Who is accountable for our club's catastrophic misreading of our list?

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Slippery Pete

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They showed a clip after the game of Pyke sitting in the dug our, head in hands looking a broken man. His press conference seemed to mimic this.

Hope this is a case of last straw, leading to significant questions and changes.
I like Don but he isn’t the most inspiring man on the planet. And that’s fine, not every coach has to be that motivational, walk-over-hot-coals sort of leader like Jack Cahill, but if it isn’t their forte they do have to surround themselves with at least a few like that.

Our assistant coaches are possibly the most uninspiring bunch of human beings ever assembled in a group. With Hart, Camporeale and Clarke leading the charge of Club Bland.

Throw in Brett Birdbrain as footy department head and I’m surprised some of our guys stay the fu** awake at West Lakes, let alone get inspired.
 

harryharlow

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Okay, I will bite. Brad Crouch retiring or being moved on would be disastrous for our club. Forgetting the hole he would leave, but what affect would that have on his brother if we looked to screw Brad over.

b Crouch is an inside link up player. Without stats I would guess most of his possessions are contested or at least under pressure. He is no Danger or Kelly. He is B Crouch and he is quality.

The other thing is you are suggesting nearly a quarter of our side either retire or we trade out. That is dangerous if players coming in for them lack experience. That could set us back a season or two and no club wants a losing culture.
Agree about Walker, Jenkins, Douglas - THEY NEED TO GO (maybe add Eddie to that list).... Kelly has gone up a new level this year.... B Crouch can only work with the flogs he has around him.... even if we had the best mid field in the world, it wouldn't do much good if the forward line CAN'T KICK GOALS to save themselves!!!
 

FR0GGY

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I look at Sloane last night. Started with a hard tag from SPP. He was buffeted, blocked, pushed, shoved you name it.

Nothing from his team mates, no support, no nothing. And nothing from the coach. No move to shake the tag.

He was just left to rot.

That’s where we’re at
It’s been that way for years.
 

marty36

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So as the tittle of the thread says

Is the list overrated

2017 saw us at our peak and the players we had inform like Tex Talia Jacobs Douglas Betts JJ Sloane Lever Cameron Gov Smith Laird

Either have aged or just lost form without that quality around them playng well

If this is the case, we have been poor in our replacements IE recruiting

Are the crouch boys the answer in the mid or as suggested they are accumulators

We seriously have let the forward line suffer

And defence has become a lose third man ups paradise

If as the title suggests the list has been misread, who is too blame
 

Elite Crow

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So as the tittle of the thread says

Is the list overrated

2017 saw us at our peak and the players we had inform like Tex Talia Jacobs Douglas Betts JJ Sloane Lever Cameron Gov Smith Laird

Either have aged or just lost form without that quality around them playng well

If this is the case, we have been poor in our replacements IE recruiting

Are the crouch boys the answer in the mid or as suggested they are accumulators

We seriously have let the forward line suffer

And defence has become a lose third man ups paradise

If as the title suggests the list has been misread, who is too blame
Classic Marty.

You’ve just rattled off 12 players and you expect any list to have 12 in reserve.

3 of those players were drafted by the guy you want to bag but the club couldn’t keep them.

Perhaps we could be playing the 5 players we lost in the Tippett penalties who would be in their prime.

That’s now 8 players from the 12.

Perhaps we could blame the selection committee who refer to play previously competitive but now over the hill senior players instead of our youth, you know the ones you continue to support their selection.

And the defence hasn’t become a loose thirds man up paradise, but it’s ok you can say his name, he’s called Doedee but he’s currently injured, so you are right Burton did play better than him on the weekend.
 

Elite Crow

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What is clear is how badly our club has f’ed up our chances.

5 quality picks lost due to Tippetgate. These guys would all be about 25-26 in their prime. Douglas and Mackay for starters wouldn’t be playing on the weekend.

Then from our 2017 side we’ve lost another 3 players who would also be in their prime, Lever, Gov and Charlie.

Then throw in basically the best player in the comp in Danger who we couldn’t keep.

Then we give away 2 firsts for Gibbs.

Plus we can’t attract anyone worth getting.

Chuck in the boys club appointment in Burton who f’ed our chance at redemption in 18.

We then have a football department filled with mostly slops, the best we can give our forward line is Ben Hart.

Off field we are a basket case if you don’t count baseball teams and esport.
 

marty36

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What is clear is how badly our club has f’ed up our chances.

5 quality picks lost due to Tippetgate. These guys would all be about 25-26 in their prime. Douglas and Mackay for starters wouldn’t be playing on the weekend.

Then from our 2017 side we’ve lost another 3 players who would also be in their prime, Lever, Gov and Charlie.

Then throw in basically the best player in the comp in Danger who we couldn’t keep.

Then we give away 2 firsts for Gibbs.

Plus we can’t attract anyone worth getting.

Chuck in the boys club appointment in Burton who f’ed our chance at redemption in 18.

