Who is better, Beinke or Richardson??

[QT]

Both players were sorta SANFL Full Forward champs, having a last shot at AFL, which one do you prefer??

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"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by QT:
Both players were sorta SANFL Full Forward champs, having a last shot at AFL, which one do you prefer??

Well your wrong about Beinke!!! Last shot at AFL...when he joined the crows he was only 23. He went to North in 97 as a rookie list player. When he came back to port in 98, he started the first part of the year in his natural normal position as a back pocket, until they put him forward where he blossomed. I wouldnt say he was a full forward champ!! Far from it. At the end of the 1999 season he had played 61 games for 64 goals, i wouldnt call that fantastic. He played half a year at centre half forward for port where he seemed to blossom. He ended up winning the best and fairest award.

That out the way...Beinke when he played last year, showed a damn lot of promise in the forward lines, its a pity he got benched a lot and got injured just as much. He is inconcsistent, even at SANFL level, but that said, id rather him at f ull forward than richardson.

 

[QT]

Thanx Mr. Macca

Beinke to me is at his best at FF. I just thought these players had similar scenarios in gettin onto an AFL list.

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

 

[Crows.ok]

Frankly Macca, given some of the opinions on players you have sprouted in the past, and in particular your assesment of players on Crows list relative to players with any association at all with Port, its plain that your opinion on such a topic simply doesn't count.

Crows will assess their options for the best player at full forward. The will pick the player with the best form.

At the moment, the only thing to go on is the relative form of these two in SANFL company. On this basis, Richardson (even overweight) would be a better option than Bienke. Just going on SANFL returns. As soon as this changes, Crows preferred selection would change.

I'd be very interested to know how you can support a view that Bienke would be a better bet at FF when Richardson has outscored Bienke when both played that position at the same time in SANFL. Do try to support you opinion with something other than ... I like the look of this player better than that player.

We all well know by now how absolutely wonky your judgement of players actually is, Macca.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Frankly Macca, given some of the opinions on players you have sprouted in the past, and in particular your assesment of players on Crows list relative to players with any association at all with Port, its plain that your opinion on such a topic simply doesn't count.

Crows will assess their options for the best player at full forward. The will pick the player with the best form.

At the moment, the only thing to go on is the relative form of these two in SANFL company. On this basis, Richardson (even overweight) would be a better option than Bienke. Just going on SANFL returns. As soon as this changes, Crows preferred selection would change.

I'd be very interested to know how you can support a view that Bienke would be a better bet at FF when Richardson has outscored Bienke when both played that position at the same time in SANFL. Do try to support you opinion with something other than ... I like the look of this player better than that player.

We all well know by now how absolutely wonky your judgement of players actually is, Macca.

Ok Smartarse. Seeing as you and everyone else thinks Richardson is the next best thing...we shall see how he goes. We all know your completly bias thru on things.

For a start dickhead, get things right. Beinke has not played a lot of football at full forward at Port Adelaide. He has played probably 1 1/2 games there. He is a forward pocket or half forward. Check the statistics if you do not believe. But then again what would i know, ive only been to 90% of port magpies games in the alst 4 yeares, how many would you of gone to...3? 4?? In 98 he kicked 39 goals. He started the year as a BACK POCKET...he got drafted to north melbourne as a BACK POCKET, he won a premirship medallion at port in 96 playing in a BACK POCKET. He moved to the forward lines about 2 weeks before the state game which he dominated against WA. He then proceeded to play the rest of the year at Port as a flanker, CHF or forward pocket...not as the main forward option. Hodges, Evans and Phillipou were the main full forwards in 98. On this form he got drafted to the crows. As a hlaf forward. He is too short for a full forward at AFL level. So you are wrong. Richardson has not outscored Beinke at FF, as Beinke has rarely played there.

Beinke has tasted AFL action for two years and has performed reasonably well there. Richardson has not...has slightly dominated a SANFL competition and holds the record as least amount of goals to win the KF Medal.

Tell me crows.ok, tell me what judgements on players are wrong?? You may well think every player on your list is brownlow material, but from outside your blue red and yellow eyes, noone else does.

Beinke is a stronger mark, is quicker, has a better, smarter football brain than richardson. You know there is a problem when richardson ends up at half back for the crows against west coast!! The coach isnt impressed at his lack of effort. As is said, you can train the house down all yo ulike but noone gives a **** how good you look in training. Port supporters know this with Lyle...he wins everything at training, but is useless. Same to be said with Richardson. He is slow, fat, not a strong mark and looks lost so far at AFL level, and does not chase or put in for second efforts.

