compare them.

Yes, I highlighted both of those factors myself.

I just was interested in the call that there are 'at least' 10 sides with better youth. I wasn't even saying that call was incorrect but was intrigued by it and decided to explore 1 example (picked at random) of a club said to have 'excellent youth' that was suggested as comfortably better than the youth at our clubs.

I know there are legitimate and obvious reasons why their youth are less exposed than Hawthorn's but I was interesting nonetheless to discover that they are but one example of a club whose 23 and under talent is not clearly superior as first thought. Would be interesting (at least to me) to explore the exercise for all clubs.

(BY the way, I have also made it clear that having the better 23 and under talent is not an overly meaningful or predictive exercise - particularly when comparing rebuilding to contending clubs I am under no illusion that there are a multitude of factors for determining future success beyond confining it to exposed talent aged 23 and under)

 

[Yoda_]

Good post, thank you.

Just picking one of the 'excellent youth', top 4 sides as an example - the Brisbane Lions, and comparing everyone 23 and under that have played at AFL level, you get the following:

Key defenders:

Jack Payne - pretty raw, been 'ok' in his 15 games.

Comparative verdict: I'd prefer DGB who has shown a similar amount but is 2 years younger and more highly rated.

General defenders

Brandon Starcevich - quality lockdown small.
James Madden - Depth level player - 22 yo, 15 disposal max
Noah Answerth - decent enough player but a '2 week' injury in 2020 has turned into 3 surgeries and no footy in nearly 2 years so huge question marks.

Comparative verdict - Jiath, Scrimshaw, Bramble and others put Hawthorn ahead on young defenders in my view.

Ruck

No one really - Fullarton is the only possible ruck who's played but I have counted him as a key forward who has played in all parts of the ground. Averaged 3.5 hit outs.

Comparative verdict: Obvious win to Hawthorn with Reeves and Lynch compared to no exposed young rucks.

Midfield

Hugh Mc Luggage - Gun wing and best talent from either club in this bracket
Dev Robertson - Shown some good signs early
Jaxon Prior - not convinced yet, averaging 10 disposals
Tom Berry - Not yet had more than 11 touches in a game so not convinced yet.
Harry Sharp - 2 games of little impact - too early to tell.

Comparative verdict: Happy to give this to Brisbane based on McLuggage alone. Worpel, Day and Newcombe are more than competitive with the rest with Nash, Downie, etc in the Prior, Berry, Sharp bracket of unproven.

Key forwards

Tom Fullarton - played back and forward but has only kicked 3 goals in his 12 games and not really had a standout match

Comparative verdict: Comfortable Hawthorn win with Lewis and Kozi both well ahead (and Kozi much younger). Jeka another option at Hawthorn.

General Forwards

Zac Bailey - Gun
Cam Rayner - highly credentialed but underwhelming so far (11 disposals and less than a goal a game career average, with stats declining from his first year) and coming off a knee reco.
Keidean Coleman - Don't know what to make of him yet. He has some tricks but is nearly 22 and averages 10 disposals, 2 tackles and 0.4 of a goal (spent time in defence too).

Comparative verdict: Again, happy to give it to Brisbane based on Bailey alone but I really rate Dylan Moore and Brockman showed good signs in his first year.

Overall: Brisbane lack key position players in the 23 and under bracket. Hawthorn have the better young defence, young forwardline and young rucks. Brisbane have the better young midfield, particularly if you expect Bailey (and Rayner if he comes good) to move there.

I get that Brisbane are in their window and have no real motivation to blood young players, particularly with the likes of Hipwood and Andrews still just 25 and most of their stars still in their prime. But just because they are top 4 doesn't mean their youth need to be overrated here. Aside from a couple of standouts (MCLuggage and Bailey mainly, with Starcevich a good role player) their youth is not particularly special and certainly lacking both diversity and depth.

N.B. If Hawthorn and Brisbane were to swap 23 and under talent, Hawthorn would have comfortably won the spoon last year and would be very unlikely to win a single game this year. We would have no key forwards whatsoever, no rucks and very little drive/intercepting from the backline. The only noticeable improvement would be on one wing. I think this suggests that Hawthorn's young talent definitely have more bases covered and generally shown more than Brisbane's.

shock horror, team fighting for premiership glory isn't over reliant on youth..

Try again with a more comparable team now

 

[xmarksthespot]

I think the Geelongs, WCE , Richmonds are all pretty weak in the youth department

Its the top 4 sides, Melbourne, Dogs, Port and Brisbane all have excellent youth. Gold Coast and GWS have riches on paper, hopefully for their sake they can devop them. Carl have a stellar top end which is the hardest part. Essendon look very strong, makes me sick to be honest. Freo and Sydney clearly stand above our 2 teams.

Reckon NM, Adel and Saints also better but not as clearcut.

shock horror, team fighting for premiership glory isn't over reliant on youth..

Try again with a more comparable team now

He was responding to this. It helps if you read more than just the last post.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

shock horror, team fighting for premiership glory isn't over reliant on youth..

Try again with a more comparable team now

I'm not sure if you read the clauses I've made about this several times (including in the post you quoted) or the fact that Brisbane was one of the examples used as having superior (and 'excellent') youth. For context, it was one of the first clubs raised by a poster highlighting that there were at least 10 clubs with better youth. In fact, all of the main premiership contenders were provided as 'clearly superior' examples. I just picked 1 at random for a closer analysis.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He was responding to this. It helps if you read more than just the last post.