We then have a football department filled with mostly slops, the best we can give our forward line is Ben Hart.

Off field we are a basket case if you don’t count baseball teams and esport.

Are we picking the wrong players if they are leaving and are flight risks

Should we concentrate on SA talent like Burton over Doedee or Graham over Pohlkoke

You are better looking in your own backyard before taking the risk of another flight risk
 

Crowbots are dead

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Crows list imo is better than Port's.

Most independent judges say the same.

Give Kenny his dues, he has played the younger guys where most of ours have been in the sanfl. Most supporters would like more given a go at the expense of the likes of Douglas & Mackay as the talent is there, just on display in the sanfl rather the afl. Hence we are top in the wrong competition.
I agree but I do think that they have nailed the last 2 drafts and are rapidly improving.
 

Crow_Magnon

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It's interesting to see our cross-town rivals have, out of necessity mind you, tended to stick with the selection of their younger recruits, such as Rozee, Duursma, etc., where we have sent Jones back to the SANFL, and left him there for a good period, similar to the likes of Fogarty last year. If we are to progress this year, these players need to be backed in at the highest level - it's no point us being top of the SANFL. We need the exuberance of these younger guys in the AFL team - especially whilst we have some experienced heads still there. They add an energy and unpredictability to the side that is harder to plan for and negate.

Wrong thread - but I'd like to see Eddie 'managed' this week also (dropped actually, but we can't say that about a legend), and Douglas and Mackay omitted, as they are not going to take us to a flag. Bring in Jones, Stengle and Knight (or even Jordon Butts who's shown something this year). Perfect week to change the order of things, and get some vim and energy back into the side.
 

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marty36

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What is clear is how badly our club has f’ed up our chances.

5 quality picks lost due to Tippetgate. These guys would all be about 25-26 in their prime. Douglas and Mackay for starters wouldn’t be playing on the weekend.

Then from our 2017 side we’ve lost another 3 players who would also be in their prime, Lever, Gov and Charlie.

Then throw in basically the best player in the comp in Danger who we couldn’t keep.

Then we give away 2 firsts for Gibbs.

Plus we can’t attract anyone worth getting.

Chuck in the boys club appointment in Burton who f’ed our chance at redemption in 18.

We then have a football department filled with mostly slops, the best we can give our forward line is Ben Hart.

Off field we are a basket case if you don’t count baseball teams and esport.

Yes we have lost 4 quality players who wanted to leave, will we lose more Gooch, Ned,Jones maybe, was there talent that would unlikely leave available at the time. could we have packaged up some draft picks to get the SA talent, so many unanswered questions

Will the crouches pack up at the end of their next contract

I think the question nees to be asked what is the best way to keep your list together, the answer is pretty damn obvious isn't it?

Should we go on the attack after Francis Luko Rankine, maybe Burton but hes already here unfortunately
 

harryharlow

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It’s been that way for years.
I agree.... it still surprises me that Sloanie decided to sign up with us again... he deserves better....how many times is he one of the few playing his guts out whilst the other do little or nothing??? If he leaves I wouldn't blame him
 

marty36

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It's interesting to see our cross-town rivals have, out of necessity mind you, tended to stick with the selection of their younger recruits, such as Rozee, Duursma, etc., where we have sent Jones back to the SANFL, and left him there for a good period, similar to the likes of Fogarty last year. If we are to progress this year, these players need to be backed in at the highest level - it's no point us being top of the SANFL. We need the exuberance of these younger guys in the AFL team - especially whilst we have some experienced heads still there. They add an energy and unpredictability to the side that is harder to plan for and negate.

Wrong thread - but I'd like to see Eddie 'managed' this week also (dropped actually, but we can't say that about a legend), and Douglas and Mackay omitted, as they are not going to take us to a flag. Bring in Jones, Stengle and Knight (or even Jordon Butts who's shown something this year). Perfect week to change the order of things, and get some vim and energy back into the side.

Port are playing their youth and cleary have no expectation to win a flag this year

That is the mindset we need to take for sure, but how would the supporter base react

Go read Ports board this year, it has been scathing
 

Scrogdogg

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May 29, 2018
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The issue is a lack of competitive tension at the club. Always has been. There is no change agent at the club to challenge the status quo. This is a board level issue, and it permeates the club all the way down to the playing group.

If ever you wanted examples, you only have to look at selection. Selection is just the visible example of every facet of the club. Its not that blokes don't want to succeed, or arent working hard enough. Its just that some just aren't the right people. The problem is, theres noone at each level of the club assigned or willing to make those observations and act accordingly.

That's why we continue to get the same outcomes.
YES. And the bulk of AFC followers (almost said supporters) just roll along with what happens, whereas clubs like port cry for blood and at least they get to feel that things are trying to be changed.
 