All in all, I would have Beinke up there even if he isnt a FF, i think Richardson will start there and play most of the year there, but i cant see him doing very well at all. 40 goals max. Beinke is better played on a flank anyway, or a floating forward.

 

[carb70]

Your best option at FF is that guy who plays at Fremantle, but as we all know that coach who promised to leave your team in a good position for the future but instead jumped the sinking ship deceided it was a good idea not to have Modra around.

As far as Richardson goes he is an abosolute joke and Beinke just isn't a key position player. Beinke is best suited in the pocket or the flank were he can run around and take marks he is not a key target who is going to lead out and take marks. So in other words you are in trouble. Every team that has won back to back premierships in the last 30 years has won another premiership within 8 years but thanks to Malcolm that will not happen at Crowland. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by carb70:
Every team that has won back to back premierships in the last 30 years has won another premiership within 8 years but thanks to Malcolm that will not happen at Crowland. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Carb, these words ring a bell???

"I remember walking out of Football Park that day amused at the at the pathetic looks the Crows supporters had on their faces some were even close to tears. No Crow supporter would of predicted that day that within 18 months you would have 2 premierships.

So just lose that we are better than you attitude because it doesn't take much to turn a season from disater to glory. "

Your words Carb. That second paragraph should be redirected at you. You better lose that attitude buddy cause an Ansett Cup Grand Final doesn't make your season. And the Crows could very well win a another premiership soon, which of course you so readily dismiss. I'd back us to win one over your mob any day.

 

[carb70]

Ant does this mean anything to you,

1.Darren Jarman 34 years of age
2.Nigel Smart 32
3.Matthew Robran 30
4.Mark Bickley 32
5.Shaun Rehn Hawthorn
6.Tony Modra Fremantle
7.Peter Caven Retired
8.Pathetic Pittman Retired
9.Johnson and Burton can't put 2 games together without getting injured
10.No quality ruckmen
11.No quality fowards
12.Recruting in recent years has been poor
13.Coach is Gary Ayers not Malcolm Blight

 

[ant]

In reply to your post Carb

Four old players isn't too bad, I wouldn't regard them, except Robran maybe, as key players.

Rehn was over the hill, good riddance. Modra can't kick a goal with Freo so far this year, however would have liked to have gotten more for him.

Caven and Pittman have been well and truly replaced, no worries there.

As for Johnson and Burton, Johnson has put a couple of games together so far this year, and Burton had one year (last year) completely disrupted by injuries. Just wait and see. Like a Port fan can talk......

Our ruck trio of Clarke, Biglands and Marsh is favourable with any in the competition. Granted, them don't dominate around the ground but very good at centre bounces. I'll take them over a combo of Primus and French.

Forward area is far from a strength, agreed, but with our quality midfield kicking goals themselves, I'm sure a mix of Robran, Jarman, Hewitt, Richo, Vardy, Burton, Bode, Welsh can kick enough goals. In 1998 we didn't really have a key forward either, Jarman best with 45 or so.

Ayres isn't the best but is serviceable. Malcolm Blight he is not, but he's not Mark Williams either.

I could come up with a list twice as long for Port but I'm just off to have dinner.

 

[Crows.ok]

Originally posted by ant:
In reply to your post Carb

Four old players isn't too bad, I wouldn't regard them, except Robran maybe, as key players.

Rehn was over the hill, good riddance. Modra can't kick a goal with Freo so far this year, however would have liked to have gotten more for him.

Caven and Pittman have been well and truly replaced, no worries there.

As for Johnson and Burton, Johnson has put a couple of games together so far this year, and Burton had one year (last year) completely disrupted by injuries. Just wait and see. Like a Port fan can talk......

Our ruck trio of Clarke, Biglands and Marsh is favourable with any in the competition. Granted, them don't dominate around the ground but very good at centre bounces. I'll take them over a combo of Primus and French.

Forward area is far from a strength, agreed, but with our quality midfield kicking goals themselves, I'm sure a mix of Robran, Jarman, Hewitt, Richo, Vardy, Burton, Bode, Welsh can kick enough goals. In 1998 we didn't really have a key forward either, Jarman best with 45 or so.

Ayres isn't the best but is serviceable. Malcolm Blight he is not, but he's not Mark Williams either.

I could come up with a list twice as long for Port but I'm just off to have dinner.

This is about the size of it, ant.