Lower your expectations.

 

[Jen2310]

OP has also forgotten Murley and Harrison ( The latter, who did pretty well in the intraclub. Fastest kid in last years draft + kicked 2 goals last Friday. Played up forward from 8 disposals. 100% effiency by foot, 80% by hand) Kinda gives me Ginni vibes with his knack around goal.

 

[Gone Critical]

Good post, thank you.

Just picking one of the 'excellent youth', top 4 sides as an example - the Brisbane Lions, and comparing everyone 23 and under that have played at AFL level, you get the following:

Key defenders:

Jack Payne - pretty raw, been 'ok' in his 15 games.

Comparative verdict: I'd prefer DGB who has shown a similar amount but is 2 years younger and more highly rated.

General defenders

Brandon Starcevich - quality lockdown small.
James Madden - Depth level player - 22 yo, 15 disposal max
Noah Answerth - decent enough player but a '2 week' injury in 2020 has turned into 3 surgeries and no footy in nearly 2 years so huge question marks.

Comparative verdict - Jiath, Scrimshaw, Bramble and others put Hawthorn ahead on young defenders in my view.

Ruck

No one really - Fullarton is the only possible ruck who's played but I have counted him as a key forward who has played in all parts of the ground. Averaged 3.5 hit outs.

Comparative verdict: Obvious win to Hawthorn with Reeves and Lynch compared to no exposed young rucks.

Midfield

Hugh Mc Luggage - Gun wing and best talent from either club in this bracket
Dev Robertson - Shown some good signs early
Jaxon Prior - not convinced yet, averaging 10 disposals
Tom Berry - Not yet had more than 11 touches in a game so not convinced yet.
Harry Sharp - 2 games of little impact - too early to tell.

Comparative verdict: Happy to give this to Brisbane based on McLuggage alone. Worpel, Day and Newcombe are more than competitive with the rest with Nash, Downie, etc in the Prior, Berry, Sharp bracket of unproven.

Key forwards

Tom Fullarton - played back and forward but has only kicked 3 goals in his 12 games and not really had a standout match

Comparative verdict: Comfortable Hawthorn win with Lewis and Kozi both well ahead (and Kozi much younger). Jeka another option at Hawthorn.

General Forwards

Zac Bailey - Gun
Cam Rayner - highly credentialed but underwhelming so far (11 disposals and less than a goal a game career average, with stats declining from his first year) and coming off a knee reco.
Keidean Coleman - Don't know what to make of him yet. He has some tricks but is nearly 22 and averages 10 disposals, 2 tackles and 0.4 of a goal (spent time in defence too).

Comparative verdict: Again, happy to give it to Brisbane based on Bailey alone but I really rate Dylan Moore and Brockman showed good signs in his first year.

Overall: Brisbane lack key position players in the 23 and under bracket. Hawthorn have the better young defence, young forwardline and young rucks. Brisbane have the better young midfield, particularly if you expect Bailey (and Rayner if he comes good) to move there.

I get that Brisbane are in their window and have no real motivation to blood young players, particularly with the likes of Hipwood and Andrews still just 25 and most of their stars still in their prime. But just because they are top 4 doesn't mean their youth need to be overrated here. Aside from a couple of standouts (MCLuggage and Bailey mainly, with Starcevich a good role player) their youth is not particularly special and certainly lacking both diversity and depth.

N.B. If Hawthorn and Brisbane were to swap 23 and under talent, Hawthorn would have comfortably won the spoon last year and would be very unlikely to win a single game this year. We would have no key forwards whatsoever, no rucks and very little drive/intercepting from the backline. The only noticeable improvement would be on one wing. I think this suggests that Hawthorn's young talent definitely have more bases covered and generally shown more than Brisbane's.

Good analysis.

My 10 sides argument dates 12 months when I related it to the hole Collingwood had in our list from the draft after Moore/De Goey. We had used 5 successive round 1 picks on 3 players who were already out the back door. Beams, Treloar and Stevo.

I used the debut years from 2016 to 2020 to make the argument, it may need to be rechecked

Still on that criteria and at that time I had Bris with bonefide potential A graders in McCluggage, Rayner, Hipwood and Bailey. Bris probably stands re evaluation so my claim may be a bit lazy. Still Bris and most of the teams I am thinking of have much more obvious top end talent among their youngsters. There is a lot more maybes at Hawks and Pies. Moreso Pies , as I am not confident we have been in the position to correct our woes unless a lot of cards fall our way.

If the 4 Lions I mentioned stay of trajectory I think its a lot easier for them to build their next generation that either of us.

P.S will be a pretty interesting hit out this afternoon

 

[Blackhawk42]

All I hope for are no overreactions after today's 6 QUARTER PRACTICE GAME WITH 44 BLOKES ON EACH TEAM.

Just want to see our new boys have a competitive run at the highest level for the first time in their careers.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

All I hope for are no overreactions after today's 6 QUARTER PRACTICE GAME WITH 44 BLOKES ON EACH TEAM.

Just want to see our new boys have a competitive run at the highest level for the first time in their careers.

The only thing I care about is no injuries.