Scrogdogg

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I like Don but he isn’t the most inspiring man on the planet. And that’s fine, not every coach has to be that motivational, walk-over-hot-coals sort of leader like Jack Cahill, but if it isn’t their forte they do have to surround themselves with at least a few like that.

Our assistant coaches are possibly the most uninspiring bunch of human beings ever assembled in a group. With Hart, Camporeale and Clarke leading the charge of Club Bland.

Throw in Brett Birdbrain as footy department head and I’m surprised some of our guys stay the fu** awake at West Lakes, let alone get inspired.
Yes, it's the club, not the coach.
 

Crow_Magnon

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Port are playing their youth and cleary have no expectation to win a flag this year

That is the mindset we need to take for sure, but how would the supporter base react

Go read Ports board this year, it has been scathing
Fair points. Some will say they're blooding these guys too soon, and they'll suffer burn-out / injuries, but in my view, they're just as likely to get those in the SANFL. Agree that our supporter base would likely self-implode, but it's also evident that we can't simply go back to same-old, same-old selections. Pyke seems to be very much risk-averse, Craig MkII - whereas, in my view I think we need someone who is prepared to take a risk, and isn't afraid to upset the apple-cart. As another poster suggested - let's try and get Bassett back to the club, clean-out the whole panel, especially the likes of Camporeale, who seem to make the same mistakes time and again.
 

Elite Crow

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Are we picking the wrong players if they are leaving and are flight risks

Should we concentrate on SA talent like Burton over Doedee or Graham over Pohlkoke

You are better looking in your own backyard before taking the risk of another flight risk
Each one needs to be on its merits. They obviously had concerns over Burtons knee, even Burton mentioned his knee and the impact the China trip potentially could have had on it. Plus Doedee is a quality player.

But you only have to look at what a SA State of origin side would like to see how average it would be.

Plus it’s up to the club to retain its players, all 3 would have said the right things when drafted. Lever was gushing, Cameron was a rookie who would have been grateful to just be drafted as for Gov who knows how he came across.
 

Elite Crow

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Port are playing their youth and cleary have no expectation to win a flag this year

That is the mindset we need to take for sure, but how would the supporter base react

Go read Ports board this year, it has been scathing
They want to pick more youth, their issue has been Hinkleys s**t coaching.
 

Peter J

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Each one needs to be on its merits. They obviously had concerns over Burtons knee, even Burton mentioned his knee and the impact the China trip potentially could have had on it. Plus Doedee is a quality player.

But you only have to look at what a SA State of origin side would like to see how average it would be.

Plus it’s up to the club to retain its players, all 3 would have said the right things when drafted. Lever was gushing, Cameron was a rookie who would have been grateful to just be drafted as for Gov who knows how he came across.
To an extent we have to back ourselves with drafting. Luring players home via a trade seems the only course of attack post draft.

Horror performance at last year’s draft when so much SA talent was there. Port started off with a worse hand than us but smashed us, getting ahead at every pick.
 

marty36

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Fair points. Some will say they're blooding these guys too soon, and they'll suffer burn-out / injuries, but in my view, they're just as likely to get those in the SANFL. Agree that our supporter base would likely self-implode, but it's also evident that we can't simply go back to same-old, same-old selections. Pyke seems to be very much risk-averse, Craig MkII - whereas, in my view I think we need someone who is prepared to take a risk, and isn't afraid to upset the apple-cart. As another poster suggested - let's try and get Bassett back to the club, clean-out the whole panel, especially the likes of Camporeale, who seem to make the same mistakes time and again.
Like Ken has done this year and there are 6 threads calling for his head
 

GreyCrow

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Like drafting when it's line ball the comment is usually go for the home grown talent.

I don't have a problem with that. Yet it doesn't transfer to our selection.

Jones v Douglas, I pick Jones in 2019

And etc
 

marty36

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To an extent we have to back ourselves with drafting. Luring players home via a trade seems the only course of attack post draft.

Horror performance at last year’s draft when so much SA talent was there. Port started off with a worse hand than us but smashed us, getting ahead at every pick.
Port were hell aggresive at swapping picks to up the order, will it pay off?

Is our best option to have say 4 SA guns who as with Danger takes slightly unders to play at Geelong

Leaving more cap room to hold onto some Vic talent

It happened many moons ago when we won a couple of flags but look at the SA boys in those years, Goodwin, Roo, Modra, Edwards, Mcleod defs SA, Bond, Koster Rehn Pitman Jameson, Hart, Robran, jarman smart bickley Sampson, vardy james marsh

That's 19 SA players
 

marty36

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Like drafting when it's line ball the comment is usually go for the home grown talent.

I don't have a problem with that. Yet it doesn't transfer to our selection.

Jones v Douglas, I pick Jones in 2019

And etc
No it doesn't its mindset

Port are playing youth with no expectation of a flag

Do we take the same attitude

Jones clearly showed he struggles at AFL level ATM, douglas is proven but needs to find form like TEx, talia and Betts need to find form
 
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