Macca: If one player gets more goals than another, then the forst has otscored the other. By definition. If Richo is the Ken Farmer medalist, then he is the top scorer in the SANFL. By definition, regardless if that total is lower than in other years. If Bienke's own SANFL club won't play him at FF, why the heck should Crows play him there over a bloke who is a FF? Note for the terminally stupid: this does not mean Crows should not play Bienke. It means only that he is not as good a choice at FF as Richo. Or probably even Bassett, who seems to be the next in line if Richo doesn't come up to standard. Not Bienke.

Even if Richo plays at his current erratic unproductive rate, 5 goals in his last two games, that would be 50 for the year. Thats a lot better than Ports best goalscorer last year.

Carb70: It is possible to make a list of negatives for Crows. Even Sheehan in the Herald Sun has had a go at it, but like you got it mostly wrong. It is also possible to make positives out of those negatives. For instance, you are not self-consistent if you try to make a negative out of some older players still in the squad (Jarman, Bickley etc) and also make a negative out of other older players having retired (Pittman, Caven). Thats trying to have your cake and eat it.

McGregor this year at CHB will be an improvement (and hence a positive) over Caven in 99 and 2000. Clarke will be better at the ruck taps (but less useful around the ground) than Rehn, and will be less disruptive of team harmony. Crowell looks set for a real positive contribution this year at FB, more so than he was able to contribute last year as a rookie at FF. Hewitt and/or Robran will be a better option at CHF than was McGregor last year. And so on.

Perhaps Ayres (or maybe he got help from Craig) is not such a dud if he can re-cast some players in new roles and gain improvement thereby.

With luck Burton and Johnson (and Stevens for that matter) should be able to play more games than last year, it would be drastically unlucky to miss as many this year as well.

As I say ... it all depends on how you look at it.

But I must say, it does get a bit tiresome having Port dunderheads repeatedly come on this board and bag Crows. Haven't you got anything better to do, like lust after a practice cup or something?

Nah, your lot will probably be the runners up, and suffer the runners up curse. Justice!

 

[QT]

crows ok, thanks for your essay

LOL

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by ant:
In reply to your post Carb


Our ruck trio of Clarke, Biglands and Marsh is favourable with any in the competition. Granted, them don't dominate around the ground but very good at centre bounces. I'll take them over a combo of Primus and French.

Sorry ant but cant agree with this. It was the ruck division of Primus and French against Biglands and Clarke that dominated you in the last showdown last year, and that ruck division also dominated against you in the first showdown as well. Primus is one of the best all round ruckmen in the league, Frnech is average, add Lade and that would be one of the best in the league.

Clarke - used to be the best ruckmen in teh league cum 1995...last year coulda been the worst year by a ruckmen ever...he CAN play a LOT better.
Biglands - played admirably last year, but wondering if he can handle being number 1 ruckmen

Marsh - dont make me laugh!!! One good game does not make a good player. He has shown NOTHING for three years...he is struggling at West Adelaide and will struggle to make their league side let alone the crows.

Replace Marsh with maybe Robran then its a fair ruck division. I would NOT say up there with the best in the league, but mid table for sure.

 

[Guest]

Back to the original topic, The aspect of our forward play that annoyed me most last year was the ease with which opposition defenders were able to body our forwards our of contests, take easy marks and run the ball out. This was also a big problem against Carlton in the AC this year.

The big benefit of having Richo up forward is that hopefully he will have the strength to compete for most of the balls coming in and if he doesn't mark, at least he can bring the ball to ground and give Bode, Vardy, Welsh and co. an opportunity.

I would love to know the percentage of times we entered the forward 50 against the number of scoring shots last year. It would be pitiful.

If Richo can kick around 50-60 goals and create extra opportunities then he would have been well worth it.

 

[carb70]

Ant, Clarke, Biglands and Marsh put together don't come anywhere near Primus. Primus is a workhorse and he will bust his guts all day if he has to.

Crowsok, it not a list of negatives, its a list of facts. I wasn't having a go at these players. I was just stating the ages of these players because they have been the backbone of your side for many years and I was just wondering who the replacements will be in the years to come.

Finally I think its a disgrace the way you guys play down the fact Rehn has left your club and how its not a big loss, especially ant saying he was over the hill , good riddance. Rehn was your greatest ever player and without him you wouldn't have won your 2 premierships. I would glady have Rehn in my team at Port any day.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by Spogs:


The big benefit of having Richo up forward is that hopefully he will have the strength to compete for most of the balls coming in and if he doesn't mark, at least he can bring the ball to ground and give Bode, Vardy, Welsh and co. an opportunity.

I would love to know the percentage of times we entered the forward 50 against the number of scoring shots last year. It would be pitiful.

If Richo can kick around 50-60 goals and create extra opportunities then he would have been well worth it.

Spogs how can you expect Richo to kick 50-60 goals in the AFL. He will be lucky to kick between 20-30 goals at that level.

He didn't even dominate at SANFL level where he was bigger and stronger than most fullbacks. How do you expect him to go against guys in the AFL who are just as big and as storng if not more bigger and stronger than him.

 

[Guest]

Carb,

I can't remember seing Richo play SANFL so I'm only going on what I've been told. He can obviously kick a goal as the leading SANFL goalkicker for the past three years. Beinke is not a genuine full forward although I do like him in the side.

We picked Richo to kick goals this year. I didn't say I think he will nessesarily, but for the crows to half a half decent year I think he has to.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by carb70:
Ant, Clarke, Biglands and Marsh put together don't come anywhere near Primus. Primus is a workhorse and he will bust his guts all day if he has to.

Crowsok, it not a list of negatives, its a list of facts. I wasn't having a go at these players. I was just stating the ages of these players because they have been the backbone of your side for many years and I was just wondering who the replacements will be in the years to come.

Finally I think its a disgrace the way you guys play down the fact Rehn has left your club and how its not a big loss, especially ant saying he was over the hill , good riddance. Rehn was your greatest ever player and without him you wouldn't have won your 2 premierships. I would glady have Rehn in my team at Port any day.

The fact is Carb that after 3 knee reconstructions Rehn isn't the same player, especially with the last injury being to his jumping leg. I can't see him getting back to his former glory and the young ruck trio I mentioned is a better bet than some an aging champion who's lost it (Bode will be handy too). Now Rehn wanted to leave Adelaide, it was his choice, so I say good riddance. If he doesn't want to play for our great club then fine, go somewhere else. He WAS a champion player for the Crows but times change. And by the way, any number of players were just as integral to our premiership years, I don't think Rehn was the main reason for us winning the flag. One of the reasons, but not the absolute key factor.

As for Primus, I congratulate him on his work ethic but worth three players?? Get stuffed!! He's not highly skilled (actually he's unco) and tires just like anybody. To say he's better than Marsh, Clarke and Biglands combined is ludicrous. However, you're entitled to your opinion so you and your Port buddies can think what you want.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by ant:

Rehn isn't the same player, I can't see him getting back to his former glory and the young ruck trio I mentioned is a better bet than some an aging champion who's lost it

As for Primus, I congratulate him on his work ethic but worth three players?? Get stuffed!! He's not highly skilled (actually he's unco) and tires just like anybody. To say he's better than Marsh, Clarke and Biglands combined is ludicrous.

The first part of the quote up above sounds a lot like Jarman doesnt it! Minus the ruck bit! Yet you still persist with him, and i would say Jarmans skill level would be on par with Rehns.

The second thing...yes Primus has a very unorthodox kicking style, but it is effective. And its not like the crows cant talk. The s**t ability of their big men has been funny at times. Patterson, Bartlett, Pittman and Biglands. Biglands isnt half as skillful as primus.
I wouldnt say Primus is better than Marsh Clarke and Biglands...But i would much rather JUST have Primus that a highly overrated ruckmen/forward who played one good game in 3 years (Marsh) and Biglands who has some potential.
Clarke and Primus would be a reasonable duo, and a lot better than Clarke Marsh Biglands.

 

[Crows.ok]

Originally posted by carb70:
Ant, Clarke, Biglands and Marsh put together don't come anywhere near Primus. Primus is a workhorse and he will bust his guts all day if he has to.

carb70 this is over the top. Primus is better than Clarke, Biglands or Marsh but not better than all three. If Primus gets an injury, even the flu for a week, there is one game that Port will likely lose that they might have won. At least with Crows three ruckmen there is some chance of a second option.

Crowsok, it not a list of negatives, its a list of facts. I wasn't having a go at these players. I was just stating the ages of these players because they have been the backbone of your side for many years and I was just wondering who the replacements will be in the years to come.

It sure read like an attempt at a list of negatives. But as my reply said, each of the elements of your list has a replacement. McGregor at CHB for Caven. Clarke for Rehn (we lose a bit here compared with Rehns best form, but we don't lose anything compared with his form last year). Biglands for Pittman. And so on. Each of the items on the list has a replacement, and this year a better option than the same position last year.

Finally I think its a disgrace the way you guys play down the fact Rehn has left your club and how its not a big loss, especially ant saying he was over the hill , good riddance. Rehn was your greatest ever player and without him you wouldn't have won your 2 premierships. I would glady have Rehn in my team at Port any day.

Rehn at his best was a champion. Don't forget that Crows invested a great deal of loyalty into Rehn, at least as much as he repaid Crows. Rehn was carried by Crows through three knee reconstructions and a very unproductive year last year. Then he walked out.

There is a certain amount of give and take involved here, and by no means was in Rehn who did all the give. And its not the Crows who lacked any loyalty in the final analysis. I don't say good riddance to Rehn (even though Rehn effectively said that to Crows), but I do note that Crows don't lose a lot from last years performances with his moving on to another club.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Clarke for Rehn (we lose a bit here compared with Rehns best form, but we don't lose anything compared with his form last year).

Well how can you say this?? Rehn, altho he played badly last year, still played about 10 times better than what Clarke did last year!! Your talls are a problem...Biglands would be first choice, Clarke IF he can produce half a good as year as he had in brisbane for a few years he will be great...Marsh isnt worth two lumps of crap. If you lose one...then there is a hole. Unless Angwin proves something.

 

[Crows.ok]

Originally posted by Macca19:
Well how can you say this?? Rehn, altho he played badly last year, still played about 10 times better than what Clarke did last year!! Your talls are a problem...Biglands would be first choice, Clarke IF he can produce half a good as year as he had in brisbane for a few years he will be great...Marsh isnt worth two lumps of crap. If you lose one...then there is a hole. Unless Angwin proves something.

Its easy. Rehn last year was not playing well, but nevertheless better than Clarke was. Last year Clarke was a dead loss.

Clarke this year is playing better (at the moment anyway) than was Rehn last year.

Whats so difficult about that? It shouldn't be too hard to grasp, even for someone who is slow on the uptake.

I typed it slowly so you could read it OK, Macca.

 

[ant]

Macca, Rehn's skill level on a par with Jarman?? That's poor judgement even for yourself. It's so senseless I'm not even going to talk about it anymore.

Our talls will be a strength this year I reckon, Clarke back to his best, Biglands improving, Marsh handy backup. What happens if Primus goes down?? French will have to lead the ruck. And the Crows have problems with our talls.

You could be relying on a rower to be your ruckman!!! Sure it's all hypothetical but we've got no problems with our tall men and plenty of depth. But thanks for your input though Macca, most insightful.

Crows.ok, typing it slowly helps, but you really musn't use too large words, it only confuses them.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Clarke this year is playing better (at the moment anyway) than was Rehn last year.

Whats so difficult about that? It shouldn't be too hard to grasp, even for someone who is slow on the uptake.

I typed it slowly so you could read it OK, Macca.

For a start you never mentioned ONCE before that Clarke was playing better than rehn was last year. You show me where you wrote that and i will apologise for being ignorant.
Please, dont mention my intelligence level again. You do not know me, and have no idea how intelligent i am

 

[CrowGaz]

I think(hope) that Richo will do well this year, as long as he can remain injury free. He has a strong physical presence, something that Adelaide have missed in the past few years.
But, he does seem to be a bit of a confidence player, when he's up he can be very good, but when he's down, you may as well forget him.
I hope he's given a reasonable chance this year and hope he does well.

Go The Crows!

Don't forget to visit my Crows site: http://go.to/adelaidecrows

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by ant:

As for Primus, I congratulate him on his work ethic but worth three players?? Get stuffed!! He's not highly skilled (actually he's unco) and tires just like anybody. To say he's better than Marsh, Clarke and Biglands combined is ludicrous. However, you're entitled to your opinion so you and your Port buddies can think what you want.

Ant if I was offered Marsh, Clarke and Biglands in a trade for Primus I would never accept it not in a million years. To say he is not highly skilled is a bit stupid. Just because he has a awkward kicking style it doesn't mean he is not skilled. Infact his skill level has greatly improved over the years, he is a much better mark and kick now than he used to be . He is also capable of runnig foward now and being marking and goalkicking target in our foward lines. Finally I don't know any other ruckman in the league that has the same level of fitness and strength as Primus and for a big man his evasive skills and his ability to break takles is exceptional.

[This message has been edited by carb70 (edited 16 March 2001).]